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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 66 post(s)
The-Errorist 967	Posted - 2015.01.25 19:16:00 - [1] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ... Second, "we don't have PRO tanks". If you had really tried to understand the concept of the bring back initative, it was to create ADV and PRO hulls, that would be able to fit their hulls closer to how dropsuits progress through std-pro. Again, my fits demonstrate exactly how far from HAV pilots are from being able to do that with current hulls and skills. ... 4. Those fits are terrible - Aswell as being correct it would have also helped your PG/CPU problems if you put back in some core skills and also some missing modules which also help with your PG/CPU problem but instead you are working with one hand tied behind your back and not using all availible options 5. PRO tanks - Currently again your spreadsheet is still working with the 3/2 slot layout - Even old HAVs were 7 slots and Marauders were 8 so until the spreadsheet is updated with increase slots for ADV/PRO tanks they never will be, it will be just tiercide with the same cookie cutter fits but more of an SP sink ... I very much appreciate the spreadsheet. The tone of this reply is more or less, however, much of the same, case in point 4 and 5 indicate willful misunderstanding. If you ever get banned it will be for breaking the forum rules, but you don't need to be banned to be ignored. My hope is that you can find a constructive way to post and help vehicle users. 1. Until something changes and that change is on the positive side of things the replies will always be the same 4/5. Im still seeing 3/2 on a PRO HAV in your spreadsheet and nothing about modules and skills - Until that changes i will call it as i see it and you will call my comment a willful misunderstanding Sigh From the OP CCP Rattato wrote: Phase 1 1) Introduce ADV and PRO HAVs that only progress in PG/CPU, therefore being able to fit higher tiered gear, making fitting optimizations necessary as well. Adding slots to the progression is not an option. ... 3) All PG/CPU calculations will be based on the math of determined PG/CPU per slot, much like was done with Sentinels and Assaults a few months ago. Therefore, the turret PG/CPU will be factored "in" to the HAV capacity. ... MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 967	Posted - 2015.01.25 20:30:00 - [2] - Quote Are you ever going to add a militia large missile turret? Why aren't missile turrets called rockets turrets? Here's some spreadsheet related feedback: HAV tab The Short description for the U & DHAVs say "Side grade to MBT" instead of "Side grade from MBT" which implies that it sidegrading into an MBT. On the skills section by the DHAV skills you have a fitting bonus to railguns and on vehicle modules tab under Tentative Steps you have "Enforcers do NOT get fitting bonus to Rails". On Step 2 Modules you have the typo "ACtive" Can the spool up and tracking mods be for low slots and can new modules be added too, like a low slot shield regulator that reduces shield recharge delay by around 10/20/30% per tier? Also can you get shield booster to work? A lot of times they don't give any HP back. For the Large Turrets tab under the Random thoughts section, I would classify the turrets like this: Best to Worst Alpha Rail Missile Blaster and add a Bust section: Missile Railgun Blaster Lastly, can you say around what time will we get the racially re-purposed hulls? MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 967	Posted - 2015.01.25 21:10:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey Rattati full breakdowns of the AV capacity of the weapons is more or less done. I only have the nova knives and flaylock but after looking at the mass driver I'm going to go out on a limb and call bot weapons' AV capacity minimal. Good for a finisher though. I should be able to finish both of them in a few hours after I calculate the level 5 PG/CPU and splash for the mass driver. Spreadsheet link in signature. Cool, and appreciated. I have been thinking with the possible escalation of HAV strength, that MD and LR could be more useful against vehicles, and possibly IP and Flaylock as well. I'd only be ok with the the breach flaylocks, breach scrambler pistols, bolt pistols, and KN being able to hurt vehicles. Balancing the LR effectiveness as AV would be difficult and I would very much prefer having a heavy LR instead; however, I do support the MD performing better against vehicles. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 974	Posted - 2015.01.27 18:35:00 - [4] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: question, shield boosters in low? Given that similar to dropsuits, all vehicles get a slim natural rep, so as to not be forced to fit a rep mod in a low. For HAV's with more fitting options, my first instinct is sure why not. Dropships, it may a bit crippling, especially for Pythons. Seeing how much work is going into tanks, there is not alot of room for dropship changes . Moving it to a low would remove shield booster as an optional fitting on a python, or the incubus for that matter. It would leave the python with just one fit, Hardener, afterburner, extender in the highs and pg upgrade in the low. To make up for this perhaps we can leave the light shield boosters in the high and the heavy shield booster in the lows. Its not very symetrical, but it leaves the dropship pilots something until we get dropships PG and CPU sorted. If you ask me "what if dropships had the PG/ CPU fitting costs to fit a booster in the lows?", then yes, i'd be all for it. Also , passive vehicle reps? i like. I would really like to have heavy shield boosters to be low slots and the light ones to remain on the highs until a solution as made for Dropships and LAVs. I would also like passive armor repair for vehicles, I even made a thread/spreadsheet about passive vehicle regen, for shield and armor, a while back. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 976	Posted - 2015.01.27 21:42:00 - [5] - Quote I have a thread and spreadsheet on how I feel vehicle regen should be, please look at them. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 978	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:50:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: why isnt there a shield recharger module? i want that option of having full passive fit. im annoyed that armor can get better passive reps than shields. Um if you're talking about current values, you might want to check the math on that buddy. Currently the Gunnlogi's natural unmodified shield recharge is faster than a max skill complex armor rep. I want that to change and here's what I'd like it to be (from my thread/spreadsheet): (LAV and dropship stats in thread/spreadsheet) [HAVs]: Caldari: 110 HP/s Minmatar: 88 HP/s Amarr/Gallente: 66 HP/s I also want vehicles to have natural passive reps: [HAVs] Gallente: 25 HP/s Armarr & Minmatar: 22.5 HP/s Caldari: HAV: 20 HP/s If CCP does this, adds regulators, and rechargers, vehicle regen would be in a much more balanced state. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 979	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:37:00 - [7] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: The-Errorist wrote: ... I want that to change and here's what I'd like it to be (from my thread/spreadsheet): (LAV and dropship stats in thread/spreadsheet) [HAVs]: Caldari: 110 HP/s Minmatar: 88 HP/s Amarr/Gallente: 66 HP/s I also want vehicles to have natural passive reps: [HAVs] Gallente: 25 HP/s Armarr & Minmatar: 22.5 HP/s Caldari: HAV: 20 HP/s If CCP does this, adds regulators, and rechargers, vehicle regen would be in a much more balanced state. The armor tank shield reps should be 40, not 66 hp/s... That's like saying shield recharge for Am/gal assaults should be around 10 HP/s (instead of 20 HP/s), 36% less than Caldari's instead of the normal roughly 60%. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 979	Posted - 2015.01.29 02:22:00 - [8] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: The-Errorist wrote: ... I want that to change and here's what I'd like it to be (from my thread/spreadsheet): (LAV and dropship stats in thread/spreadsheet) [HAVs]: Caldari: 110 HP/s Minmatar: 88 HP/s Amarr/Gallente: 66 HP/s I also want vehicles to have natural passive reps: [HAVs] Gallente: 25 HP/s Armarr & Minmatar: 22.5 HP/s Caldari: HAV: 20 HP/s If CCP does this, adds regulators, and rechargers, vehicle regen would be in a much more balanced state. 110 hp/s is like a armor rep, along with armor repping shields at 66 hp/s... I don't know what your point is and what you mean by armor repping shields, so I'll try my best to reply to what you said. Yes 110 HP/s shield recharge rate is like a complex heavy armor rep and 66 HP/s shield recharge rate is in-between an advanced and complex light rep. I also said I want vehicles to have base armor repair and with that, vehicles with an armor rep can rep faster than base shield recharge. Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yep, I have raised the low slot issue in this thread and unfair fitting between ca and ga, and both heat sinks and disp modules work for rails and missiles, blaster can use both. There was a whole page of pure dmg mods that i just didnt get Perhaps I'm confused, but currently missiles pretty much hit where you aim. Are you adding in missile dispersion so they can make use of the dispersion reduction modules? Right now, the faster you fire the large missile turret, the more dispersion it gains. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 980	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:33:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any thoughts on the preliminary Hull numbers? Besides the feedback I gave on armor repair and shield recharge rates, I have these: It's not fair how Gallente tanks have more of their main tank to use than the Caldari, make it balanced like it is for Cal & Gal dropsuits. Caldari tanks have 36% (1,500) of their total HP (4,150) as armor and only 64% (2,650) as shields; I would like it to be the reverse ratio compared to Gallente tanks: ~23% (958) armor and ~77% (3192) shields. I still would like tanks to have 6 total slots instead of the current 5; 4/2 for Cal, 2/4 for Gal/AM, and 3/3 for Min. Lastly, the total HP, speed, PG/CPU, and other hull stats look fine. duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I currently do not see any numbers of the Natural Shield Regen Rate for the Gunnlogi. Do you intend to keep this as is, or change it? This is fairly important because 1. It's currently way too high, and 2. If it is lowered, many pilots will want to be able to boost this back up, and it may be preferential for a slot to be dedicated to a shield recharger or booster. Additionally I'm looking at what you have for bonuses. DHAV seems to imply that is has a +20% Large Turret Bonus, so I'll assume this is +4% a level which is reasonable. However the UHAV Bonus seems to have HP values associated with it but vary between each tier. Could you explain what the per-level bonus for that is supposed to me? The current regen is way to high on Gunnlogis. How, exactly? It has a 4 second recharge delay... He meant shield recharge rates not the delay. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 980	Posted - 2015.01.29 08:58:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: duster 35000 wrote: How, exactly? It has a 4 second recharge delay... because a gunnlogi has a full recovery from zero HP time of approximately 20 seconds. Without active mods or a FULLY realized passive regen setup It should take a similar amount of time to recover as it takes a dropsuit to run to a distant supply depot to resupply. I'm agreeing with rattati that less than 4 shot HAV kills should require a weakspot hit but with a super high regen we get to maintain the status quo that HAVs only need to hide for a few seconds before running back to continue behaving badly. What do u think of the numbers I gave for shield recharge rates and having innate armor repair? MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).

The-Errorist 982	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:31:00 - [11] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: H0riz0n Unlimit wrote: Armor hardner has a lower percentage of resistance and quite all AV weapon have bonus against armour so i think shield hardner is bettwr than armour hardner and if you have core vehicles upgrade maxed you recharge modules faster... There was talk of improving armor hardener, which I think makes sense, right now its only advantage is duration, but nerfing shield regen at the same time could squew tank battles. Doing any big change to vehicles will skew tank battles. Doc DDD wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I can't agree with much of that sorry, yes the gunlogi reps with no module. I agree. but the gunlogi can never get more reps the gunlogi has to wait 4 seconds to start getting reps and as per your spread sheet the one repping module on the Madrugar out reps all damage done to a similarly damaged gunlogi. While the base 'tank' of the Madrugar is also higher. I'm saying the strength of the passive reps is too strong. I'd love to add modules to increase the passive rep so that 1 module vs 1 module, the Gunnlogi would still rep faster than the Madrugar, instead of the 0 to 1 we have now. This would also allow the Gunnlogi to get more passive reps if it wanted. Do you think its unfair to require the Gunnlogi to use 1 passive module to beat the Madrugar's 1 passive module? Then we would need to look at - adding a 4 second delay to armor reps, - reduce starting armor level to the same as the starting level of the shield tanks - penalizing armor repair delays for every plate added. - remove any passive reps on the shields of armor tanks. This would make everything 'fair' , which seems to be your arguement. I don't want to homogenize armor and shield, they are both different and have different positives and negatives. 5 low slots is going to be huge for armor tanks, if they are repping faster than shields then I feel we have gone wrong somewhere. Your chart shows that even now, one armor repairer madrugar outreps a gunlogi and the madrugar has more hp. I wouldn't push for any of the above points as I wouldn't push for lower shield reps on the gunlogi. But if rattati sees something we don't then who am I to argue, as long as it makes sense. His chart does not show that on his chart, the max rep rate using an armor rep is 137.5 HP/s, the shield recharge rate for Gunnlogi is 168 HP/s. Also the bluegreen cells are the point where it would finish regenerating base HP and the sand colored cells are when it regened a typical HP fit. The Gunnlogi wins both (the 2nd by a longshot). Also his argument is about making things fair under normal shield/armor constraints and what you're suggesting wouldn't. What he, and many others feel is the most fair model for how things should work: Natural Shield Regen < Fitted Armor Armor Repair < Fitted Shield Regen. If we can't get to that point, I'm willing to compromise by reducing shield recharge rates by at least 18 HP/s, but still leaving them stronger than 1 complex heavy rep with max skills. Then rebalanced shield recharge rates on other race's tanks. One thing is clear though, base shield recharge on shield tanks is too high. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 982	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:37:00 - [12] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: ... With the recharge delay Gunlogis have on shields, if it takes any more than one low cost module to bring them to the same levels they are now and Madrugar hardeners get any love, then the instant repair of the armor repairer could get abused with 5 low slots. .... Madrugars wont get 5 low slots, 5 is the total high+low slots tanks have. Based on what's on the spreadsheet, they will probably get 1 high and 4 lows. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 983	Posted - 2015.01.30 18:44:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: ... From an EVE perspective, sure, but in Dust its the armor that reps constantly and the shields with a delay. I guess my point is that why do we need to make dropsuits and vehicles different? On a related note, Caldari and Gallente dropsuits in have the opposite % of armor as shields and for vehicles its not? The Madrugar has 23% of its total HP as shields and the rest of 77% as armor, but the Gunnlogi has 64% shields and 36% armor. It doesn't make sense why the madrugar has more of it's tank to use than the Caldari, especially since the Caldari's main focus is shields. The Cal tanks should have 23% armor and 77% shields, the reverse of what the Gallente has or this. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 984	Posted - 2015.01.30 19:00:00 - [14] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: Harpyja wrote: While the topic of regen is still floating about, why don't we look to EVE for ideas to implement into Dust? Generalized summary on shields in EVE: -Always passively recharging, though at a variable rate which is at a max around 30% shields -Shield recharge per ship is around a base time to full recharge ---This means that adding extenders increases the hp/s ---Allows for passive fits that rely only on resists and recharge rates while maintaining a large shield buffer -Active shield tanking draws a higher capacitor usage as opposed to active armor tanking ---Shield boosters and active hardeners are harder to run for a longer period of time than their armor counterparts -Penalty on extenders is what would equate to an increased hitbox in Dust -Shield tanked ships generally have less utility (medium slots), but a better ability to fit fitting enhancements and turret upgrades (low slots) -Caldari ships are the slowest before plates are added to Amarr ships Armor: -Can only be repaired actively -Armor reps and active armor hardeners draw less capacitor than their shield counterparts, allowing them to be run for a much longer time or for an indefinite amount of time -Armor fits can get a higher armor buffer than comparable shield buffers ---Passive armor tanking uses hardeners and plates to maximize EHP (no reps) ---Theory is that you have more EHP than what you would be able to rep back in an engagement -Gallente focus more on armor rep, Amarr focuses more on bricking I'm wondering if it will be worth a try to implement some of these features into Dust. We could base shield recharge on a base time to full recharge (which of course means that extenders will increase the hp/s) and make it constant and uninterruptible. This could equate to somewhere between 30-40 base shield per second on an unfitted Gunnlogi. Considerably worse than what one active armor rep could achieve. For a passively tanked Gunnlogi, your base shield should be roughly doubled with two extenders, increasing your recharge to 60-80 shield/s, and with maybe two recharger modules you should be able to add around 50% more for a final recharge rate of 90-120 shield/s. You might notice that shield recharges provide a smaller boost, though they should be considerably easier to fit. This seems to address people's concerns that shield gets a natural regen that's simply too high for having to spend zero modules on. The fit I described seems appropriate for what I consider to be a competitive passive fit. Also, fitting your high slots with damage amps and/or other utility modules and armor tanking your Gunnlogi will no longer give you the benefits of a high shield recharge. Another parallel than can be drawn with EVE is to have armor reps have a longer active duration than shield boosters and to provide more HP at the end of their run. I forget how shield boosters and armor reps compared in terms of hp/s. Armor reps can also have a shorter cooldown to replicate capacitor recovery in EVE due to their smaller cap requirements. One last thing I'd like to add: new module inspiration from EVE. Capacitor batteries and capacitor recharge relays. In Dust, we can have a module that increases module active duration (larger cap pool) and a module that decreases cooldown time (faster cap recovery). (I know that this is generalized but for Dust it could work). The first is a high slot module and the second is a low slot module. Perfect for making armor reps last for a longer time and reducing the longer cooldown times of the shield booster. I really like your last idea. Modules that affect Cooldown and duration of modules would be great and add variety. +1 for that I won't want stuff like that taking up the very limited module slot space and replacing those skills. I would rather have them be modules that go on pilot dropsuits. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 984	Posted - 2015.01.30 21:51:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any thoughts on the preliminary Hull numbers? On the Proposed HAVs tab, the Gunnlogi and especially the Falchion look like Minmatar tanks with that much armor compared to shields. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 984	Posted - 2015.01.30 23:46:00 - [16] - Quote I have made a glorious spreadsheet of how I feel hull stats for the all the tanks of all races should be. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 984	Posted - 2015.01.31 01:55:00 - [17] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: The-Errorist wrote: I have made a glorious spreadsheet of how I feel hull stats for the all the tanks of all races should be. I also have a different UHAV skill bonus. The UHAV would have no advantage over the MBT if your skills were implemented. +200 hp is nothing when the MBT gets extra slots duster 35000 wrote: The-Errorist wrote: I have made a glorious spreadsheet of how I feel hull stats for the all the tanks of all races should be. I also have a different UHAV skill bonus. With that, the UHAV would be so obsolete. You guys didn't scroll to the right to see what it would be like with max skills. I had split the 10% bonus into the skill and the hull. Anyway, I edited the spreadsheet to use the same UHAV skill from Rattati's spreadsheet and the 2.3k more HP, added shield recharge rates and a specific skill bonus Caldari UHAVs. The main point of the spreadsheet was to show armor and shields should be split between the races. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 986	Posted - 2015.01.31 03:51:00 - [18] - Quote I added base armor reps and a new tab with an easy to read chart of base armor & shield reps/recharge, made DHAVs have 75% less HP like from Rattati's spreadsheet, and made MBTs have lower base reps cuz of they have 2 more slot capacity. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 986	Posted - 2015.01.31 04:17:00 - [19] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: Is there an ETA on when phase 1 will drop? February? March? I'm guessing March because it's a lot of changes, were not not even close on finalizing numbers, and he and the rest of the dev team have to try those changes, and make sure all the numbers are what they should be. On top of all that there's work they already have/working on for the next builds after 1.0. All of that sounds like a nightmare. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 988	Posted - 2015.01.31 19:13:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The-Errorist wrote: I have made a glorious spreadsheet of how I feel hull stats for the all the tanks of all races should be. I also have a different UHAV skill bonus. can you sig it, so I can find it easier, back at work? Sure and by sign you mean make it more very apparent that I designed that spreadsheet besides the title, I just did. I renamed a tap to have The-Errorist, added a cell my Alias in bold, and gave it a bright yellow background on both tabs. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).

The-Errorist 988	Posted - 2015.01.31 19:58:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The-Errorist wrote: I have made a glorious spreadsheet of how I feel hull stats for the all the tanks of all races should be. I also have a different UHAV skill bonus. can you sig it, so I can find it easier, back at work? I'm going to be critical of the base hull EHP. Putting that much EHP on the hull directly marginalizes the utility of modules. This is one of the current problems and leads directly to cookie cutter fits with little to no variation. While your percentage breakdowns make sense, I'm going to suggest dropping the baseline hull HP some. If you had read what I wrote on post #705, you would have known that the main point of the spreadsheet was to show how armor and shields should be split between the races, provide more sensible shield recharge rates, base armor reps, as well as a specific bonus for how much the shield recharge bonus for Caldari should be. Maybe I should also add that to spreadsheet. Putting that much EHP directly into the hull and with the vague penalty to using HP mods to get higher than base HP, would discourage HP tanking, which opens the road for more mods combinations. Also you can't make a direct correlation to our current problem when the situation is shifting to what I said above, more mods will be added, and the DHAV & UHAV tanks having slot layouts of 4/1 and 1/4 instead of 3/2 and 2/3. Glorious spreadsheet of racial tank stats.