Guys

I am doing my homework here, with the loadouts. I started a brand new character and walked exactly through the steps of "what mighe each fit be with a given PG/CPU", without using PG/CPU mods. That means using suboptimal fits to experiment and get a fit under the cap.

To do a full PRO tank, and leaving the small turrets, we need way higher PG/CPU, and or some core PG/CPU skills, that I like actually.

I need to do this first in an environment that is known, IE 7. Once I have bashed out all the requirements for that to work, there shouldn't be any problem going to 7 slots. Problem is that that may require a little different approach with progression, because I don't want to rebalance all module efficiencies at the same time to make sure 7 slots isn't OP.

So, please propose eHP reduction that follows going to 7, because brick tanking should not be a thing.

Also, recommend some shield modules for lows.

Also, list out the unusable modules, and give hints on how to fix them, f.ex. shield boosters and the like. "What would they have to be like for me to start using them"

Thanks!

Where'd you pull 2325? Your butt?

Just to clarify for you the stats between Missiles vs Rails:

Missiles are explosive, -20/+20 (i kow it says projectile in protofits, but rattati changed them to explosive dmg profile)
Rails are hybrid, -10/+10

- Pro Missiles XT-201 539.5 damage per missile x 12 shots per clip = 6,474.5 base 5179.2 vs shield 7769.4 vs armor

- Proto Rail 1885 damage per shot x 9 shots = 16,965 damage base 15,268 vs shield 18,661.5 vs armor

But I know Rails over heat in 5 shots so in five shots = 9,425 damage base 8506.8 vs shields 10,367 vs armor

You are already putting out in 5 shots with a rail turret 1,656 base damage MORE than an entire XT201 Missile launcher Clip can do vs Armor.


Without sacrificing any HP for damage mods, in 5 shots you can already out-DPS in your own proposed glass cannon Missle Tank.

But you are not happy with this , so you want rail tanks to do in 5 shots +10%

10,367 damage base, 9425 damage vs shield, 11,404 damage vs armor without damage mods.

because missile tanks may do per clip +10%

7121 damage base 5697 vs shields 8545 damage vs armor

and you think this is balance. Because of you're mythical triple damage modded "redline missile tank" with 150m optimal, damage dropoff, missile travle time, inaacuracy, and the need to land every single round to get damage even comparable to a rail tank which has 300m range, no damage drop off, pinpoint accuaracy, no travel time, and can put out enough damage to kill any vehicle without overheating.

" This is the problem with opening the forums up for discussion with every type of player, more often than not 6 or 7 will try and push their agenda thru and Rattati has to sift thru all the garbage and try and figure out who is lying to him."

Yep, and i'm looking right at you.

You aren't really answering why 5 Rail rounds that do 2,951 more base damage than a full clip of Missiles, 3,327 more shield damage than missiles, and 2,597 more armor damage than missiles needs a 10% damage buff.


You also haven't been paying attention, i have been asking for armor tank hardeners to be buffed as a defense against getting instapopped by missiles.

You should try to show why rails need to put out even more damage to "keep up" with other turrets it already surpasses. Rails don't need anymore love. You wanted to compare it to the damage missiles do, here you go.

Now that you know for a fact that rails do far more damage than missiles do, are you ready to accept that Rails are in a great place right now and don't need a buff?

My source is Protofits and CCP 1.7 devblog and there hasn't been any hotifx to change the large rail numbers.

Like i said, rail turrets do not need 9 shots to kill any tank. Whereas the overheat is managable, 5 shots are usually what i manage in a tank fight before overheating, but no matter what, fighting with missiles means dropping the whole magazine and waiting to reload.

I'll switch it to your scenario, whereas both tankers spam shots like crazy.

With your numbers 12 missiles still do 6,474.5 base 5179.2 vs shield 7769.4 vs armor
Rail in 4 shots 6785 base 6107 vs shield 7463 vs armor.

Rail still has a signifcant advantage in damage output and application, 5 hits and the fight is well and trully over.

We are getting into the nitty gritty, of why the rail is still much more powerful than missiles, the balance philosphy reason why i dont want a damage bonus for the DHAV to rails is that i don't want have combination of high speed, high manueverablity, long range, high damage tank. the only con would be relativly low eHP, but it would have enough speeed to traverse the redline anyway.

Risk vs Reward for DHAVs was that they would be rewarded for close range fights as they would put out some serious damage but they'd risk getting into serious trouble vs AV infantry. Take away the close range requirements, and we have just another purpose built redline sniper tank.

Why the hell do you think I'm here? Because I like the free waffles?

I figure if me and a few others provide Rattati with prompt, and complete as we can make it data, we can set up things to AVOID this eventuality on either side.

Please, please, PLEASE remove the (at least large) rail bonus from the Cal DHAV. That plus it's many highs and low hp only encourage redline camping fits. I did some theoretical number crunching and it gets nearly 3.5k damage per shot, almost enough to OHKO a Python. Please, let it be a CQB missile Gank tank like the Gal is with blasters. Not to mention have two weapon bonuses is unfair to the Gal.

There will be no DHAV rail fit, I will make it so, whether through fitting bonuses or something even heavier handed.

Any thoughts on the preliminary Hull numbers?

Ok here goes:

Simple really, I establish a balanced/fair faction fit using max 2x of a single module.

Calculate what a full loadout of STD, ADV and PRO, requires using full level 5 skills.

Base the max fitting capacity on that number. There you have the progression.

Now, players will want to do other things, like 3x plates, and they will not necessarily have space to do so because it is not supported. So they will need to reduce some other mods/weapons down to ADV or even STD to do so.

These Loadouts will then be put on the Marketplace for players to buy and skill into.

Hulls are completely empty, except that UHAVS and HAVS have required small turrets, DHAVs and SHAVs do not

I cant figure out what MBTs are, could someone clarify please.

I'm not talking about secondary attributes. I'm talking about tanking style specifically.

For players that don't want to risk bluberries hopping in their tank and shooting small turrets to alert the enemy. We've been over this .

Sure and by sign you mean make it more very apparent that I designed that spreadsheet besides the title, I just did. I renamed a tap to have The-Errorist, added a cell my Alias in bold, and gave it a bright yellow background on both tabs.

Hey, still alive, i need ideas for good bonuses.

dhavs
general
speed
dmg mod duration

faction
ROF on missiles
lower heat increase for blaster

uhavs
general
passive resists
more hp

faction
hardener and shield duration
amor rep, shield regen


any idea is a good idea

And I'll be sure to gun with you, running proto swarms and AV nades to even further the imbalances presented. Glad I'm not the only one to question the changes.