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Mad Kras
SVER True Blood
149
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Posted - 2015.01.01 20:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
We all know that the Amarr Scout is by far the less popular and as an attempt to change this I decided to share my thoughts and fittings on this often underestimated suit and I'd like everybody with some experience with this suit to do the same. I'll start saying that this is not a tutorial on how to instakill and stomp everybody around so if that's what you've expected leave now.
So as we all know the best game mod for a scout is of course skirmish, the ability to roam at between points without being spotted gives great tactical advantage to scouts, being able to see how the battlefield evolves and respond correctly is the essence of being a scout. Back to the Amarr scout what does it offers? Each level gives you a bonus to stamina and it's recovery rate and additionally adds scan precision making it great for counter scouting, it sacrifice a some speed in favor of more hp so it can withstad more punishment than othe scouts if fitted for that porpose. As you can see the suit lacks the speed of the minmatar and the profile damps of the Gallente and Caldari so it's not an effective platform for infiltration and stealth killingand is not ment to be played that way. With his stats the Amarr scout is perfect for flanking and taking on enemies from where they less expected, stamina and regen allows it to fastly cover great distance and the hp allows it to fullfill the role of an secon line Assault when needed.
Here is my typical suit for pubs: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/1668/10639
It is ment to be a balance between a scout and an assault making it universal, the additional armor allows it to survive a longer gunfight at the same time not sacrificing speed, one complex damp is more than enough for pubs where a decent active scanner is absent in the 90% of the fights, some people may like to put on a kincat to compensate the speed but I prefer to rely on it's strenghts more than trying to compesate it's weakness. I find the light DMG mods (no, not that corp) to suit my playstyle better than extenders as I'll probably always be the first to open fire from long range quickly taking down the enemy and keeping moving forward. Talking about weaponry equipment I prefer an ARR as it gives me the ability to be effective both in CQC and long range, sidearm is optional, I use the ScR pistol cuz I just love this gun, EMP nades for point and equipment clearing, Cloak and RE, alternated with links or an injector according to what your team needs. On the Adv version I just get rid of the ferroscale and downgrade the ARR to Adv. Hope all that stuff helped you. Also I'd like to ask you to share your opinions and fittings on the topic.
Arrogance and sarcasm lvl 5
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JUPA SACH
Ahrendee Mercenaries
323
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Posted - 2015.01.01 22:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ive used the amarr scout since it was created and still dont understand why people think its UP, maybe it needs a bit more of speed but nothing else. My fits with it: Shotgun fit: 2 Complex Damps, 1 Complex KinCat, 1 Complex Reactive Plate, 1 Enhanced Shield, 1 Complex Shield, Remote and adv Cloack, Duvolle SG, Boundles breach SMG. Any oher weapon fit: 2 Complex Presition, 4 Complex Reactive Plate, Core Nade, Adv Cloack, Adv Nanohive, Boundles Breach SMG, Viziam SR.
Karma
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
732
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Posted - 2015.01.01 22:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fool all scouts are supposed to go extinct. It doesnt matter which scout started to offend other people they just will be nerfed until a starter fit is more viable then a scout at proto.
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6734
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Posted - 2015.01.01 23:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
JUPA SACH wrote:Ive used the amarr scout since it was created and still dont understand why people think its UP, maybe it needs a bit more of speed but nothing else. My fits with it: Shotgun fit: 2 Complex Damps, 1 Complex KinCat, 1 Complex Reactive Plate, 1 Enhanced Shield, 1 Complex Shield, Remote and adv Cloack, Duvolle SG, Boundles breach SMG. Any oher weapon fit: 2 Complex Precision, 4 Complex Reactive Plate, Core Nade, Adv Cloack, Adv Nanohive, Boundles Breach SMG, Viziam SR. All I remember is that I absolutely wrecked people with it when it first came out.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1431
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Posted - 2015.01.02 00:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy |
Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact Back and Forth
6729
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Posted - 2015.01.02 00:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy As soon as that change is made I would delete all my Amarr scout fits.
CBM
[Event]Dust Hunger Games
PC, ISK,EVE, Corp Services
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Protected Void
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
325
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Posted - 2015.01.02 01:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy As soon as that change is made I would delete all my Amarr scout fits.
That makes two of us. |
Protocake JR
USA Caucasians
1629
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Posted - 2015.01.02 01:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Is there an Amarr scout chat channel?
It would be pretty cool to do an "all Amarr Scout" squad or qsync. |
Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
1935
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Posted - 2015.01.02 01:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
It is underused for the same reason Min sentinels are underused.
Neither of them fit their role very well.
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Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3134
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Posted - 2015.01.02 01:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Amarr deserve destruction. Extinction of the Amarr would be a wonderful dessert.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1435
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Posted - 2015.01.02 01:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy As soon as that change is made I would delete all my Amarr scout fits. Pre-falloff, I ran AM Scout roughly 25% of the time in pubs and 50-75% of the time in PC. I now run it 0% of the time, and I'm not alone in this; the suit's usage rates have quite plainly plummeted and with good reason. It's former strength is now far less valuable than the strengths of other scout suits.
If the precision bonus were changed to biotics and Rattati moves forward with the Myo jump bonus, I guarantee you'd see a spike in AM Scout use in both pubs and PC. Biotic builds would be fun, and in the right hands deadly. |
BLOOD Ruler
The Lionheart Coalition
739
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Posted - 2015.01.02 05:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bit ches,dumbas ses,foolishly dolts,and any other inferior infrant not Amarrian. I believe I have a solution,it involves the stamina regen of the Amarr scout and Minatar scout switch.
I will example farther in a topic I will make in Ideas
Feel The Burning Pain Of My Knives While Your Skull And Mind Is Wrecked By My Pistol.
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Protected Void
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
326
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Posted - 2015.01.02 07:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy As soon as that change is made I would delete all my Amarr scout fits. Prior to falloff, I ran AM Scout roughly 25% of my time in pubs and 50-75% of my time in PC. I now run it 0% of the time, and I'm not alone in this. The suit's usage rates have plummeted with good reason; its former strength and role have been greatly devalued. If the precision bonus were changed to a biotics bonus, I guarantee you'd see a spike in AM Scout use, both in pubs and PC. Further, if Rattati followed through with the Myo jump changes, biotic AM builds would become incredibly fun to run.
That may be so, but it would still ruin my playstyle. I want good enough precision to spot most scouts, the ability to dampen well and good speed. To my knowledge, no other suits can do that well enough. I don't think it makes sense to completely refocus a suit just because it got somewhat broken by the first iteration of scan falloff. Better to adjust the scan range and keep the suit within its intended niche. I already specced out of the cal scout once, due to the loss of precision bonus. It would really suck to have a bait and switch pulled on me yet again. |
Cenvast Teg
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.01.02 08:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
My usual AmScout - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/1680/10649
Drop uplinks to enable spawns behind/flanking enemy, LR for long range harassment/distraction, BScP for self defense and trying to sneak up on heavies.
Good for solo players to help the team as a whole as well as effective squad support.
<<< not an amazing player, just my personal build I like to use... |
Nirwanda Vaughns
1159
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Posted - 2015.01.02 11:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
what'd help is if CCP gave us second decade owners a 'Templar' Scout A-I BPO
Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
proud C-II bpo owner
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Clone D
Grundstein Automation
1284
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Posted - 2015.01.02 12:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
I use a completely BPO Amarr scout that shreds peeps for free:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/1659/10400
The scan range has been nerfed into uselessness, but I continue to thrash with this suit anyway.
ISK Trader
channel: blitz
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
1325
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Posted - 2015.01.02 13:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
You can do a logi with it too. Proto scrambler, 2 damage mods, 4 plates, and any combination of proto equipment really. Like proto tool, proto hive, or proto hive and proto injector.
Hp, dps, fast, logo.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1438
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Posted - 2015.01.02 14:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Protected Void wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy As soon as that change is made I would delete all my Amarr scout fits. Prior to falloff, I ran AM Scout roughly 25% of my time in pubs and 50-75% of my time in PC. I now run it 0% of the time, and I'm not alone in this. The suit's usage rates have plummeted with good reason; its former strength and role have been greatly devalued. If the precision bonus were changed to a biotics bonus, I guarantee you'd see a spike in AM Scout use, both in pubs and PC. Further, if Rattati followed through with the Myo jump changes, biotic AM builds would become incredibly fun to run. That may be so, but it would still ruin my playstyle. I want good enough precision to spot most scouts, the ability to dampen well and good speed. To my knowledge, no other suits can do that well enough. I don't think it makes sense to completely refocus a suit just because it got somewhat broken by the first iteration of scan falloff. Better to adjust the scan range and keep the suit within its intended niche. I already specced out of the cal scout once, due to the loss of precision bonus. It would really suck to have a bait and switch pulled on me yet again.
We were more-or-less told that "360 degree wallhack scans" have to go. I'd be thrilled to see Rattati make an exception for the AM Scout. He has good reason to, as its sole strength (counter-infiltration) was crippled by Falloff. But I don't see that happening.
Alternatively, tuning Falloff by extending inner ring range (or reversing the Range Extender nerf) could create new balance problems. Firstly, we'd see the AM Scout Recon immediately replaced by the Logi (equal scan strength in practice, better scan range, greater build flexibility, far greater squad utility). Secondly, we'd see improved performance by the already dominant Heavy+Logi blobs. Lastly, we'd increase the risk level of SG and NK play to a point well beyond imbalanced.
I don't see an easy fix here, Void. If we've ruled that "360 degree wallhack scans" have to go, then they should stay gone. In which case, the AM Scout should get a new role to fill and a perk overhaul to fit it. |
m621 zma
244
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Posted - 2015.01.02 14:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nothing wrong with the Amar scout suit as is.
Was a nice shotgunning scout hunter until the cloaked range nerf (but that isn't specific to the Amar scout) - I dumped my Amar scout after this so, don't know what it's like currently.
Would make some sense to swap the precision bonus with the Cal's range bonus but heck fuk the LORE! |
KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
6709
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Posted - 2015.01.02 14:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
I use the same Ak.0 scout only with Breach AR and 2 Precision enhancers instead of damage mods. Get in 30mts from me and be seen...XD (unless you are a GK.0 or Cal.0 scout with 2 cx profile damps)
Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1438
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Posted - 2015.01.02 14:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
m621 zma wrote: Nothing wrong with the Amar scout suit as is...
I dumped my Amar scout ... don't know what it's like currently.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1438
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Posted - 2015.01.02 15:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:I use the same Ak.0 scout only with Breach AR and 2 Precision enhancers instead of damage mods. Get in 30mts from me and be seen...XD (unless you are a GK.0 or Cal.0 scout with 2 cx profile damps)
30 meters?
Even if you're running straight scan mods, your inner ring is 9 meters and middle ring is 22 meters. Your outer ring may reach 30 meters, but it pings at 23 dB. Your scans are beat by GA/CA Scout with a single damp (20dB) or AM/CA Scout with two damps (18dB) or one damp + advanced cloak (22dB). |
KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
6709
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Posted - 2015.01.02 15:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:I use the same Ak.0 scout only with Breach AR and 2 Precision enhancers instead of damage mods. Get in 30mts from me and be seen...XD (unless you are a GK.0 or Cal.0 scout with 2 cx profile damps) 30 meters? Your max inner ring is 9 meters, and your max middle ring is 22 meters. At 30 meters, your outer ring pings at 23dB. You will not detect: * GA/CA Scout with one cmp damp (20dB) * AM/MN Scout with two cmp damps (18dB) * AM/MN Scout one cmp damp + adv cloak (22dB)
Well... Im never said this was my 1.10 fit..
Right now i run cal scout... LOL.
Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
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Protected Void
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
329
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Protected Void wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:How to Fix:
+% Scan Precision +% to Biotic Module Efficacy As soon as that change is made I would delete all my Amarr scout fits. Prior to falloff, I ran AM Scout roughly 25% of my time in pubs and 50-75% of my time in PC. I now run it 0% of the time, and I'm not alone in this. The suit's usage rates have plummeted with good reason; its former strength and role have been greatly devalued. If the precision bonus were changed to a biotics bonus, I guarantee you'd see a spike in AM Scout use, both in pubs and PC. Further, if Rattati followed through with the Myo jump changes, biotic AM builds would become incredibly fun to run. That may be so, but it would still ruin my playstyle. I want good enough precision to spot most scouts, the ability to dampen well and good speed. To my knowledge, no other suits can do that well enough. I don't think it makes sense to completely refocus a suit just because it got somewhat broken by the first iteration of scan falloff. Better to adjust the scan range and keep the suit within its intended niche. I already specced out of the cal scout once, due to the loss of precision bonus. It would really suck to have a bait and switch pulled on me yet again. We were more-or-less told that "360 degree wallhack scans" have to go. I'd be thrilled to see Rattati make an exception for the AM Scout. He has good reason to, as its sole strength (counter-infiltration) was crippled by Falloff. Not to say we shouldn't ask, but I don't see that happening. Alternatively, tuning Falloff by extending inner ring range (or reversing the Range Extender nerf) could create new balance problems. Firstly, we'd see the role we're trying to fix (AM Scout Recon) immediately replaced by the Logi (equal scan strength in practice, better scan range, greater build flexibility, far greater squad utility). Secondly, we'd see improved performance by already dominant Heavy+Logi blobs. Lastly, we'd introduce unreasonable risk level to backstab play. I don't see an easy fix here, Void. If we've ruled that "360 degree wallhack scans" have to go, then they should stay gone. In which case, the AM Scout should get a new role to fill and a perk overhaul to fit it.
Well, in that case, I'd like to know exactly what "360 degree wallhack scans have to go" means. Does it mean...
- That the recent range nerf/falloff implementation removed them? Ie. that it's okay to have good precision as long as you don't have too long a scan range? Or...
- That no one should be allowed to have a good enough precision to see most other players on their passive scans, regardless of range?
If option 1 is true, and passive scans are fine as is - according to Rattati - then I'm completely fine with the current status quo. I wouldn't mind more range, but I really don't feel all that encumbered by the current scan range. I constantly visually scan my surroundings and listen for sounds of nearby enemies anyway, so scanning further out isn't all that important. My current 18 dB precision allows me to spot poorly dampened shotgunners and nova knifers as they pass into my middle scan circle, and most other suits out to 30 meters.
That's fine, as long as I'm suitably dampened myself. The multitude of hours I've spent honing my skills and playstyle has made me a quite decent player, but surely I'm not so insanely kick-ass that I'm the only player that can do well with the Amarr scout in its current incarnation.
If option 2 is true...well that just doesn't make any sense, unless another overhaul of everyone's scan stats is incoming. The caldari scout can be fit to scan at 17.9 precision out to 33.75 meters, while ducking all but one of the proto active scanners without fitting even one dampener. Fit one dampener and a kincat, and it's at a profile of 20.08 and sprints faster than most of my amarr scout fits. Also, the logis are able to scan at pretty low precision, too, if fit right.
When it comes to tuning scan range, why does it have to be done by tuning scan ring boundaries or range extenders? Aren't both working with percentages of the suit's base scan range? If so, why not give the amarr scout a couple of extra meters of base scan range, leaving others as is?
So, assuming option 1 is true: I don't see any point in removing the Amarr scout scan precision bonus. If it does, as you suggest, get changed to a biotics module bonus, then those better be damned good bonuses to make up for it (or be in addition to the current scan bonus). It already has stamina up the wazoo, so there's no point in fitting cardiac regs. Bonuses to kincats would be potentially game breaking, since hit detection etc. seems to struggle enough with the speeds we run at now. The only other biotics related bonuses I can think of that won't require a lot of coding are:
- A bonus to blue bottles/melee modules (can't remember their name) as they are now. This better be a considerable bonus, since otherwise the low melee damage on a scout suit isn't really worth spending a slot boosting ATM.
- A bonus to stamina expenditure when jumping. This would be cool for traveling fast through cities and other places with low hurdles, but would almost certainly be widely abused by excessive bunny hopping around other suits to avoid getting hit.
- If blue bottles are given a jump height effect in addition to increased damage, a bonus to these would be cool. However, it would have to be a hefty bonus, since I can already make most jumps I need to make at medium heights, and the next useful height to be able to reach is straight to the roof of low buildings.
- A bonus to ladder climb speed. Useful, but again needs to be quite noticeable to be worthy of one of the two precious high slots on the amarr scout.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1441
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
:: shortcut ::
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2547567#post2547567
^ Prototype usage trends. GA, CA, and MN Scouts present as fairly balanced against one another. The AM Scout appears to be trending downward. Should its usage continue to slump, something will have to change. Time will tell.
A base scan range buff to the AM Scout would absolutely help; +5m to match current Logi seems reasonable. We should ask, but we should also have a backup plan in case we're shot down.
As for swapping precision for a biotics bonus, I'm thinking +5% to +7% efficacy per level; max sprint speed would be just under 12 m/s. PC usage would increase as the AM Scout would replace the GA Scout as the PC Uplink runner. Pub usage would increase as the Myo-jump changes (fingers crossed) would make for especially fun gameplay. |
axis alpha
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
454
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Posted - 2015.01.02 23:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'd rather scan, be smart and flank then go head to head with an assault or a heavy.
I cut you up so bad.... You gonna wish I no cut you up so bad.
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Zindorak
Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance
1479
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Posted - 2015.01.02 23:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
My buddy has like 800 or something Armor on his Amarr Scout
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1160
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Posted - 2015.01.02 23:19:00 -
[28] - Quote
also compared to other scout bonus the Amarr gives a pretty low boost to its stamina amount/recharge. even at proto skills i can still oout run it by simply slapping on an enhanced cardiac.
the bonus needs upping to 10% or even 20% to stamina amount and regen per level. that'd bump it to the equivalent of a complex cardiac, just as the other scouts bonus adds the equivalent of a proto ewar
Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
proud C-II bpo owner
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
6721
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Posted - 2015.01.02 23:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Amarr is now, the most UP scout there is..tahts the problem.
With precision range nerfed, there really isnt a way to Effectively passive scan with scouts. Logis have more range so they are better fitted for this. Or the CAldari scout with its massive range bonus.
Minscout: Still fits its role perfectly. Speed+Knives+Hacks Cal scout: The Best scout IMO at the moment. Range bonus works pretty well and Dampening is Scout must have. Gal scout: 10% Precision bonus is cra* , but dampening and 4 low slots help a lot. Amarr scout: What good is 25% precision with 30mts range? You are SLow, Look like some kind of uber cool but stiff beetle and dont even have a dampening bonus like the gal to at least fulfill ONE role...It. Has a Stamina Bonus, but unless you are planning on winning Marathons this scout is crud now.
Using him as an assault is Turd stupid since i can use my AK.0 Assault, and STILL run over 800 EHP with 2 cx damps. Im sacrificing a little speed and some stamina in exchange for a bonus to SCR RIFLES and a lot more EHP and DAmps.
Ehem...bye
Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4942
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Posted - 2015.01.02 23:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:My buddy has like 800 or something Armor on his Amarr Scout Your buddy needs to be flayed then.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Protected Void
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
330
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Posted - 2015.01.03 12:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote::: shortcut :: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2547567#post2547567^ Prototype usage trends. GA, CA, and MN Scouts present as fairly balanced against one another. The AM Scout is less healthy and appears to be trending downward. Should its usage continue to slump, something will have to change. Time will tell. A base scan range buff to the AM Scout would absolutely help; +5m to match current Logi seems reasonable. We should ask, but we should also have a backup plan in the likely event that we're shot down. As for swapping precision for a biotics bonus, I'm thinking +5% to +7% efficacy per level; max sprint speed would be just under 12 m/s. PC usage would increase as the AM Scout would replace the GA Scout as the PC Uplink runner. Pub usage would increase as the myo-jump changes (fingers crossed) would make for especially fun gameplay.
5 meters seems like a reasonable request.
I've seen those statistics you linked to, and they're a decent indication of popularity, of course. But that's what they are; an indication, not an absolute blueprint. I buy about one proto suit for every two hundred advanced suit, so most of my actual amarr scout usage isn't included in them. I wouldn't be surprised if there are other players with similar numbers. I'd like to see overall stats for suits of all levels.
Also, I think it's not necessarily realistic to see the same usage numbers for a precision based suit as for other suits. The kneejerk reaction for the average player seems to be to stack HP, and - in my opinion - that's pointless on an amarr scout. |
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