DUST Search - Large Missile Launcher Reload Skill

Harpyja wrote:

Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:

Harpyja wrote:

If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply.

I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them.

I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about.

80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Interval, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor.

Mah homie!

Now this doesn't necessarily negate their point that the Reload Skill itself is pretty much a waste of SP right now, they just happened to be wrong on the Railgun DPS numbers. Now, in order for a change to the Reload Skill to not make Missile Turrets Overpowered, it would require adjustments to the base stats of the turrets themselves. Luckily...it seems an opportunity to examine them in detail is upon us

You actually took me seriously? I was making a point at how stupid True is for saying that large missiles have too high of a DPS. They have high ALPHA, of course they are going to have a high DPS when they are firing, but their DPS falls a lot when reload is taken into count. Just like True exaggerated missile DPS by not counting in reload, I wasn't taking into account the fire interval between individual railgun shots and was counting their DPS based on charging a single shot.

Thank you though for noticing the intent in this thread that the large missile reload skill is underperforming compared to the other turret reload skills. True is too self-absorbed with his hate against everything shield and missiles.

Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2275	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:35:00 - [1] - Quote Can it please be looked at? At level 5, total reload time is reduced from 10 seconds down to only 9, due to the fact that it only applies to the 4 seconds before missiles start being loaded individually. The skill is much more favorable on the blaster or railgun, because it affects the total time for a reload. There's no justification why one turret's reload skill should not reduce the total reload time as much as on another turret. I have two obvious suggestions. Boost the skill from 5% reload time reduction to 12.5% reload time reduction. At level 5, it cuts 2.5 seconds off of the 4 seconds prior to individual missile reloads, which is 25% of the total reload time and the same as the reload time reduction on the other turrets. Or, just make the skill apply not only to the 4 seconds, but also to the half second in between each individual missile reload and a total reduction of 2.5 seconds is achieved: 1 second off of the initial 4 seconds and .125 seconds off of the .5 seconds between each individual missile reload. I remember how back before shotgun style reloading was introduced, the reload skill on large missile launchers was critical due to its long reload time and a full 2.5 second reduction could mean life or death. Right now it's almost worthless due to the SP needed. I would've just stopped at level 3 and not bothered with the SP for an additional .4 second reduction. It's the same deal with the shield depleted recharge delay skill: too much SP for something that's nearly useless on shield vehicles considering that you're either dead once your shields are gone or gaining an extra 168-285 (I forget what the recharge rate was on LAVs and dropships) shield from being able to start recharging a second sooner will barely do anything against any new damage. You're either already safe and sound where it makes no difference if you get full shield a second sooner, or you're still stuck hiding behind a rock in the middle of a bloodbath and you're dead as soon as AV or another vehicles gets their sight on you again. This skill is only useful in the rarest of circumstances where you survive getting into armor, start recharging only to get attacked again, and are able to escape to complete safety with only several hundred armor left. /end rant on the shield depleted recharge delay skill "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16616	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:45:00 - [2] - Quote Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2275	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:50:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14956	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:52:00 - [4] - Quote As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Harpyja Legio DXIV 2275	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:55:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. Thank you for a very fast response. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 158	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:46:00 - [6] - Quote Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. 80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Delay, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16624	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:56:00 - [7] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. 80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Interval, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor. Mah homie! *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:59:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. 80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Interval, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor. Mah homie! Now this doesn't necessarily negate their point that the Reload Skill itself is pretty much a waste of SP right now, they just happened to be wrong on the Railgun DPS numbers. Now, in order for a change to the Reload Skill to not make Missile Turrets Overpowered, it would require adjustments to the base stats of the turrets themselves. Luckily...it seems an opportunity to examine them in detail is upon us Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
DUST Fiend Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 15556	Posted - 2015.01.16 04:16:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. There needs to be significantly more information on this initiative. waits patiently Will those threads include small turrets as well? My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2777	Posted - 2015.01.16 04:36:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. Damn man, a separate thread for each turret? You could likely save yourself time and consolidate the large and small turrets of each type on one thread. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

Harpyja Legio DXIV 2275	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:01:00 - [11] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. 80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Interval, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor. Mah homie! Now this doesn't necessarily negate their point that the Reload Skill itself is pretty much a waste of SP right now, they just happened to be wrong on the Railgun DPS numbers. Now, in order for a change to the Reload Skill to not make Missile Turrets Overpowered, it would require adjustments to the base stats of the turrets themselves. Luckily...it seems an opportunity to examine them in detail is upon us You actually took me seriously? I was making a point at how stupid True is for saying that large missiles have too high of a DPS. They have high ALPHA, of course they are going to have a high DPS when they are firing, but their DPS falls a lot when reload is taken into count. Just like True exaggerated missile DPS by not counting in reload, I wasn't taking into account the fire interval between individual railgun shots and was counting their DPS based on charging a single shot. Thank you though for noticing the intent in this thread that the large missile reload skill is underperforming compared to the other turret reload skills. True is too self-absorbed with his hate against everything shield and missiles. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 05:45:00 - [12] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Harpyja wrote: If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. 80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Interval, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor. Mah homie! Now this doesn't necessarily negate their point that the Reload Skill itself is pretty much a waste of SP right now, they just happened to be wrong on the Railgun DPS numbers. Now, in order for a change to the Reload Skill to not make Missile Turrets Overpowered, it would require adjustments to the base stats of the turrets themselves. Luckily...it seems an opportunity to examine them in detail is upon us You actually took me seriously? I was making a point at how stupid True is for saying that large missiles have too high of a DPS. They have high ALPHA, of course they are going to have a high DPS when they are firing, but their DPS falls a lot when reload is taken into count. Just like True exaggerated missile DPS by not counting in reload, I wasn't taking into account the fire interval between individual railgun shots and was counting their DPS based on charging a single shot. Thank you though for noticing the intent in this thread that the large missile reload skill is underperforming compared to the other turret reload skills. True is too self-absorbed with his hate against everything shield and missiles. Now, Missile Turrets themselves do have their own problems, their sustained DPS capabilities is only 30% lower, while boasting almost 4 times the Alpha Capabilities (assuming the Missile user is skilled enough to apply all the missiles). True's dislike of Missiles in their current state is not unfounded from a purely crunch standpoint, as reducing the reload time scales the Sustained DPS by an even larger amount than the other turrets (keeping with the rail turret for the sake of this example). If the bonus was made to affect both the delay and reload speed, the margin of sustained DPS would be narrowed from the approx 30% to approx 19%, largely disrupting the primary weakness of the weapon system. Even applying the reload speed bonus to the actual reload time, and leaving the delay alone, narrows the margin to approx 25%. But the Suggestion of 12.5% does indeed maintain the current difference (keeping it at approx 30% lower sustained DPS) as you stated above. Now, I do acknowledge that in their current state it is a waste of SP, but the base stats need to be examined in order to maintain significant enough of a disadvantage associated with the high alpha capabilities. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 495	Posted - 2015.01.16 06:27:00 - [13] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yes...... lets just give the highest DPS turret in the game by a factor of 3 at the least and 4 at the most have a much shorter reload time........ If you're not going to be constructive, don't reply. I can make the same stupid comment about how large railguns deal more damage than large missiles in a single clip by a factor of two and large blasters deal more damage per clip by a factor of four, yet I'm not hating on them. I too can play the DPS game. 80GJ Particle Cannons have what, 1750 damage and a .4 second charge up time? This means that they have 4375 base DPS... 4813 DPS against armor and 3938 DPS against shield. That's even a higher large missile DPS that what you're complaining about. 80GJ Particle Cannon has 1696.5 Damage with a 0.35s Spool-Up and a 1.6s Fire Interval, giving it a DPS of 870 DPS Base, 783 DPS vs Shields, 957 DPS vs Armor. and this is why I refer to railguns as noobcannons. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6473	Posted - 2015.01.16 08:19:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. I am also having trouble figuring out how to change the missile turret so it's not an auto-win vs. Armor without gimping the crap out of it. So far no dice. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 711	Posted - 2015.01.16 09:36:00 - [15] - Quote In game large rail> missiles > blasters I don't kno much about this 800 DPs or what have you, but an adv large rail wil kill most proto missile tanks. Would rather fix hardeners on armor tanks to give them a fighting chance, than tweak missiles. Its the only true AV turret that cannot be used for beating infantry or for camping in the reline. Thanks for the heads up about the large missile reload skill, will save my SP on it. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1901	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:20:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. I am also having trouble figuring out how to change the missile turret so it's not an auto-win vs. Armor without gimping the crap out of it. So far no dice. Large swarm / artillery turret? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6474	Posted - 2015.01.16 10:46:00 - [17] - Quote Eh. I might do with the turrets what I did with the heavy weapons. Normalize the DPS around variants and let the firing mechanics and damage profiles do the heavy lifting. This would allow me to normalize base HP on the hulls. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:29:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. I am also having trouble figuring out how to change the missile turret so it's not an auto-win vs. Armor without gimping the crap out of it. So far no dice. Add Damage Type options to the current "Missile" Turrets, adjust values to reduce sustained DPS and Alpha slightly (while ensuring the support skills for them are worth the SP, and retaining current turret functionality maybe)? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6474	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:02:00 - [19] - Quote We don't have the capability to run selectable warheads. We'd have to make four versions of each turret. Are large turrets projectile profile like the smalls or is it still explosive? Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 492	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:07:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As part of the vehicle rebalance initiative, I will be posting a special thread on every turret, where we can discuss the details. 1. Will that be soonish or after the HAV rebalance thread?



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