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Jathniel
G I A N T
1426
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Posted - 2015.01.15 07:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
A good suggestion made a long time ago, was introducing a small damage threshold that needs to be broken, to prevent shields from regenerating under fire.
I encourage such a fix.
I would suggest putting this 'prevention threshold' at about 100 damage. At a distance, very low damage won't stop regeneration, and up close, you'll need to put 3-4 rounds in with an AR, and really get some good hits in with an HMG or SMG, to stop the regen.
This will help higher alpha weapons to shine at range like they should, rather than CRs.
I would also suggest removing headshot damage multipliers while shields are up and active. The concept of headshot vulnerability revolves around the deficiencies of armor, not energy shielding. Why would energy shielding be weaker around the cranium, than it would around the hand or leg?
Considering the volatile nature of shields in this game, they shouldn't have so critical a weakness.
So I would suggest a modifier that negates headshot damage multipliers, but gradually allows them as shields level drop; so that actually shooting at a shielded targets head isn't totally useless. When armor is finally exposed 100% of your weapon's headshot bonus is available.
I would also recommend removing the Recharge Delay penalties that exist on Shield Extenders, and increasing the recharging power of Energizers by 20% of their current bonus (read: BY 20% of the CURRENT bonus, NOT 20 actual percentage points).
I also recommend improving the performance of Shield Regulators by 30% of their current numbers, for serious shield bounce back delay.
These changes will allow shields to be VERY fearsome to face with their recharge speed, and give them unprecedented dominance in open field combat. To kill a shielder efficiently, you will need higher alpha at range, eagle eye accuracy, or you will need to close distance.
TL;DR
- Damage threshold to prevent shield recharge.
- Dampener on headshot damage received until shields depleted.
- Removal of recharge delay penalty on extenders.
- Buffing recharge power of Energizers by 20% of current numbers.
- Buffing shield regulators by 30% of their current numbers.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1428
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Posted - 2015.01.15 14:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
All Gucci wrote:You wasted you time typing up this? lmfao no that is just stupid as hell  If sheilds get a damage threshhod then armor regen needs to be increased by 2 complex armor reps worth.
The damage threshold is needed to break regen. NOT to prevent damage to a fully charged shield.
You don't see it as unreasonable that a round that does NO damage, is able to completely stop a shield from recharging?
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1428
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Posted - 2015.01.15 15:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems everyone got caught up with the headshot modifier.
It was meant to work as a system of 'the more damage done to the shield, the more damage done to the head'.
And was meant as a sweetener for shields. Something that makes them appealing and important to consider, even for armor suits.
Just as armor reps can be considered universally important. Shield regulation, getting your shields back would be considered universally important. A way of better protecting your head, and being able to shave damage off of a few initial rounds.
EDIT: Considering long range combat is something that the Caldari specialize in, I would imagine, they would make sure that sufficient protection exists.
The dampening would be percentage based. The percent of shield HP remaining = the percent of headshot damage dampened.
This would make Caldari and Min suits especially ideal for open field and ranged combat.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1433
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for the feedback all.
I usually just feel these balances out intuitively.
Caldari suits are far from useless, but they are still disadvantaged at this point.
I still see shield regulation and shield recharge speeds as areas that could be helped, in particular.
I felt that 100 damage as the threshold to break regen is ideal. At absolute ranges, weapons like the TAR and Scrambler won't be able to simply stop a regen. The entire intention was to give the shield suits a definite and measurable advantage in long range/open field combat; where light weapons are generally fighting at the edge of their optimals, and shield suits would essentially, if played properly, have an additional 100 hp, thanks to the threshold.
Up close, 100hp means nothing, and the threshold won't even be there, unless the shield is actively trying to regen. But at range, this will give shield suits a little room to breathe against laser and plasma weapons; AND make people think twice about trying to engage them with projectile weapons.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1439
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Posted - 2015.01.17 20:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:1. Threshold should be 10% of total shields. An amarr suit shouldn't have the same threshold as a Caldari
2. +1 to rechargers, energizers, and regulators buff. Its necessary ATM for the regen between shield and armor to be balanced.
3. Weapon profiles need to be looked at. Id like to change them around to +5/-5 for plasma, -5/+5 for rail, -10/+10 for projectile, +10/-10 for scrambler, -15/+15 for explosive, and +15/-15 for beam laser.
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I suggest damage thresholds be more variable than a flat 100.
To weaken dual tanking, I would like to see this stat be significantly weaker on Amarr and Gallente suits than it is on Caldari and Minmatar suits.
The idea of the threshold being a percentage of your total shields, is a solid one; and I actually DID consider it.
I felt that 10% was a bit too low...
At that level, you would barely see a difference for proto Cal assaults and heavies; and the threshold would be next to non-existent for any other shield suit.
I then considered 20%, and while that worked for weaker suits ("weaker" = anyone under 500 shield HP, by my standard), it clearly went over the top with Cal assaults and heavies. You would probably be looking at damage threshold barriers in excess of 100, 120, and maybe even 150 HP or more.
Factor in, recharger and regulator bonuses, and thresholds like that are simply too high.
I'm not the best at math, I'm going entirely by intuition here.
I settled on a flat 100 damage being the requirement for the threshold, because most utility light weapons, need to throw a few rounds downwind to hit that total. Especially at range, at the edge of their optimals.
Additionally, while AT range the damage fall off for laser and plasma won't be too significant vs. shields; But, AT range, projectile and rail will find themselves at a disadvantage against the regen, IF they don't stay on point, because damage profiles still apply. You will NOT break a skilled player's shields at range easily. In fact, if they perform their movements correctly from cover, they would be able to juggle their regeneration threshold, and hold out indefinitely while periodically returning fire. This is intended.
But if the flat 100 HP is problem... and I can see where it can be (particularly with strafers)
I have a better idea:
We can use range + damage profiles as a means of controlling the threshold.
- If your on-screen readout reads <100%, you will not break the threshold.
- If your on-screen readout reads >100% the threshold will not take effect.
This will have the effect of making shield threshold effective at all ranges vs. anti-armor weapons, and maintaining shield weakness to anti-shield weapons UNLESS at long range.
The threshold remains at 100HP
How does that sound?
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1439
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Posted - 2015.01.19 17:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jathniel wrote:
-snip much discussion of what the threshold should be-
There is such a thing as overcomplicating matters.  Just having base suit numbers for thresholds will do fine, I think. The only complication that might be worth looking into would be regulators - would they affect the threshold? In the end, I don't think the exact numbers matter much. It's more to prevent the odd plink from preventing shield recharge completely.
One way or another we have to do something.
Shields really don't need a lot to be more effective and appealing to use. It's all in the regen.
There's another thread discussing the AR, because people think there's something wrong with it, when it's actually stronger today than it has EVER been (minus range).
Here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=187964
And Rattati is frustrated because he's been throwing buffs at it, when the problem is the armor meta, NOT the gun.
The AR and SCR wreck shields like there's no tmr. These guns are functioning as intended.
But some people are seriously talking about giving it more buffs, or worse, shaking up the entire damage profile system (which will complicate balance across the board).
If we could just see numbers to see how many people are running armor suits, and if we make shielders more effective and appealing, then we would see a lot of players shift back to running shields... in turn the AR would have more things to shine against.
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