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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7651
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Posted - 2015.01.02 08:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ydubbs81 wrote:I think this mechanic allows for so much abuse. Amarr heavies with 1200hp+ with resistance to weapons coupled with (sometimes) 2 logis repping them at once. Someone, somewhere has to believe that there is something wrong with this, no? This game is supposed to be based on skill, right?
At first, it seemed ok but players started abusing it and something just didn't feel right about that mechanic. Especially when there is nothing like that for shield infantry (esp. heavies)
I'm thinking that the rep tool should be at 100% efficiency when the person is not taking any damage. And then perhaps 50% efficiency when the person is taking damage (for the people who want to continue to abuse this) Given that even 2 fully maxed Logistics suits repping a Sentinel at the same time can't out-rep the DPS of a single Assault Rifle, the only thing they're giving that Sentinel is more time to defend himself, and only by a few seconds. There is NO way in hell you can stack enough reps on one person to let them resist even a single rifle without being a complete waste as far as the team is concerned. The fact that armor tanking allows for team-coordination based tactics and shield tanking currently does not does not mean we need to start looking for ways to nerf teamwork.
Not that I'm buying into Ydubbs81's perpetual feeling of armor being OP (when it isn't) but you also have to take into account how many rounds the AR has in the mag, it's reload time, etc. The 'resistances' argument was flawed considering that the Amarr Sentinel only has resistances toward Projectile and Rail weaponry, so it's an edge case against only a handful of weapons that I'll likely plot out later.
In the case of the AR, however...
It's actually impossible to kill an Amarr Sentinel in those conditions, even with an AR. Not because of the DPS, the DPS actually outclasses the repair rate, but the reason why it's a viable option is because the AR doesn't have an infinite magazine and in the 2.55s it takes you reload the thing, the Amarr Sentinel would be back at full armor. Even with it's shields at 0, you still wouldn't have enough rounds in the magazine to kill it.
Going to do the Assault Combat Rifle next, see if there's a different result.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7651
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Posted - 2015.01.02 08:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ydubbs81 wrote:I think this mechanic allows for so much abuse. Amarr heavies with 1200hp+ with resistance to weapons coupled with (sometimes) 2 logis repping them at once. Someone, somewhere has to believe that there is something wrong with this, no? This game is supposed to be based on skill, right?
At first, it seemed ok but players started abusing it and something just didn't feel right about that mechanic. Especially when there is nothing like that for shield infantry (esp. heavies)
I'm thinking that the rep tool should be at 100% efficiency when the person is not taking any damage. And then perhaps 50% efficiency when the person is taking damage (for the people who want to continue to abuse this) Given that even 2 fully maxed Logistics suits repping a Sentinel at the same time can't out-rep the DPS of a single Assault Rifle, the only thing they're giving that Sentinel is more time to defend himself, and only by a few seconds. There is NO way in hell you can stack enough reps on one person to let them resist even a single rifle without being a complete waste as far as the team is concerned. The fact that armor tanking allows for team-coordination based tactics and shield tanking currently does not does not mean we need to start looking for ways to nerf teamwork. Not that I'm buying into Ydubbs81's perpetual feeling of armor being OP (when it isn't) but you also have to take into account how many rounds the AR has in the mag, it's reload time, etc. The 'resistances' argument was flawed considering that the Amarr Sentinel only has resistances toward Projectile and Rail weaponry, so it's an edge case against only a handful of weapons that I'll likely plot out later. In the case of the AR, however... It's actually impossible to kill an Amarr Sentinel in those conditions, even with an AR. Not because of the DPS, the DPS actually outclasses the repair rate, but the reason why it's a viable option is because the AR doesn't have an infinite magazine and in the 2.55s it takes you reload the thing, the Amarr Sentinel would be back at full armor. Even with it's shields at 0, you still wouldn't have enough rounds in the magazine to kill it. Going to do the Assault Combat Rifle next, see if there's a different result. It's a fair point. However... I don't really see the issue with one (1) assault with a rifle being unable to beat a group of 2-4 people working together... which is the scenario here. How do the numbers look with, say, 2 proto ARs unloading into that Amarr heavy with 1 proto reptool on him? Or even more sensibly, 2 ARs first taking down 1 logi and then focus firing on the now (basically) repless sentinel? Maybe the scenario is now more acceptable for the assaults?
Right. Which is the logical thing to do. I'm not going to fire at the Sentinel who is going to take forever to kill, I'm going to kill the Logi's. I was just providing backing to what Ydubbs81's argument is here in the context provided, whether or not someone is stupid enough to try and go toe-to-toe with an unkillable Sentinel is their prerogative.
Now, as promised, I re-did the numbers for the ACR and it is certifiably impossible to out-DPS that kind of repair. Not that you should ever try to begin with but for the sake of argument, the math backs up Ydubbs81 in this case.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7660
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Posted - 2015.01.03 22:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:If you have a problem with 'heavy and logi' combo then take out the logi thus the heavy does not get repped Because it is that easy  While you are attempting to take out his logi, the sentinel will blap you into a greasy stain on the concrete. Lord help you if it's one of those dual sentinel, double rep tool logi combinations. Then you are extra ******. Your only hope is flinging an RE on them and praying it takes out one of them. Have you even played this game recently? As someone who plays Assault ak.0 with a Viziam Scrambler (Occasionally DArth's), and 3 Complex Damage Mods, all I need is a single charged headshot to blap most Logistics fits unless the guy went full-out brick, in which case I just land a second one right after the first. If you don't have that, try cooking a Flux nade at the group, and then going for the Logis with a Combat Rifle. Rail Rifle users can attempt to find a ranged position with which to engage the Logis. In the case of the Assault Rifle, many people will claim they can't do anything, but Cat Merc and Arkena Wyrnspire came up with a dual Kinetic Catalyzer fit for the Gallente Assault suit that's been allowing them to choose engagements rather effectively. I would recommend that anyone with skill into Assault Rifles combine them with Kinetic Catalyzers and use them to jump on those pesky Logi, shred them, and then run away. In all of these situations you should NOT be running straight at the Sentinel while trying to kill his support. Most of the time those people will be in a squad together. If you're solo and trying to take on a group of players communicating with each other from the front, you're almost never going to win. Use the available terrain and cover to your advantage, break contact, and try to flank around. If that doesn't work, try and shadow the Sentinel until he engages another guy on your team, and then hit the Logi. It'll take the Sentinel a second or so to break off and switch targets, and in that time you can waste his support and leave him vulnerable.
The dual kin-cats thing is cool and all but it really does pain me to see that one of the only viable fits for a Gallente Assault is to basically turn it into a hamfisted Minmatar Assault knock-off. I just gave up running Gallente Assault all together, nothing it can do that the Min Assault can't do better.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
|
Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7667
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Posted - 2015.01.03 23:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:If you have a problem with 'heavy and logi' combo then take out the logi thus the heavy does not get repped Because it is that easy While you are attempting to take out his logi, the sentinel will blap you into a greasy stain on the concrete. Lord help you if it's one of those dual sentinel, double rep tool logi combinations. Then you are extra ******. Your only hope is flinging an RE on them and praying it takes out one of them. Have you even played this game recently? As someone who plays Assault ak.0 with a Viziam Scrambler (Occasionally DArth's), and 3 Complex Damage Mods, all I need is a single charged headshot to blap most Logistics fits unless the guy went full-out brick, in which case I just land a second one right after the first. If you don't have that, try cooking a Flux nade at the group, and then going for the Logis with a Combat Rifle. Rail Rifle users can attempt to find a ranged position with which to engage the Logis. In the case of the Assault Rifle, many people will claim they can't do anything, but Cat Merc and Arkena Wyrnspire came up with a dual Kinetic Catalyzer fit for the Gallente Assault suit that's been allowing them to choose engagements rather effectively. I would recommend that anyone with skill into Assault Rifles combine them with Kinetic Catalyzers and use them to jump on those pesky Logi, shred them, and then run away. In all of these situations you should NOT be running straight at the Sentinel while trying to kill his support. Most of the time those people will be in a squad together. If you're solo and trying to take on a group of players communicating with each other from the front, you're almost never going to win. Use the available terrain and cover to your advantage, break contact, and try to flank around. If that doesn't work, try and shadow the Sentinel until he engages another guy on your team, and then hit the Logi. It'll take the Sentinel a second or so to break off and switch targets, and in that time you can waste his support and leave him vulnerable. The dual kin-cats thing is cool and all but it really does pain me to see that one of the only viable fits for a Gallente Assault is to basically turn it into a hamfisted Minmatar Assault knock-off. I just gave up running Gallente Assault all together, nothing it can do that the Min Assault can't do better. That is their version of running the Gal assault......Mine doesn't even resemble the minmatar and it's beastly. Put it like this....when I want to have fun or if I feel like I'll be covering a lot of ground, I use the minmatar or cal. But when it's time to put people down, the gal comes out. You shouldn't have specced out of it, tbh. I remember Excstacy Cravings say that he feels the gal assault is the best assault. And that's before I specced into it and thought that the min assault was king ding-a-ling. Now, I understand where he's coming from.
Didn't spec out of it, just don't use it anymore. It's about useless with my playstyle. Too bulky, too slow, repair rate is far too low, bonuses are underwhelming, etc.
Aeon's Links
In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
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