DUST Search - Double Minded... Tank and my Personal Experience with them.

Sir Dukey wrote:

Militia tanks need nerfs-
There is no reason for Militia tanks to be driving around with Complex modules and ADV-PROTO Turrets.

Pilots were able to fit a glass Soma that could destroy a Marauder in 3 shots. 3 passive damage mods, maybe a heat sink and a compressed particle cannon. I agree that that was ridiculously insane, but MLT should have few fitting options. As it stands now, they do the job of STD tanks with all the core skills freakishly well, and it's almost not worth it to skill into vehicles, because why waste all that SP and ISK when you can drive around in MLT and do almost as good a job?

-Those thingies that gave both shield and armor hardener bonuses need to be reintroduced (forgot the name)

Damage control unit I believe. I didn't really use them because the bonus they offered just wasn't enough for me.

Last but not Least- Turret Variations back

This exactly. The small fragmented could come back with half the damage of the current small missile launcher, .5m more slash radius and firing 50% faster or so. It would allow the Python to really come back as an anti-infantry vehicle, because as far as I'm concerned, I'd much prefer the faster fire rate with half the damage for increased margin of error, rather than hoping for a body shot as I do now with a railgun.

I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim

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Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1468	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:14:00 - [1] - Quote Background info- I have been Tanking since Chromosome and Tanks brought me into this game. I made an ALT to rack up passive SP so one day I can play as Infantry or test stuff out(This Account). They were my main focus. As soon as Uprising hit Tanks were being obliterated. Biggest problems with Uprising tanks- They were slow Very limited on PG because our engineering skill passive PG bonus was taken away. As players started accumulating SP, every one had PROTO AV and the closest thing we had to Proto Tanks were Enforcers who had a 36-38% movement Penalty base- they also came with horrible skills... Forgeguns had 600m range and Swarms did 180 degree turns around obstacles and also had 400m range. Swarms also did a crap ton of damage due to the fact that proficiency skill applied to Damage on both Shields and Armor. Also, damage mods were 10% instead of 7%. Swarms also had larger Clips. Armor tanks destroyed Shield tanks like Cake. Shield tanks were weak. Active Shield hardeners were severly unbalanced and UP compared to the Active Armor tanking modules. Armor hardeners [15 second cool down/ 60 second duration] 25% resistance Shield hardeners [30 second cool down/ 10 second duration] 30% resistance Shield boosters V.S. Heavy armor repair units were also severely UP. -I might be wrong on exact so I will estimate- Armor Repairs repaired 400 every sec for 15 sec. Shield Boosters repaired 300 every 3 secs for 15 secs -Armor tanks had more HP, were faster, more tanky, could easily equip damage mods and Active fuel injectors. Armor tanks may have seemed like GODS compared to shield tanks but compared them to AV and Armor tanks got popped like balloons vs. a Needle. Shield tanks got dropped even faster and FG did a lot more damage as well. AV nades did over 6000 damage in 4 seconds and when you sat on a nanohive, it didn't really require FG/SL ect to take down tanks. All you needed were supply hives and AV nades Tanks were expensive as hell often costing between 2.5 million-8 million for a "good" fit. Enough about the flaws- lets talk about the Pros Tanks back then had variability. They were fun to fit, everybody had different fits and they were fun other than the fact we were blow to bits with ease. Also blaster turrets had Anti Infantry capabilities unlike today where vehicle turrets are inefficient at killing infantry. What I hope to see in the future- I hope to see the variability returned. I also hope to see passive bonuses to having skills in something. I hope to see Marauders and Enforcers back and I hope to see more slots for all tanks so we can have our variability. I have to say Chromosome was the Golden Age.... Tanks weren't invulnerable but they felt like tanks. A Force on the field. A force that can change the outcome of a battle. I often see people complain about Chromosome tanks but the truth is.. those Marauders back then costs 2.5 million + isk and they shouldn't be easily brought down by ADV or even Proto weapons. They also were like a drop suit except much more expensive SP wise. Also people back then didn't really have Proto AV- they usually had starter fits and maybe advanced. Overall- 2.5 mil ISK is a huggee investment. I can lose 20 proto suits for the price of one of those tanks. When they went down there was a glorious moment on the field. Everybody felt like they had accomplished something but those tanks were Feared and they were deadly. I loved the 'investment' and since 1.7 that isn't there and since Uprising it wasn't worth it. Currently there are threads going around saying Tanks require no buffs and AV require no Nerfs and that is fine. But Tanks require a change in role. There is no point to tanking anymore. You can't kill infantry- Installations are indestructible especially the ones in the redline and installations have too much HP. No only do they destroy ADV game play but they interfere with infantry as well. It's quite annoying losing 500k isk tanks to one stupid installation or 400k isk ADS because they get three shotted by those rails. AV is powerful toward tanks except tanks aren't powerful toward Infantry- What? It's funny how Infantry say Large Blaster isn't mean to be Anti Infantry. What is it mean for? It's horrible at TANK v TANK and horrible at TANK v INFANTRY. It would be nice if CCP reintroduced the Large blasters of 1.6 and Chromosome. In chromosome- If you wanted to play with a blaster you had to accept the fact that you had no AV ability against other good tanks. That is the way it should be- you give up one thing for the other. When people us rail rifles- they give up the ability to fight CQC but in return get a really good long range combat weapon. That is the way the blaster should be- It should be mediocre at AV (Like it is right now) but efficient at taking out infantry. I can literally come at a Prototype Blaster Madrugar and rip him to shreds with my militia railgun and standard Missiles. But at the same time I can do circles around him with my Assault and he wouldn't be able to kill me. Large Blaster needs it's accuracy back. Nobody likes spray and Pay. Pin point accuracy please. Small railgun turret needs it's hit detection fixed Small Blaster needs more range and way less dispersion Smal Missile is just baddd when fighting from the ground. - no buffs needed Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1468	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:14:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
LUGMOS Quafe Premium 1369	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:19:00 - [3] - Quote My answer: yes Tank fitting variety FTW. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1928	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:30:00 - [4] - Quote You know I miss rolling in in my double dammage modded sagi with frag missiles . It used to be a beast . Proper team work was needed to bring that 5 mill monster down. But I also miss soloing bad sagi pilots with my heavy vk1 and iasfg it was an awesome era in dust balance wise. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1470	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:32:00 - [5] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: You know I miss rolling in in my double dammage modded sagi with frag missiles . It used to be a beast . Proper team work was needed to bring that 5 mill monster down. But I also miss soloing bad sagi pilots with my heavy vk1 and iasfg it was an awesome era in dust balance wise. Vehicle vs AV was on point bro. JK somethings were broken on both sides. What we should do is look at the positives that occurred throughout the history of dust and put them together. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6858	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:34:00 - [6] - Quote reasonable. +1 Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1928	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:42:00 - [7] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: pegasis prime wrote: You know I miss rolling in in my double dammage modded sagi with frag missiles . It used to be a beast . Proper team work was needed to bring that 5 mill monster down. But I also miss soloing bad sagi pilots with my heavy vk1 and iasfg it was an awesome era in dust balance wise. Vehicle vs AV was on point bro. JK somethings were broken on both sides. What we should do is look at the positives that occurred throughout the history of dust and put them together. You know i only ever knew 3 other mercs other than myself who had proto av back in chrome an ill tell you it decimated most vehicles av tank balance wise chrome was actually really bad but it seemed balanced because so very few folks had proto av well i guess that was balance enough. Tank vrs tank it was good i remember corp battles ware 2 tanks would be a must on several maps my old tanking buddy herric arcos (one of the best armour tankers iv ever seen back in chrome) used to roll tight he allways used the scatterd ion cannon an well i loved either the comp rails or fragd missiels. I really mis the feel of the corp battles back then it was all about pride and skill not aboit making stupid sums of isk or keeping hold of piggy banks like pc was. Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4961	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:45:00 - [8] - Quote They need to revert every change made after 1.7 to get me interested in vehicles again. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1470	Posted - 2015.01.05 21:51:00 - [9] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: They need to revert every change made after 1.7 to get me interested in vehicles again. Be careful what you wish for. Do you really mean "Every" change including like scout suits and new dropsuits and infantry balancing? Positives have come from 1.7, for example Swarm range was reduced and so was FG range. Damage mods went from 10%->5% (heavy) and proficiency changed for the better. (For at least shield tanks) Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1470	Posted - 2015.01.05 22:25:00 - [10] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: reasonable. +1 No complaints? Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6160	Posted - 2015.01.05 23:03:00 - [11] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: pegasis prime wrote: You know I miss rolling in in my double dammage modded sagi with frag missiles . It used to be a beast . Proper team work was needed to bring that 5 mill monster down. But I also miss soloing bad sagi pilots with my heavy vk1 and iasfg it was an awesome era in dust balance wise. Vehicle vs AV was on point bro. JK somethings were broken on both sides. What we should do is look at the positives that occurred throughout the history of dust and put them together. You know i only ever knew 3 other mercs other than myself who had proto av back in chrome an ill tell you it decimated most vehicles av tank balance wise chrome was actually really bad but it seemed balanced because so very few folks had proto av well i guess that was balance enough. Tank vrs tank it was good i remember corp battles ware 2 tanks would be a must on several maps my old tanking buddy herric arcos (one of the best armour tankers iv ever seen back in chrome) used to roll tight he allways used the scatterd ion cannon an well i loved either the comp rails or fragd missiels. I really mis the feel of the corp battles back then it was all about pride and skill not aboit making stupid sums of isk or keeping hold of piggy banks like pc was. Proto AV was balanced versus marauders. ADV AV was good for gunnlogis and maddies Militia tanks were a fair fight for STD. Of course I whipped out the Protoforges whenever I saw a tank in play just in case it was a Mad. Oops. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 2102	Posted - 2015.01.05 23:20:00 - [12] - Quote Damage control units are the modules you're thinking of. Also remote reppers need to get back in. Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1470	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:04:00 - [13] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Damage control units are the modules you're thinking of. Also remote reppers need to get back in. thx Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1475	Posted - 2015.01.06 02:40:00 - [14] - Quote Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2241	Posted - 2015.01.06 04:22:00 - [15] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: +1 "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4963	Posted - 2015.01.06 04:45:00 - [16] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: They need to revert every change made after 1.7 to get me interested in vehicles again. Be careful what you wish for. Do you really mean "Every" change including like scout suits and new dropsuits and infantry balancing? Positives have come from 1.7, for example Swarm range was reduced and so was FG range. Damage mods went from 10%->5% (heavy) and proficiency changed for the better. (For at least shield tanks) Every change made to vehicles then add in the substitutes for the Amarr & matar vehicles and then balance from there. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1505	Posted - 2015.01.06 04:51:00 - [17] - Quote I imagine it hurt to lose a 2.5M Enforcer back in Chromosome, but what is 2.5M to a proto stomp squad today? How many billions and billions of Isk did proto stompers like Nyain San farm from PC? Matchmaking already affords proto stomp squads invariably low risk of loss. Mammoth tanks would threaten to lessen low risk and increase the severity of already lopsided beatdowns. And unlike in Chromosome, a high price tag will mean little if anything at all.
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1904	Posted - 2015.01.06 05:17:00 - [18] - Quote Remove all vehicles. The horror! The horror! ( -íº -£-û -íº)
Texas Killionaire Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 449	Posted - 2015.01.06 05:19:00 - [19] - Quote Agree. Tanks should be feared. For the record again: I don't vehicle. 707 "The Mister Rogers of Dust" - nickmunson FOR THE STATE
Schlong Cancer Intara Direct Action Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.01.06 05:56:00 - [20] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I imagine it hurt to lose a 2.5M Enforcer back in Chromosome, but what is 2.5M to a proto stomp squad today? How many billions and billions of Isk did proto stompers like Nyain San farm from PC? Exactly i truly believe there will never be balance with vehicles. They will always be underpowered or overpowered

Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2683	Posted - 2015.01.06 06:39:00 - [21] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Militia tanks need nerfs- There is no reason for Militia tanks to be driving around with Complex modules and ADV-PROTO Turrets. Pilots were able to fit a glass Soma that could destroy a Marauder in 3 shots. 3 passive damage mods, maybe a heat sink and a compressed particle cannon. I agree that that was ridiculously insane, but MLT should have few fitting options. As it stands now, they do the job of STD tanks with all the core skills freakishly well, and it's almost not worth it to skill into vehicles, because why waste all that SP and ISK when you can drive around in MLT and do almost as good a job? -Those thingies that gave both shield and armor hardener bonuses need to be reintroduced (forgot the name) Damage control unit I believe. I didn't really use them because the bonus they offered just wasn't enough for me. Last but not Least- Turret Variations back This exactly. The small fragmented could come back with half the damage of the current small missile launcher, .5m more slash radius and firing 50% faster or so. It would allow the Python to really come back as an anti-infantry vehicle, because as far as I'm concerned, I'd much prefer the faster fire rate with half the damage for increased margin of error, rather than hoping for a body shot as I do now with a railgun. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2683	Posted - 2015.01.06 06:42:00 - [22] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: They need to revert every change made after 1.7 to get me interested in vehicles again. Be careful what you wish for. Do you really mean "Every" change including like scout suits and new dropsuits and infantry balancing? Positives have come from 1.7, for example Swarm range was reduced and so was FG range. Damage mods went from 10%->5% (heavy) and proficiency changed for the better. (For at least shield tanks) There's another 10%-15% proficiency for the forge against armor. Rail has proficiency against armor. Swarms are just ridiculous. Swarm lock on was great, but I don't remember the forge ever having more than 300m range. I don't think he meant every single change since 1.7. I think he meant as far as vehicles were concerned. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2683	Posted - 2015.01.06 06:44:00 - [23] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I imagine it hurt to lose a 2.5M Enforcer back in Chromosome, but what is 2.5M to a proto stomp squad today? How many billions and billions of Isk did proto stompers like Nyain San farm from PC? Enforcers were a lot to the individual pilots. I'm sure there were more than a few that needed money up front to get 10 fits ready for a match. I never bothered with them but still had the hefty price tag of 1.5mil ISK for a PC-capable tank. I did have lesser fits that cost less, but I didn't use anything less than the best for PC. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1480	Posted - 2015.01.06 12:38:00 - [24] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I imagine it hurt to lose a 2.5M Enforcer back in Chromosome, but what is 2.5M to a proto stomp squad today? How many billions and billions of Isk did proto stompers like Nyain San farm from PC? Come on now, you can't just refrain vehicles from buffs just because one Corp has a lot of ISK. I have 80 million myself and it hurts when you lose a 2.5 million isk tank. Also, for everything there is a counter so if AV doesn't work... get an Enforcer. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS 1418	Posted - 2015.01.06 16:36:00 - [25] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: What we should do is look at the positives that occurred throughout the history of dust and put them together. THIS.
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS 1281	Posted - 2015.01.06 16:43:00 - [26] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I imagine it hurt to lose a 2.5M Enforcer back in Chromosome, but what is 2.5M to a proto stomp squad today? How many billions and billions of Isk did proto stompers like Nyain San farm from PC? Come on now, you can't just refrain vehicles from buffs just because one Corp has a lot of ISK. I have 80 million myself and it hurts when you lose a 2.5 million isk tank. Also, for everything there is a counter so if AV doesn't work... get an Enforcer. That counter cannot be itself. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 488	Posted - 2015.01.06 16:52:00 - [27] - Quote i've always used the blaster turret. and I really never had an issue with it in Tank v Tank fights. my surya with an ion cannon and 2 xt-cycled missiles (these were broken with their .8 re-fire and 400 odd direct damge) would shred any contender. thanks to the decent range on the cycles could hold off sagis/rail tanks. once the surya was in range it was death.....for the enemy. 2.6mill for a tank capable of pushing the enemy back from our redline to thiers. while withering av and engaging tanks. chromosome was the best for vehicles. and av was more than capable of takeing us down. as it is now though. 1 av guy can still lock down all the vehicles on the map if he plays/fits right. same for chromosome. though thanks to blaster accuracy they ahd a chance at forcing the av guy away or killing him. If ccp brings back the surya/vayu. I will glady respect to max out their operation skills. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1483	Posted - 2015.01.06 20:50:00 - [28] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: I imagine it hurt to lose a 2.5M Enforcer back in Chromosome, but what is 2.5M to a proto stomp squad today? How many billions and billions of Isk did proto stompers like Nyain San farm from PC? Come on now, you can't just refrain vehicles from buffs just because one Corp has a lot of ISK. I have 80 million myself and it hurts when you lose a 2.5 million isk tank. Also, for everything there is a counter so if AV doesn't work... get an Enforcer. That counter cannot be itself. It's not but It can be the best. Just like now, the counter to a scout is a scout, the best counter to heavy is a heavy, the best counter to a sniper is a sniper, the best counter to a RR shooting from far away is a RR the best counter for the best CQC gun is the best CQC gun. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1483	Posted - 2015.01.06 20:51:00 - [29] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: i've always used the blaster turret. and I really never had an issue with it in Tank v Tank fights. my surya with an ion cannon and 2 xt-cycled missiles (these were broken with their .8 re-fire and 400 odd direct damge) would shred any contender. thanks to the decent range on the cycles could hold off sagis/rail tanks. once the surya was in range it was death.....for the enemy. 2.6mill for a tank capable of pushing the enemy back from our redline to thiers. while withering av and engaging tanks. chromosome was the best for vehicles. and av was more than capable of takeing us down. as it is now though. 1 av guy can still lock down all the vehicles on the map if he plays/fits right. same for chromosome. though thanks to blaster accuracy they ahd a chance at forcing the av guy away or killing him. If ccp brings back the surya/vayu. I will glady respect to max out their operation skills. I would have loved to see you try to take down my tripple damage modded prototype railgun Sagaris from 600m away. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 64	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:58:00 - [30] - Quote I want Force Recon Dropships. Remember those? I'm not sure if they ever got into the beta at any point. But HELL there was plans to give them cloaks and capacitor vampires. ( i'm unsure how capacitor vampires could work if we don't have centralized capacitors but whatever ). Dust 514. A game about shooting people with super deadly sci-fi guns... and dancing.



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