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How to properly introduce Pilot Suits.

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Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2242	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:59:00 - [1] - Quote 1. Preparing First thing first, you need to prep vehicles for the suits. Vehicles in their current state are not ready for the introduction of pilot suits. A Compelling Reason There needs to be a compelling reasons to use these suits over HMG Heavies when piloting, without the suits making vehicles OP... Add a small input delay to all vehicle controls. A 0.075s delay to everything. Module activation. Acceleration. Turret manipulation. Turning. Brakes. Everything. The purpose of this is to make vehicles feel clumsy and a little unwieldy without a pilot suit. Pilot Dropsuit will completely negate this input delay. This is the compelling reason to use a fragile pilot suit instead of just another HMG Heavy. Vehicle Parity We need the full lineup of HAVs, LAVs, DSs, and Turrets if we want pilot suits to make any sense. This means adding a lot of Minmatar and Amarr stuff. 2. Numbers The itty gritty. Spreadsheeeeeeeeet! Base Stats I actually took a lot of inspiration from the Capsules in EVE when making my spreadsheet. For people that don't know, Capsules in EVE are essentially pilot to ship interfaces, that also double as ships/escape pods. They are the lore behind why one person can control a whole Battleship and all of its subsystems practically by themself. Very cool and high tech little things. They are also completely defenseless, cannot be modded, and have no armamants to speak of. But they are fast. They are meant to escape from combat. Escape pods. So, the Pilot suits in my spreadsheet are extremely squishy, only carry a single sidearm, have no module slots, and are really really fast. An Amarr Pilot would make a Minsout go green with envy. By having the fastest base movement speed in the game, less than 100 HP, and only a sidearm, retreat will be their only option in suitVsuit combat. They also have equipment slots in the higher tiers. These are intended for things like repair tools and potentially even uplinks if a LAV specialist wants to deploy some uplinks really far away. Something's I didn't include were regen rates, shield delays, melee, and stamina stats. All of those things but stamina should be subpar. Its just for running away. Bonuses These suits need to be worthwhile to use and spec into for any vehicle user. Not just HAVs. Not just LAVs. Not Just Dropships. Their bonuses need to be pretty unspecialized and really just follow a general racial theme because of this. Real generalist bonuses that anyone can work with at least a little bit. I took a little inspiration from both Assault and Sentinel suits when tailoring the bonuses to each race, since they both have racially appropriate and fairly unspecialized bonuses. 3. Colors! The most important part. Period. Personally, I'd like to see them be colored blaze orange and white, like these guys. Just imagine a Minscout with a color scheme like that. That would look cool. But I'd also like to see what suggestions other people have. Remember that they can't be colored like another role. So they are pretty restricted as far as choices go. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2242	Posted - 2015.01.16 04:16:00 - [2] - Quote Buwaro Draemon wrote: One problen I see with the pilot suit is motivation to use different tiers of the suit. Basically I can just get the Pilot suit to level 5 for the bonuses it will have with vehicles and only run STD. I need a reason to run the Proto pilot suit. Other than that, Rattati needs to read this! If there were timers for getting in and out of vehicles, this would be easy to solve. Higher tier = shorter timer. I know timers are actually a pretty popular idea, so this might be the best way of doing this Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2245	Posted - 2015.01.16 04:58:00 - [3] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Pretty good, but I don't think EVERYTHING should feel clunky. The delay should only happen with modules, and the movement controls a slightly lower acceleration speed. For example, a Heavy and Pilot suit could achieve the same speed while inside a Methana, but the Pilot gets to the top speed faster, brakes work better with Pilots, etc. Any suit should be able to HANDLE vehicles with similar ease, but the Pilot suit should get results much faster and at a greater level (Methana top speed for a non-Pilot would be 80mph, and a Pilot would be at 100mph, for example). No one likes control delays. Since modules don't necessarily impact the way you get a certain vehicle to move, a delay on them would be acceptable. My two cents. I do like the idea of delayed module activation, and I almost went with that. But the main reasons that I think an input delay would be better are threefold. 1.) It gives a nice sense of progression. As a player skills into a pilot suit, they will notice the delay disappearing, they will notice that their movements and manouvers become a little easier to pull off with each rank they put into it. This will provide a very tangible and real sense that pilot suits are just better at doing anything and everything vehicle related. 2.) It needs to be a very overarching penalty to all other suits for it to matter. It needs to permeate. If it only affects module activation, then vehicle users that run fits with only passive modules will see no benefit. 3.) By doing this, you are leading with both a carrot and a stick, rather than just a carrot. One of the points is that people don't like input delays, and that for anyone who wants to get into vehicles seriously, Pilot suits are the clear choice, as they should be. Not just because they will provide nice bonuses, but because they make the whole experience of piloting a vehicle much nicer. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2256	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:22:00 - [4] - Quote Guys. Its the same ******* logic as the Amarr Assault bonus, or even the Scout Role bonus. Or a multitude of other penalty reduction bonuses that already exist. Penalty reduction as a bonus isn't unprecedented. The purpose of this is not to make pilot suits necessary, but to make using them feel noticeable when in use. To provide a more tangible reason to use them other than a numerical bonus. But apparently anything that isn't a straight buff is just unacceptable to HAV pilots... Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2256	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:29:00 - [5] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. So im going to spend 2.7mil SP to get a PROTO pilot suit for my basic vehicle which enabled me to use my vehicle without input delay? - Absolutely worthless and such a stupid idea 2. The role bonus has to be worth it and gimping a vehicle because you choose to use a heavy and hmg because its more accurate than a blaster turret is not the way to go about it 3. Why doesnt infantry weapons and equipment have a delay on them and to removed the delay you have to skill into an assault/logi suit etc - Im sure infantry wouldnt want that 1.) Yes, I expect you to actually spend SP to do that, but also to gain access to the racial bonuses, which are pure buffs. In the end, using a pilot suit will be a pure buff to vehicle use, and everyone else won't be as good. Role separation. I'm trying to make sure pilots actually use pilot suits, without pilot suits having to make vehicles grossly OP. 2.) A 0.075s delay isn't gimping vehicles. It hardly affects anything. That is the amount of time it takes between two AR bullets, for reference. It will make them feel a little bit uncomfortable to use without a pilot suit, that's it. The actual performance effect is less than negligible. And the pilots that use HMG Heavies don't use them because HMGs are "more accurate than a blaster turret". They use them because they are low skill suits with a high HP buffer and massive DPS, with the only reason not to use one being a slow movement speed(which is negated by the vehicle). They use them because it allows them pop out of their vehicle and get some easy kills if the **** hits the fan. If their reason for using a suit or weapons was its accuracy, they'd use a Laser Rifle. 3.) Plenty of weapons and equipment actually do have things like this built in, and to a much larger scale than 0.075s. Such as Rail Rifles, Plasma Cannons, Repair Tools, Nanites Injectors, and even Laser Rifles in their own way. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2256	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:50:00 - [6] - Quote Harpyja wrote: If you're going to keep the resistance, repair, and speed bonuses, let me say this. A resistance bonus is most valuable per percentage point, so repair bonuses should have higher percentage values. In EVE, resistance bonuses used to be at 5% per level and armor rep bonuses were at 7.5% per level (1.5x). There weren't any direct speed bonuses so I'm unsure where they'd fall in relation to a resistance bonus, but I'll definitely feel cheated if my speed bonus was at 1% and the resistance bonus was at 2% per level. I kinda thought the speed bonus might need to be 2%. I might bump the repair bonus to 3% even, as well. Although I'm afraid if that might make triple rep build a little too effective in terms of DPS negation. What is the maximum reps a Magrugar can currently obtain? I might leave that at 2% and give them a little bit better turret bonus, depending on maths. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2257	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:31:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pilot suits are the worst idea possible... Care to elaborate? Why are you particularly apposed to pilot suits? Other than that you don't want to pay ISK for a suit, apparently. Which is weird, because the price of these suits would be trivial, considering they only have 1-3 total slots. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2257	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:37:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Pilot suits are where I think the normal dropsuit rules should be thoroughly violated. sidearm only, no survival fittings, the pilot bonuses should be stepped. STD 1% bonus per level to vehicle stat ADV 3% bonus per level to vehicle stat PRO 5% bonus per level to vehicle stat. making another expensive-ass dropsuit required on top of normal vehicle costs seems a bit much to me That's one of the problems I've been trying to kinda wrap my head around. The only way I can see for there being a reason to using the higher tiers would be a tier-based stat increase for the suits like you mentioned. But what stats should they improve? What stats would it make sense for them to improve? Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2257	Posted - 2015.01.16 15:54:00 - [9] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pilot suits are the worst idea possible... Care to elaborate? Why are you particularly apposed to pilot suits? Other than that you don't want to pay ISK for a suit, apparently. Which is weird, because the price of these suits would be trivial, considering they only have 1-3 total slots. One of three things happen: 1.)No pilot suit? Vehicles become absolute garbage as theyre now balanced around pilot suit abilities. 2.)Vehicles remain untouched, pilot bonus makes vehicles OP, and they both get nerfed. 3.!Pilot suit bonus is so trivial that its not worth the ISK or SP We already have one of the highest barriers for entry in the game in terms of ISK and SP needed to perform efficiently, and people want to increase that? There is no good reason to add pilot suits. I'm pretty sure I addressed all of those issues with my proposal. 1-2.)Vehicles would become neither trash nor OP. They'd be uncomfortable or fluid. The input delay is short enough to not have any adverse affects on performance, but long enough to be noticeable. Long enough for the pilot bonus to be noticeable. 3.)The pilot bonuses are certainly worth the SP. They aren't so strong as to be considered nessecary, bit strong enough for them to become the go to option for prospective vehicle pilot and veteran vehicle pilots alike. 2.7M SP is a pretty good deal for the bonuses these suits provide, considering I tried to balance the bonuses with the bonuses for any of the other specialized suits. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2259	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:39:00 - [10] - Quote Alright. I give up, people don't like the input delay, despite that being the point. The point was that people wouldn't like it and they'd be incentivized to pick up a Pilot suit because of that. The same ******* logic applies to and works for ScR/CR users and their respective assault suits. But god forbid vehicle users getting anything but the cake, right? I'm removing it. The point still stands though , there needs to be a reason to use Pilots without them making vehicles OP. So I'm replacing them in favor of a module activation delay. A 1 second across the board delay to module activation. I was on the edge of proposing this originally, but I thought an input delay would be better receivd because it has less of a negative affect to the nonpilots. I also figured that an input delay would be more fair for both passive and active module users, since it would have affected both of them equally, rather than being favored towards passive users. But whatever. You guys clearly know best. OP and Spreadsheet is changed. Home at Last <3

Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2259	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:52:00 - [11] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: they shouldn't have to break the vehciles with that delay just to force ppl into that stupid suit.. terrible idea just to annoy the F out of every pilot and that does not make the pilot suit interesting at all just an annoyance.. this has been the reason no pilot even cares about the suit because we know they will already pull this kinda backhanded approach. They have to. If they don't, what reason would there be to use a Pilot suit and not a different suit? The pilot suit needs to be a superior choice to HMGs, but not everpowering, and this is the only way to achieve these results. You need to lead with both a carrot and stick in this case. Or HMG tank drivers will still be the best choice. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2259	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:59:00 - [12] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: it really just sounds like an sp sink to me yea exactly this.. there's nothing interesting at all to someone already skilled into vehicles to have there vehicle broken for the sake of feeling like they're progressing with the pilot suit.. to a noob maybe but no one wants to have his vehicle backtracked for the sake of some stupid ass noobs to feel like they're progressing. what about those who've already been thru a 16mil SP vehicle grind ? **** all these stupid noobs and whats fun for them already at the sake of ppl who've already been here. You don't understand. This is the only way to avaoid both extremes of Pilots being OP or worthless. To avoid either end of the extremes spectrum, we need to work all little bit in both directions. Home at Last <3
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2260	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:28:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Stupid Blueberry wrote: it really just sounds like an sp sink to me yea exactly this.. there's nothing interesting at all to someone already skilled into vehicles to have there vehicle broken for the sake of feeling like they're progressing with the pilot suit.. to a noob maybe but no one wants to have his vehicle backtracked for the sake of some stupid ass noobs to feel like they're progressing. what about those who've already been thru a 16mil SP vehicle grind ? **** all these stupid noobs and whats fun for them already at the sake of ppl who've already been here. You don't understand. This is the only way to avaoid both extremes of Pilots being OP or worthless. To avoid either end of the extremes spectrum, we need to work all little bit in both directions. Actually, the most efficient way to avoid this problem is to admit that Pilot suits are an aweful idea, and should be scrapped. Something still needs to be done about HMG Heavies in HAVs and LAVs then. So a entering/exiting animation? Bigger suit = Longer animation? Home at Last <3

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