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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2682
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Posted - 2015.01.06 01:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:They do not, at least not in the long run. Why? Because it would ultimately be an SP and ISK sink.
Vehicles would eventually be balanced around pilot suits. This would mean that pilot suits wouldn't be so much an enhancement, but a necessity for vehicle users. You wouldn't wear it to get an edge: you would wear it to just perform at the standard tier.
That's why vehicle users don't really want pilot suits. They will give them nothing.
LOL This coming from someone with an irrational fear and hatred of vehicles.
Eat cow pies and go find another game to ruin.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2682
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Posted - 2015.01.06 01:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:They do not, at least not in the long run. Why? Because it would ultimately be an SP and ISK sink.
Vehicles would eventually be balanced around pilot suits. This would mean that pilot suits wouldn't be so much an enhancement, but a necessity for vehicle users. You wouldn't wear it to get an edge: you would wear it to just perform at the standard tier.
That's why vehicle users don't really want pilot suits. They will give them nothing. Lol, I want pilot suits for the sole purpose of them being a SP sink. I absolutely have no interest in leveling up what few remaining vehicle related skills that aren't to 5 already and all of my SP now either sit unallocated or I spend them to get a point here or there for infantry, and then only to regret wasting any SP into infantry because I just can't compete with infantry about half the time since I have maybe only a million SP into infantry (not fun going up against assaults with more hp than my heavy or going up against scouts with more hp than my medium).
I'd have my core skills to 5 along with the pilot suit to 5, so I can get maximum effectiveness out of all of my vehicles. Max HP, cooldown, mod duration, damage, rotation, reload, whatever. Every little bit I can squeeze out, I'll do.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2682
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Posted - 2015.01.06 01:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lupus Wolf wrote:If it enhances the piloting ability, and/or has enough equipment bandwidth for 2 uplinks and a hive, then I won't mind it.
I just want it to make vehicles better, that's all. I don't care about an equipment slot, weapons, or modules for the suit itself at the start if it makes a vehicle better.
Personally, I think heavies should take longer to get in/out of vehicles (cause they're so fat).
No, because sandbox video game.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2682
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Posted - 2015.01.06 02:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:incoherent drooling
I'm not the one trying to ruin the game for a small subsection of the community/playerbase. You are. Who the hell are you to say pilots don't want the pilot suit? YOU'RE NOT A PILOT. Who the hell are you to determine what pilots get? Morons like you have been deciding the direction vehicles go in since the game was only accessible on the weekends. What the hell more do you want? If you want vehicles removed, which I'm sure you do but don't have the stones to actually say it, then get a petition together and present it to CCP to be voted on by the community.
Go find another game to ruin. YOU'RE the one acting like a child, with all this "my way or the highway" trash. We just want vehicles to be worth the SP again. You don't want them to be worth anything.
Go to Call of Duty.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2683
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Posted - 2015.01.06 18:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:psychotic ravings from a pilophobe maniac
Because all you do is whine, complain, throw things, cry, scream, hit yourself when vehicles kill you.
Again, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO DECIDE VEHICLES' FATE?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2687
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Posted - 2015.01.06 22:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Makuta Miserix wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
We just want vehicles to be worth the SP again. You don't want them to be worth anything.
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Do I pilot vehicles? Not since open Beta. Do I think that they are an important part of the game? Yes.
LOL Open beta was how long ago?
Go away. Open beta means nothing today. If he was ever a pilot, he'd know how difficult and expensive it can be.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2687
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Posted - 2015.01.06 22:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Morons called for removable turrets because ::I don't want to share my vehicle with morons::
See below
because ::I can't be arsed to play an FPS when I am playing an FPS::
Yeah, FPS means "infantry only, no vehicles allowed ever.
because ::**** you get out of my solopwnmobile::
[i]I do better because now I can fight a vehicle on my terms, instead of having some massive idiot fire at something I'm not ready to engage. You don't tank and never have, so you can't possibly understand the frustration of some idiot causing my 1.2mil ISK investment to get destroyed.
Yeah, I'm a moron because I don't want some idiot making me show up on the mini-map to get bombed. Yeah, great logic there. What the hell happened to you? You loved the APC in MAG, now it's "death to all vehicles" as if they did something bad to you.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2687
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Posted - 2015.01.06 22:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:psychotic ravings from a pilophobe maniac Because all you do is whine, complain, throw things, cry, scream, hit yourself when vehicles kill you. Again, WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO DECIDE VEHICLES' FATE? I'm not trying to be the only one to decide. I'm trying to give input to an important part of the game. No one person should decide any part of this game.
YES YOU ARE!
Jesus christ, do you even understand what you're saying?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2687
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Posted - 2015.01.06 22:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:
*psychotic ramblings from a non-pilot*
Without veins popping out of your beet-red face and spittle flying everywhere, repeat that in human words instead of stark-raving mad incoherent babble.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2687
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Posted - 2015.01.06 22:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mahal Daj wrote:I agree with OP, the ONLY thing that the pilot suit should do... other than suck at combat... is increase the ammo that a vehicle can carry.
Part of the charm of Dust is the ability of any suit to fall from that dropship, take the objective, have your friend snipe an LAV driver, hack it, and drive off into the sunset. Reducing playability does not equal 'content added'
k? thx
-daj
Then what's the point of investing SP? How about the only thing a sentinel suit does is allow you to carry more ammo for a heavy weapon? No bonus to heavy weapon fitting, no resistances to weapons. How does that sound?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.06 23:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:What if pilot suits enhanced specific aspects of vehicle play but gave drawbacks to others? So that donning a pilot suit allows you to specialise your vehicle towards a certain playstyle at the expense of making it weaker in other areas? For example,moff the top of my head:
Gallente - increases acceleration and blaster weapon damage at the cost of turning speed and weapon range. (Gallente doctrine of fast moving and hard hitting, CQC brutality).
Caldari - decreases spool time on rail weapons and increases velocity and range of missiles at the expense of top speed and armoir hp. In tanks, it increases zoom optics. (Caldari doctrine of delivering unrivalled firepower at extreme ranges with excellent precision).
Minmatar - increases RoF with all weapon types and increases top speed at the expense of total ammunition reserves and weapon accuracy. (Minmatar doctrine of hit and run attacks that overwhelm targets with wall of bullets).
Amarr - increases armour resistance module duration and strength and ammo reserves at the expense of turning speed and acceleration. In tanks, turret tracking speed is increased. (Amarr doctrine of stand and deliver with superior resilience and sustained firepower that is difficult to evade).
You equip the suit and you lose something to gain something. Sounds reasonable?
Why should pilot suits have specific drawbacks when infantry has none? Bugger off, this isn't Infantry 514.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.06 23:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:I'm incredibly hesitant towards the role of a pilot suit, as similar to current design, either it says "**** you, you need to dump more sp in this role" or it's functionally useless, which I believe is something that's incredibly wrong with current vehicle design - either you have ALL the sp in vehicles and get to run fits without cpu chips / pg upgrades, or you don't and you have to use cpu chips / pg upgrades.
It becomes a situation where either they function without it, or you *MUST* have one in order to have a reasonable hope at success.
That said there was an idea that I did enjoy for the pilot suit in regards to tanks. wearing a pilot suit allowed the pilot to control the small turret mounted ontop of their large turret - they couldn't be aimed independently, but they would both shoot at the same spot (using the unused L2 trigger for the small turret) - this would have accompanied a redesigned large blaster that functioned more like a PLC turret. With that said though, it's probably a terrible idea and not possible to balance.
Ultimately I want the SP I spend in vehicles to feel meaningful throughout, not simply be a determiner of whether or not I have to fit a pg/cpu module
How do you fit a vehicle up without having a pilot suit on the fitting screen?
Terrible idea from a non-pilot, as usual.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 00:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:incoherent drooling I'm not the one trying to ruin the game for a small subsection of the community/playerbase. You are. Who the hell are you to say pilots don't want the pilot suit? YOU'RE NOT A PILOT. Who the hell are you to determine what pilots get? Morons like you have been deciding the direction vehicles go in since the game was only accessible on the weekends. What the hell more do you want? If you want vehicles removed, which I'm sure you do but don't have the stones to actually say it, then get a petition together and present it to CCP to be voted on by the community. Go find another game to ruin. YOU'RE the one acting like a child, with all this "my way or the highway" trash. We just want vehicles to be worth the SP again. You don't want them to be worth anything. Go to Call of Duty. Actually speaker, I think the whole community would rather you go to call of duty or need for speed ,whichever you prefer just leave.
Of course, because I won't play along to get along.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 01:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Do me a favor Spkr, google FPS. Actually, there. Where does it talk about Vehicles there? (Might be an idea to be thankful for their inclusion rather than view it as an entitlement) Because "FPS" means "no vehicles allowed ever."If you "don't want some idiot making you show up on the mini-map to get bombed" why push for removable turrets and not for Vehicle Locks (I know why, I was there in squad when you and English discussed it, do you remember that? I remember "no bluedots" being a secondary reasoning for the push)? We asked for it numerous times for a long time, we didn't get locks. Your question is moot.lol "death to all vehicles", really? You really need to get your facts straight before you go telling people incorrect things about me. I've never said "death to all vehicles" and saying that is how I feel is terribly wrong. I want for there to be a good and decent balance between vehicles and AV. I want us to get all of the vehicles we've been offered though not delivered. Why do you even care about racial parity if you're not going to use them? I never cared about infantry parity because I had far more SP into vehicles than I did infantry. Now the reverse is true, where most of my SP is in infantry, at least 40mil, while vehicle SP is relegated into a "use it if I have to" role. You only know my MAG experience with Vehicles and you don't care to inquire about or to try to understand my Dust experience with Vehicles seeking only to deride it since it isn't the same as what you've chosen to experience in Dust. If you had any experience with vehicles in Dust, you wouldn't have an irrational fear and hatred of them.BTW, I still do the things we used to do in MAG with an APC, only now I do it with an LAV. I still use vehicles to compliment my infantry pursuits rather than pursuing vehicles to the exclusion of all else. I've never seen you in a vehicle as the driver or a passenger. I do however remember you complaining that none of us could hack fast. Why? Because I had far more SP into vehicles and didn't really care about infantry.
Just go away.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 01:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Of course, because I won't play along to get along.
No, because you're a judgemental ******* who spouts off without knowing anything about people in question (aka 'you're not a tanker'... to people who either have vehicle alts, or to people who have 2/3rds of their sp into vehicles) and does everything they can to stifle positive discussion. If you stopped having such kneejerk responses and being so belligerent you might find it easier to discuss things with people.
lol "vehicle alts"
Those that have "vehicle alts" still spout out the nonsense about how easy it is to use a vehicle and how difficult they are to destroy. Their opinion is moot because of that, especially if "they have 2/3 of their SP into vehicles." That makes them a majority pilot, and if they still complain about how hard AV is to use and how difficult it is to destroy vehicles, they might as well cut off their feet if they don't like the way they look.
Positive discussion? There is no "positive discussion" when someone that's not a pilot speaks for all those that ARE pilots and says "pilots don't want the pilot suit." There cannot be any rational discussion with someone that insane. That's like Hannibal Lector saying he eats people because he's hungry.
There cannot be rational discussion with people like that.
Belligerent? Hostile? Difficult? What do you expect me to do when infantry dictates the direction of vehicles, be quiet and say "thank you sir may I have another?" I'm supposed to shut my mouth when these people tell me how I'm supposed to play my desired role?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 01:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
Of course, because I won't play along to get along.
No, because you're a judgemental ******* who spouts off without knowing anything about people in question (aka 'you're not a tanker'... to people who either have vehicle alts, or to people who have 2/3rds of their sp into vehicles) and does everything they can to stifle positive discussion. If you stopped having such kneejerk responses and being so belligerent you might find it easier to discuss things with people. lol "vehicle alts" Those that have "vehicle alts" still spout out the nonsense about how easy it is to use a vehicle and how difficult they are to destroy. Their opinion is moot because of that, especially if "they have 2/3 of their SP into vehicles." That makes them a majority pilot, and if they still complain about how hard AV is to use and how difficult it is to destroy vehicles, they might as well cut off their feet if they don't like the way they look. Positive discussion? There is no "positive discussion" when someone that's not a pilot speaks for all those that ARE pilots and says "pilots don't want the pilot suit." There cannot be any rational discussion with someone that insane. That's like Hannibal Lector saying he eats people because he's hungry. There cannot be rational discussion with people like that. Belligerent? Hostile? Difficult? What do you expect me to do when infantry dictates the direction of vehicles, be quiet and say "thank you sir may I have another?" I'm supposed to shut my mouth when these people tell me how I'm supposed to play my desired role? Okay, you've got me really confused here. Which side of this argument are you on? Are you just going after the OP for "infantry dictating vehicle design" or are you actually advocating pilot suits?
I hate infantry dictating the direction vehicles go in, and yeah, I want the pilot suits because I'm a pilot.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 01:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Okay, you've got me really confused here.
Which side of this argument are you on? Are you just going after the OP for "infantry dictating vehicle design" or are you actually advocating pilot suits? Basically it boils down to SPKR feels that only he and the circle of people that he personally acknowledges should have any input as to what goes on with vehicles. Doesn't matter how much experience, knowledge or even SP you have into vehicles, unless he's accepted you you're 'not a tanker/pilot'. He's a walking 'no true scotsman fallacy'
No, what I don't accept are crazy ideas, such as what Aztec said. He's not a pilot, who the hell is he to speak for pilots? We don't want pilot suits? How does he know? Did he set up a survey and ask us to fill it out? No, he didn't. He's not a pilot, what gives him the right to speak for us?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 02:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:"THEY'RE NOT VEHICLE USERS UNLESS I SAY THEY'RE VEHICLE USERS!".
He's not a pilot.
Are you an aspergers spectrum by chance spkr? because the stomping the feet, screaming, tantrums and stubbornness is the type of behaviour I'd expect from someone with that disorder.
That's just insulting. Childish tactics, insulting someone in that fashion.
I for one am a vehicle user that *doesn't* want pilot suits because I think they'll be an arbitrary SP sink. In conversations I've had with a CPM member or two (I'll try not to misrepresent the CPM member I talked to here and assert that this is what I as a person got from the conversation), we talked about vehicle sp vs infantry sp, and touched on pilot suits. To sum it up, my position was largely that every skillpoint spent on infantry skills is inherently more valuable than any skillpoint spent on vehicles as infantry sp carries over to more roles and is applicable more often and in more diverse ways than vehicle sp and that I dislike the large plateaus of skillpoints in vehicles and the feeling that vehicles are a skillpoint 'sink' - a 'supplementary' role rather than a 'primary' role. The response I got from the CPM member was that 'well, we still want any given vehicle role to take as many skillpoints as their 'comparative' infantry counterpart and in that regard vehicles end up being about 3-4m sp less expensive than infantry'.
So, since they'll SP sinks to you, that means the rest of us don't want them? That's nice.
From the brief conversation that we had, what I got was that pilot suits were basically there just to cost sp so as to make things 'evenly costed'.
See above
Now to address your comments of 'infantry shouldn't have a say', that is outright wrong. Infantry should have a say, otherwise vehicle 'balance' just becomes a joke - an echo room where people want more and better things. Non-pilots have concerns about how vehicles will affect their gameplay every bit as much as we have concerns about how they affect ours and their concerns do have merit. The only people I feel should be dismissed out of hand are people who cannot have a logical discussion based on facts and sound reasoning, not fallacies, ad hominem and appeals to emotion.
Infantry have had the only word on vehicles for 3 years. Vehicles have been consistently nerfed over that time, while AV has been consistently buffed. Ask anybody that's been here for that long. They'll tell you the same thing. I regularly play with someone that's been a pilot for far longer than I have. He knows what the deal is. AV = nuclear option/ vehicles = lolfest, unless you have significant time as a pilot.
And how infantry can work? Well.... I have probably over 40mil into infantry now, so yeah, I can comment on it. Not much into AV, because I prefer to use a tank. Why? Not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
As I said before, a rational discussion cannot be had when someone that isn't a pilot speaks for all pilots, in claiming that none of us want the pilot suit. Someone like that cannot be reasoned with. With infantry, it's been all take take take. They've never given us any concessions when it came to tweaks/rebuilding/nerfing and buffing. Not a single thing. Why did 1.7 happen? Because infantry complained. Why did 1.8 nerf tanks even more? Because infantry complained.
A rational conversation cannot happen with people like that. We adapted to all those nerfs, yet still came out on top. What does infantry do? THEY STILL COMPLAIN.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2688
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Posted - 2015.01.07 05:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:So by your metric then, you're not even a tanker Spkr, you shouldn't have a say - go run around playing your ground game while the big boys talk, If you were a real pilot you'd have more sp in vehicles than in infantry.
Also, I loved the continued foot stamping, and handwaived denials of actual concerns, and assertions without any basis. You're still throwing a tantrum over balance changes that you perceive to have come from a mysterious antagonist you call 'av players'.
There's no point in even talking to you about this or well... anything really, there is no positive discussion to be had with you and your incredible bias and perceived slights. As you have said, why talk to someone who cannot be reasoned with.
I prefer being a pilot over infantry, problem is infantry is far more versatile and rewarding ISK-wise most of the time. I'd much, much rather be in any vehicle over my boots being on the ground.
Tank = 400k ISK
BPO suit = 0 ISK
You tell me which brings in more ISK at the end of a match.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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