As a tanker and ADS pilot, I can say that V/AV is pretty balanced atm, with the Gunnlogi being slightly OP and the Madrugar slightly UP, which is due to the fact that there is no anti shield AV barring the Plc, and the gunny having much better fitting capabilities. Not bragging, but if I'm facing a single AV'er, whether in a tank or ADS, I never lose the vehicle (except JLAV. F*** those things).It's just a skill based thing, when you drive or fly for a while you don't lose to 1 AV guy.

The only things that vehicles need right now is more variation(see Ratatti HAV bring back intitiative), nerf the ability of the Gunny to dual tank while buffing up Maddy PG/CPU to where it can fit proto tank and turret with skills maxed like the gunny can, and that's probably about it. Slight nerf to Shield regen while making it constant would be good too.

Tank vs tank and ds vs ds is an amazing place right now, my issue is with av vs vehicles. There is never just 1 av guy and I do agree it is a skill based thing and I've been taking for a while, not as long as others but I've seen my fair share of PC's and would like to think I've shown what I'm capable of there, however you can't do much against something that you can't run nor hide from....


I've talked/messaged a few people in game...

Jammeh Mcjam told me this point and it's hands down the best arguement for vehicles v av in my opinion, it goes as follows:

"How would AV players feel if all they had was standard AV vs Proto vehicles? As the Standard tanks have to deal with proto AV as of the moment with out an option."


While the madrugar isn't 100% up to par with gunlogi's fitting capabilities it can still do one thing that gunlogi's cannot which still makes it a tad better in my opinion...

I won't totally derail your thread but lets just take a look at a few things

Difference Between the fitting Potential of a Madrugar and Gunnlogi

Madrugar
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/10228
Raw Total HP = 7085 HP
Average Armor eHP = 7887 Armor eHP (Calcs: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2519975#post2519975)
Average Shield eHP = 1200 Shield eHP
Total Average eHP = 9087 Total eHP

Average Time to Regen 100% of Armor eHP: (Calcs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPXFzLUtbfpCLyCjAoDnoML7L8Nh7VZXMF1Bdhqajdo/edit?usp=sharing)
Complex Armor Repair: 43 seconds
Enhanced Armor Repair: 53 seconds
Basic Armor Repair: 59 seconds


http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/10227
Raw Total HP = 6925 HP
Average Shield eHP = 6877 Shield eHP
Average Armor eHP = 2950 Armor eHP
Total Average eHP = 9827 Total eHP

Average time to Regen 100% of Shield eHP: (Calcs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KPXFzLUtbfpCLyCjAoDnoML7L8Nh7VZXMF1Bdhqajdo/edit?usp=sharing)
Natural Shield Regen (No Modules): 28 seconds


In short, you can similar levels of raw HP between a shield and armor HAV. When hardeners are taken into account the shield vehicle ends up with around 800 more eHP overall. Additionally the Gunnlogi's natural shield recharge rate, which requires no modules, regens faster than the best heavy armor repairer with maxed out skills. Also because shield hardeners are more effective (15% better) than armor hardeners, this means that most of its eHP is because of high resistance and not raw HP. However since regen effects only the raw HP, the effective regen rate is actually significantly higher than the listed value. So in short the Gunnlogi is capable of more eHp than the Madrugar as well as a significantly higher regen rate.

While it is true that a Gunnlogi can forgo the armor plate in place of more utility and better turrets, the Madrugar I linked above is the best defenses it can muster, leaving it with nothing in the high slots and a standard large blaster (It is incapable of fitting a Railgun or Missile turret due to CPU restrictions). So with the current balance of resources, the Gunnlogi is guaranteed to have either better defenses, offense, or utility over the Madrugar in essentially every case. This is far from "an amazing place" in terms of balance.

Quite true, its pretty terrible at AV. I consider it the most AP-centric Large turret which is fine but its AV capabilities still fall too short.

I'm more inclined to suggest something like a 25mm gun or the CZ75 from PS2

Remove all vehicles.