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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16494	Posted - 2015.01.11 03:29:00 - [1] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: You're not supposed to kill infantry with a railgun... If you wanna kill infantry use a blaster. You should have splash with a Railgun its the only turret in Dust 514 that actually resembles a tank main gun. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16494	Posted - 2015.01.11 04:15:00 - [2] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Forever ETC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Buwaro Draemon wrote: Fit in small blasters or missiles. You're welcome. Near impossible to fit a small turret without gimping the whole tank, yet I can fit two PRO weapons on a PRO suit. Double standards as always. Lol WTF, please stop. Although I'm all for Railguns and Forges getting their splash back(why did they remove it?), you are just making a fool of yourself. He speaks the truth. Putting on small turrets kills the tank. If you put a second turret on an ADS, you literally just asked to be two shotted by a swarmer. Not on any Shield Tank since my fitting stats are off the charts. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16496	Posted - 2015.01.11 20:25:00 - [3] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: That's because you put on PG/CPU extenders. I can literally go All proto on my drop suit without even extensions. If I put on a CPU/PG extension on a dropsuit- I can literally put on everything I want and have a ton of space to work with. But that's the point I don't sacrifice anything on my tanks to fit them. In fact I gain from using them unlike any other suit or other vehicles (barring the Caldari ADS) in the game currently. I mean that one modules means I can armour tank as well. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16497	Posted - 2015.01.11 21:48:00 - [4] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: You're not supposed to kill infantry with a railgun... But I do it all the time. Everything kills infantry mate. That's rule of thumb when you are talking about weapons that fire shells 5-10x the size of your assault rifle...... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16497	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:33:00 - [5] - Quote Rain Da Pain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: You're not supposed to kill infantry with a railgun... But I do it all the time. Everything kills infantry mate. That's rule of thumb when you are talking about weapons that fire shells 5-10x the size of your assault rifle...... I don't think ccp quite thought about this with taking railgun splash damage! They need to need swarms a little and then give Railguns a 25% splash damage! Then buff the madys hardeners to 40% :) tanks almost fixed H'mmmm fair suggestions. I prefer nerfing and buffing hardeners at the same time. Either - Both to 40% will less duration. or - Both to 30 and remains the same. AS for turrets I've been having a chat with Thaddeus Reynolds. His suggestions are that there are 3 kinds of turrets representing different kinds of ammunition in the same gun. For example 200mm Titanium Sabot - A standard kind of HEAT round with moderate AoE and fair direct damage Values. 200mm Quake Sabot - A High Explosive Armour Piercing round with the least splash and highest direct damage. 200mm Tremor Sabot - A High Explosive Fragmentation round with the highest splash and lowest direct damage. The more I think about it the less we need tank main gun tiers. Especially since in an idealised model with single shot main battle cannon the SP benefits of better tracking, faster reloads, more ammo capacity, higher and lower elevations combined with the different ammo types is more that enough of a benefit over other tanks. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16501	Posted - 2015.01.12 00:00:00 - [6] - Quote Rain Da Pain wrote: I love the ammo idea! Ccp should add an option when you press x to edit the fitting of ammo type. Also with hardeners the madys should be 10% lower because they can tank higher but the add a 3% or something buff to large turrets with a mady Unfortunately the Madrugar actually rarely has more eHP than the Gunnlogi. When it comes to calculations, especially at higher levels your resistance values determined how powerful your eHP tank is rather than raw numbers. Since the Maximum stacked armour on the current Madrugar is 5885 and you have 25% resistance on that you have roughly 7356 armour and 1200 shields. Whereas on a Gunnlogi with its current statistics you can amass comparable eHP while advancing your natural resistances vs most AV forms due to lack of parity while additionally using one fitting module to stack armour for something like 7120 Shields and 2950 armour. Honestly if Gunnlogi were adjusted so that they could not stack armour as well as shields they'd almost be balanced tanks especially if hardeners were brought to parity. Moreover if Rattati adjusts tanks and adds one more On Rack Slot (primary tanking slot for tanks) then their hardeners would have to be adjusted anyway. You actually mentioned one thing I am really mystified by. Blasters, traditionally high DPS CQC weapons have the lowest DPS of all turrets while missiles, traditionally low DPS high alpha turrets have the most DPS. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16501	Posted - 2015.01.12 00:11:00 - [7] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: That's because you put on PG/CPU extenders. I can literally go All proto on my drop suit without even extensions. If I put on a CPU/PG extension on a dropsuit- I can literally put on everything I want and have a ton of space to work with. But that's the point I don't sacrifice anything on my tanks to fit them. In fact I gain from using them unlike any other suit or other vehicles (barring the Caldari ADS) in the game currently. I mean that one modules means I can armour tank as well. Well, that's a high/low problem. Shield tanking dropsuits don't sacrifice anything for putting on CPU/PG extenders. Stop hating. This is just like how Armor HAVers don't sacrifice anything for dmg mods. Which is very odd since damage modifying modules are Low Slot modules. However in this case I will keep hating. There are too many imbalances in Dust that are caused by the fitting inconsistencies and slot lay out, and module oddities that makes it impossible for me to ignore. Caldari HAV should not be able to Armour HAV as well as Shield HAV. Gallente HAV should be a truly viable option on on par both fitting meta wise and eHP wise with Shield HAV. HAVers should not pretend like firing automatic Main Guns like we have in Dust are appropriate armaments for our "Tanks" if you can even call them tank. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16502	Posted - 2015.01.12 02:25:00 - [8] - Quote Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Rain Da Pain wrote: I love the ammo idea! Ccp should add an option when you press x to edit the fitting of ammo type. Also with hardeners the madys should be 10% lower because they can tank higher but the add a 3% or something buff to large turrets with a mady Unfortunately the Madrugar actually rarely has more eHP than the Gunnlogi. When it comes to calculations, especially at higher levels your resistance values determined how powerful your eHP tank is rather than raw numbers. Since the Maximum stacked armour on the current Madrugar is 5885 and you have 25% resistance on that you have roughly 7356 armour and 1200 shields. Whereas on a Gunnlogi with its current statistics you can amass comparable eHP while advancing your natural resistances vs most AV forms due to lack of parity while additionally using one fitting module to stack armour for something like 7120 Shields and 2950 armour. Honestly if Gunnlogi were adjusted so that they could not stack armour as well as shields they'd almost be balanced tanks especially if hardeners were brought to parity. Moreover if Rattati adjusts tanks and adds one more On Rack Slot (primary tanking slot for tanks) then their hardeners would have to be adjusted anyway. You actually mentioned one thing I am really mystified by. Blasters, traditionally high DPS CQC weapons have the lowest DPS of all turrets while missiles, traditionally low DPS high alpha turrets have the most DPS. You just keep on hating large missile turrets, don't you? Of course something with the highest alpha damage will have the highest DPS, while it is firing. But then it needs to stop to reload and only then it achieves its lower DPS over time. You should be happy that large missiles actually had their DPS over time nerfed when shotgun style reloading was brought in because with max reload skills, their total reload time only decreases from 10 seconds down to 9 seconds as opposed to down to 7.5 seconds before shotgun style reload. Sorry True but I think you're just being plain ignorant. You claim the large missiles are broken and need to be toned down. Then tell me, why is it that a railgun Gunnlogi is the most effective at taking out other shield vehicles? Large missiles and railguns are perfectly fine, and railguns are actually the dominant ones on the field. Not because of skill requirements, but simply because they are the best at AV and balanced by the fact that they are the worst at AI. Large blasters need to be buffed, but not in the way I know you'd like them to be buffed which still won't be balanced. I used Large Missiles almost all time when I did play Dust 514 they still are the top tier of Dust's anti tank gameplay especially when maxed out with the appropriate skill points simply because of their prolific damage output in such a short amount of time. They do this in such a manner that Armour HAV are all but invalidated on the field and after which time a 9 second reload speed allows you dish out another X000 DPS. A little over 3000 vs shields and 4500 vs armour. Moreover as I have said I do not feel they are appropriate to be a proper MBT tank turret. I do not see rapid fire missile turrets..... Here Here Here Here or Here. Nor do I see TTK vs one specific kind of vehicle at less than three seconds. Every single game here arguably has a better vehicle vs vehicle engagement dynamic than Dust. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16506	Posted - 2015.01.12 03:48:00 - [9] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: Rain Da Pain wrote: I love the ammo idea! Ccp should add an option when you press x to edit the fitting of ammo type. Also with hardeners the madys should be 10% lower because they can tank higher but the add a 3% or something buff to large turrets with a mady Unfortunately the Madrugar actually rarely has more eHP than the Gunnlogi. When it comes to calculations, especially at higher levels your resistance values determined how powerful your eHP tank is rather than raw numbers. Since the Maximum stacked armour on the current Madrugar is 5885 and you have 25% resistance on that you have roughly 7356 armour and 1200 shields. Whereas on a Gunnlogi with its current statistics you can amass comparable eHP while advancing your natural resistances vs most AV forms due to lack of parity while additionally using one fitting module to stack armour for something like 7120 Shields and 2950 armour. Honestly if Gunnlogi were adjusted so that they could not stack armour as well as shields they'd almost be balanced tanks especially if hardeners were brought to parity. Moreover if Rattati adjusts tanks and adds one more On Rack Slot (primary tanking slot for tanks) then their hardeners would have to be adjusted anyway. You actually mentioned one thing I am really mystified by. Blasters, traditionally high DPS CQC weapons have the lowest DPS of all turrets while missiles, traditionally low DPS high alpha turrets have the most DPS. You just keep on hating large missile turrets, don't you? Of course something with the highest alpha damage will have the highest DPS, while it is firing. But then it needs to stop to reload and only then it achieves its lower DPS over time. You should be happy that large missiles actually had their DPS over time nerfed when shotgun style reloading was brought in because with max reload skills, their total reload time only decreases from 10 seconds down to 9 seconds as opposed to down to 7.5 seconds before shotgun style reload. Sorry True but I think you're just being plain ignorant. You claim the large missiles are broken and need to be toned down. Then tell me, why is it that a railgun Gunnlogi is the most effective at taking out other shield vehicles? Large missiles and railguns are perfectly fine, and railguns are actually the dominant ones on the field. Not because of skill requirements, but simply because they are the best at AV and balanced by the fact that they are the worst at AI. Large blasters need to be buffed, but not in the way I know you'd like them to be buffed which still won't be balanced. I used Large Missiles almost all time when I did play Dust 514 they still are the top tier of Dust's anti tank gameplay especially when maxed out with the appropriate skill points simply because of their prolific damage output in such a short amount of time. They do this in such a manner that Armour HAV are all but invalidated on the field and after which time a 9 second reload speed allows you dish out another X000 DPS. A little over 3000 vs shields and 4500 vs armour. Moreover as I have said I do not feel they are appropriate to be a proper MBT tank turret. I do not see rapid fire missile turrets..... Here Here Here Here or Here. Nor do I see TTK vs one specific kind of vehicle at less than three seconds. Every single game here arguably has a better vehicle vs vehicle engagement dynamic than Dust. Did any of those examples happen to take place in the future? Excluding the 4th one. That's a poor justification for a bad mechanic. Shall I show some Halo Footage? Star Wars Battlefront Footage? MechWarrior? Or the Battlefield 4 Levkov Hover Tank. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16506	Posted - 2015.01.12 03:57:00 - [10] - Quote Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: I used Large Missiles almost all time when I did play Dust 514 they still are the top tier of Dust's anti tank gameplay especially when maxed out with the appropriate skill points simply because of their prolific damage output in such a short amount of time. They do this in such a manner that Armour HAV are all but invalidated on the field and after which time a 9 second reload speed allows you dish out another X000 DPS. A little over 3000 vs shields and 4500 vs armour. Moreover as I have said I do not feel they are appropriate to be a proper MBT tank turret. I do not see rapid fire missile turrets..... Here Here Here Here or Here. Nor do I see TTK vs one specific kind of vehicle at less than three seconds. Every single game here arguably has a better vehicle vs vehicle engagement dynamic than Dust. You're right. Let's just scrap everything Dust has tried to acheive, make all HAVs standard with OHK artillery turrets and call vehicles finished. I have not suggested we work based off of OHKO turrets. Merely powerful, high explosive shells, with appropriate recoil, re chambering, etc values which can be adjusted to make for interesting and unique main guns for each racial tank type. A Railgun might fire a single round with little to no projectile drop. An Artillery round might see projectile drop but have more explosive charge. A Large Laser might have no splash but also no fall off or ammo values to deal with. A Blaster might be a 1-3 round magazine that allows much faster projection of rounds (still with rather fair delays between the rounds and fair projectile drop). But I ask you. What HAS Dust tried to achieve with HAV (I refuse to call them tanks)? What does HAV mean? *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16506	Posted - 2015.01.12 04:02:00 - [11] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: True Adamance wrote: -crap- Here is a better question... Who are you to tell CCP what to do? I don't see other games out there like Dust 514. If you want Battlefield tanks in Dust. How about you go play Battlefield of what ever the hell you wanna play. I do. This is why I no longer play Dust. I cannot justify calling Dust HAV "Tanks". As for who I am to tell them what is what? I'm no one to do any such thing. Just like you were no one to make similar comments in the many threads I have seen you post it. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16506	Posted - 2015.01.12 04:03:00 - [12] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Harpyja wrote: True Adamance wrote: I used Large Missiles almost all time when I did play Dust 514 they still are the top tier of Dust's anti tank gameplay especially when maxed out with the appropriate skill points simply because of their prolific damage output in such a short amount of time. They do this in such a manner that Armour HAV are all but invalidated on the field and after which time a 9 second reload speed allows you dish out another X000 DPS. A little over 3000 vs shields and 4500 vs armour. Moreover as I have said I do not feel they are appropriate to be a proper MBT tank turret. I do not see rapid fire missile turrets..... Here Here Here Here or Here. Nor do I see TTK vs one specific kind of vehicle at less than three seconds. Every single game here arguably has a better vehicle vs vehicle engagement dynamic than Dust. You're right. Let's just scrap everything Dust has tried to acheive, make all HAVs standard with OHK artillery turrets and call vehicles finished. He's just butthurt that his Rep stacked Maddies can't take a clip from a damage modded Proto Missile Turret. He should probably reconsider his fit. Nope I never used Triple Rep Maddies. Never much liked Tanks post 1.6. Much better game when Reps were active and we had 4-5 armour slots to work with. I could accept it one way or the other if Rattati came out and said what HE wants to do with vehicles and tanks and then can take it from there to provide relevant support. At the moment all I am doing is taking a pretty open ended invite from him to vomit forth my ideas on what I think Tanks should be like in Dust. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16508	Posted - 2015.01.12 04:31:00 - [13] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: True Adamance wrote: -crap- Here is a better question... Who are you to tell CCP what to do? I don't see other games out there like Dust 514. If you want Battlefield tanks in Dust. How about you go play Battlefield of what ever the hell you wanna play. I do. This is why I no longer play Dust. I cannot justify calling Dust HAV "Tanks". As for who I am to tell them what is what? I'm no one to do any such thing. Just like you were no one to make similar comments in the many threads I have seen you post it. Nobody asked to to play DUST 514. Also- I don't just come in and say "HerP DerP- I got killed by X-weapon remove because no game has the same weapon D3Rp H3RP" That's not what I am saying at all. I am suggesting that when a weapon like the missile launchers has the potential to dish out between 3000- 4000 DPS effectually nullifying one kind of vehicle type something is iffy. Imagine if there were a Laser turret in this game that dealt 4500 damage per second to Shield HAV? Would that be fair? Probably not. I know when it comes to tanks short TTK vs Multiple Damage Modded Shield Tanks (the only ones that can do this right now) is a complete turn off. It's not clever gameplay at all, you are not being cunning by using this kind of fit. You are simply doing something most of the time (Armour Tanked Damage Modding a Shield Tank) should not be possible. I have did not start to notice how powerful it was until I was getting DPSed down by it in a Double Extender, Single Hardener fit which roughly should have a very high level of durability vs that kind of tank. I have presented an argument in which I outline two main things. One is that the DPS of the Missile Turret is by comparison to the others much greater if you are willing to look at it vs Rails it is 3.5x that of any other turret. This being the case when according to examples in EVE Missiles are not DPS weapons but instead alpha weapons firing in volleys, and even the smaller variants called rockets are in most cases no higher in terms of DPS than other turret types. Secondly that it completely removes any semblance of competitiveness from one type of tank when it is arrayed against it with no equivalent counter to balance it out. Perhaps instead of the idea to remove content from the game I might suggest an alteration to the content. Either way it is not something you would like to be quite frank. It would mean the Large Missile Launcher would have to be adjusted in such a manner is that other turrets become competitive with it. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16516	Posted - 2015.01.12 21:35:00 - [14] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Harpyja wrote: shaman oga wrote: Large rails has turned into a hard mode sniper rifle a little AOE is due. I wonder how many kills rail turrets AOE have caused after the first nerf to come to the decision of completely eliminating splash damage. With the lack of mobility of large rails a little AOE is needed, more to destroy equipments than to kill infantry. If CCP care about people camping nodes from safe spots, they should protect nodes with barrages like they did on manus peak map, not eliminate a vital feature of a turret. I definitely agree on having some splash for eliminating equipment. How can equipment survive a hypersonic slug impacting the ground just millimeters away from it? If CCP is so concerned about splash damage wrecking infantry, at least give rails a 1 meter splash radius. What CCP is thinking is that Railgun shots shouldn't have splash damage and that is OK but i'm pretty sure that a Railgun Round is atleast one or two meters in diameter. Therefore, the rounds should behave like 9mm bullets. The penetrative power of a railgun would be so immense I doubt you'd necessarily need anything more than 100-150mm. Even then it seems kind of like over kill to me. Not like out Tanks have the same calibre of shielding or armour as space vessels so 150mm which is used in space combat would wreck face. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16530	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:14:00 - [15] - Quote Rain Da Pain wrote: So in reality the railgun would have a huge splash probably severing your legs from you body :) but for the sake of balancing a 25% splash would be good. Ccp please say weather it's possible to add or not! Hmmmm likely one of the lesser explosive charge of such weapons.....to knowledge, and I'm prepared to revise my opinion if proven wrong, the design features of railgun projectiles revolved around penetrating the armour of the target rather than damaging it through explosive force. 25% of a railgun would be a little too much 20% might do or even 17.5%. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16531	Posted - 2015.01.13 00:40:00 - [16] - Quote Lahut K'mar wrote: Get a gunner. Small turrets are there for infantry. Indeed. And Large are for vehicles am I right? Thus if changes are made like this the appropriate destructive force should be applied on the main gun of a tank. Thus AoE is somewhat necessary. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16549	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:07:00 - [17] - Quote Rain Da Pain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lahut K'mar wrote: Get a gunner. Small turrets are there for infantry. Indeed. And Large are for vehicles am I right? Thus if changes are made like this the appropriate destructive force should be applied on the main gun of a tank. Thus AoE is somewhat necessary. Do you know how much weaker a tank with a turret is compared to not? Very. If you have two gunners you have an additional 1000 DPS, if you use small railguns, over your opponent. Which is a huge advantage over other tanks. Not only do you have 2 extra pairs of eyes to spot enemies on the map with high damage precision guns but you can use one of your crew to access the mini map and direct you/ communicate you the movements of enemy ground and air vehicles. So many people underestimate the level of teamwork and trust and pilot and his gunner have. If I could I'd love to have Ceej and Thal crew my tank ever game since I one hundred per cent trust them to be able to communicate threats and react to my own calls. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.