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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2785
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Posted - 2014.12.28 01:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
When thinking of revamping shield and armor parity in DUST as you move forward with balancing efforts ...if we could think of an infantry shield repair or support tool to further balance the need for shield suits in squad play.
But what could work as a general concept for a shield remote shield repair module or support module that would be balanced? as shields offer some distinct advantages that armor can't when repaired actively.
What most people seem to hint at is a Shield tool that Resets or completes the Delayed recharge rate for shields.
Basically a tool that you can take out and activate on a Mercenary with low shield or no shield.. and reset their depleted counter.. allowing their suit to naturally start regenerating shield at the suits rate.
So a Mercenary taking cover after a fire fight would need The shield tool first then pull out an armor rep to continue. Or a well coordinated Logi team of Armor repair and shield repairers working together.
COuld make for some amazing gameplay.
Vehicle Remote Repairers
Vehicles.... It would be awesome if shield and armor remote repair was Done on LAV's..... To have Logi LAV's back... But the Remote shield or armor repair is in the form of a Small turret mounted in the back and requires a "Gunner" to operate. Possibly with a similar locking mechanic that is used with infantry repair tools.
Would create some very neat medic teams where both can share warpoint bonuses from the vehicle and offer on the fly medical assitance to mercenaries pushing or defending objectives...
Along with being able to be a fast mobile support unit for team vehicle repairs and support. |
Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
14707
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Posted - 2014.12.28 03:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think the Shield Transporter (if we're to remain consistent) should work like Shield Boosters. Basically, it would offer a fixed amount of HP in single bursts over a fixed period of time depending on the variant.
I'll post some stats later I suppose.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Apocalyptic Destroyer
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
231
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Posted - 2014.12.28 03:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lmao at all this. I've already made a thread of this and had no support.
Amarrian In Disguise..
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Proto : ADS Pilot, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Assault
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Apocalyptic Destroyer
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
231
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Posted - 2014.12.28 03:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
The shields don't need a repair tool. That would make them tremendously over powered. Due to the shields being repaired at a constant rate. What the shields need are tools that boosts the shields.
Example: It would work exactly like the shield boosters do on vehicles. The tool would administer a boost to the shield but would overheat. The tiers for the overheat were if I remember, 20 sec basic , 15 sec adv , and 10 sec for proto. I did however forget the numbers I had for the initial boost it would give the shields.
Amarrian In Disguise..
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Proto : ADS Pilot, Tanker, Heavy, Scout, Assault
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Fleen Costell'o
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
487
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Posted - 2014.12.28 03:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
sheld rep. + armor rep. = OP
BUGS514 Find all.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2788
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Posted - 2014.12.28 03:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apocalyptic Destroyer wrote:The shields don't need a repair tool. That would make them tremendously over powered. Due to the shields being repaired at a constant rate. What the shields need are tools that boosts the shields.
Example: It would work exactly like the shield boosters do on vehicles. The tool would administer a boost to the shield but would overheat. The tiers for the overheat were if I remember, 20 sec basic , 15 sec adv , and 10 sec for proto. I did however forget the numbers I had for the initial boost it would give the shields.
Doesn't make any sense for a Logi to run any of this tactically...
It does if you just put yourself in the mind of someone being supported.
Shield tools should never act like an Armor repair does... Giving consistent streams of health.. Unless provided directly from a vehicle.. Which offers a completely different tactical scenario.
It should either trigger the Recharge delay and set it at 0... Hold your button... Bam, module activates... Triggers the Mercenaries shields and they start regenerating at the suits natural rate. They get shot again? it stops, as it is just the suit it's self recharging.
Shield suits naturally have high shield recharge.. and are fitted slightly around Shield with module. Just triggering it's natural shield regeneration with a module is enough.
- Or Atim's suggestion, Where Shield repair only is offered in Burst health values... Say 100-200 shield.. Hold your button down.. it charges like a Forge gun.. Then energizes yoru shields with 100-200 more shield... Instead of a consistent stream. |
Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
479
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Posted - 2014.12.28 04:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
A shield repair makes no sense. Since a repair tool REPAIRS which means something is broken.
Shields don't break. They deplet for over usgae and go off when they abosrb too much damage.
Now, a module or some equipment that would help boost the recharge rate of depelted shields instantly makes more since. But only once per use and then the module/equipment goes into overheat.
Kinda like the shield boosters for vehicles.
If added that plus a damage percentage in order to break the shield's recharge cycle, shield vs armor would get pretty balanced.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2790
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Posted - 2014.12.28 04:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:A shield repair makes no sense. Since a repair tool REPAIRS which means something is broken.
Shields don't break. They deplet for over usgae and go off when they abosrb too much damage.
Now, a module or some equipment that would help boost the recharge rate of depelted shields instantly makes more since. But only once per use and then the module/equipment goes into overheat.
Kinda like the shield boosters for vehicles.
If added that plus a damage percentage in order to break the shield's recharge cycle, shield vs armor would get pretty balanced.
It's a Valid Point.
I think there should be a cooldown per mercenary... But I think it should be able to be used on multiple Mercenaries while having it out.. With a 5-10 second cooldown set on the mercenary you just boosted the recharge on...or something.
In Eve it's Shield Transporters. Would be kinda neat if a Logi could transport their Shield percentage value to another Mercenary..
Then run Heavy Shield Rechargers/Energizers and Regulators to facilitate the Logi suit to always have shield to transport to another Mercenary.
Then do it like EVE... Where Shield Transporters will also Create 5-10% more shield in the process so SHield Logi's could chain up. and keep their shield running.
There could be such more interesting play if we had suits dedicated to running shield and suits dedicated to running armor..
Every suit brick tanking is strangling such an amazing concept for a dynamic battlefield. |
Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
480
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Posted - 2014.12.28 04:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:A shield repair makes no sense. Since a repair tool REPAIRS which means something is broken.
Shields don't break. They deplet for over usgae and go off when they abosrb too much damage.
Now, a module or some equipment that would help boost the recharge rate of depelted shields instantly makes more since. But only once per use and then the module/equipment goes into overheat.
Kinda like the shield boosters for vehicles.
If added that plus a damage percentage in order to break the shield's recharge cycle, shield vs armor would get pretty balanced. It's a Valid Point. I think there should be a cooldown per mercenary... But I think it should be able to be used on multiple Mercenaries while having it out.. With a 5-10 second cooldown set on the mercenary you just boosted the recharge on...or something. In Eve it's Shield Transporters. Would be kinda neat if a Logi could transport their Shield percentage value to another Mercenary.. Then run Heavy Shield Rechargers/Energizers and Regulators to facilitate the Logi suit to always have shield to transport to another Mercenary. Then do it like EVE... Where Shield Transporters will also Create 5-10% more shield in the process so SHield Logi's could chain up. and keep their shield running. There could be such more interesting play if we had suits dedicated to running shield and suits dedicated to running armor.. Every suit brick tanking is strangling such an amazing concept for a dynamic battlefield. The thought of seeing CalLogi's in a single file boosying each other's shield up id both funny but awesome. I WANT!
Changes to Damage mods!
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Jacques Cayton II
Kaalmayoti Warzone Control
1303
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Posted - 2014.12.28 04:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I think the Shield Transporter (if we're to remain consistent) should work like Shield Boosters. Basically, it would offer a fixed amount of HP in single bursts over a fixed period of time depending on the variant.
I'll post some stats later I suppose. I think they should act like a super regulator.
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Jacques Cayton II
Kaalmayoti Warzone Control
1303
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Posted - 2014.12.28 05:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fleen Costell'o wrote:sheld rep. + armor rep. = OP Also 3 players moving slowly susceptible to explosives and other things. Also that would be teamwork. Why my idea works best armor suits wont benefit due to their already terrible shield delays
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3619
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Posted - 2014.12.28 05:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fleen Costell'o wrote:sheld rep. + armor rep. = OP
like armor rep + rep tools and triage nanohives aren't??
Shield tanking is hard mode /period.
> Check RND out here
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
1320
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Posted - 2014.12.28 07:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
so your saying it reduce any suits regen delay to 0 as a buff that ends when it loses lock on the suit?
that seems underpowered considering youd have to use slots for rechargers or energizers just to match a cheap armor repair tool.
i dont see anything wrong with a shield repair tool just acting as a normal armor repair tool. if theyre the same theyre balanced. shields in eve rep passively and its still not overpowered there.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
575
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Posted - 2014.12.28 13:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Overcharging/Hardening a shield actually sounds like fun. It would add an additional mode to shields, similar to how armor already has. For armor, you have brick tanking, which requires team support to heal you up. Or you have regeneration tanking, which allows you to be self-sufficient. Meanwhile, shields are currently geared for either cover-based gameplay (Low delay, low regen speed) or hit and run tactics (Higher delay, but very quick regeneration to full). A shield boost would essentially be the shielded version of brick tanking, with the associated need for team support. However, it would need to **** with the shield regeneration in some way, (e.g. by halting recharge delay until the boost ends and then taking more time than usual for the delay to end) which in turn could cause griefing in pubs. You've already seen the whining for injectors. Imagine what a boosted shield would cause if it had drawbacks. And imagine what it would cause if it DIDN'T have drawbacks.
Also, the question is if an overcharge should be dependant on the shielding value of the target or if it should be a fixed value based on the shield tool.
But shield boosting sounds equally good. It would allow a squad to pump up the recharge delay in order to increase shield values and regeneration speed. However, that might require some re-slotting of the associated modules or even adding new modules for this style of tanking. |
Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1423
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Posted - 2014.12.28 18:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:When thinking of revamping shield and armor parity in DUST as you move forward with balancing efforts ...if we could think of an infantry shield repair or support tool to further balance the need for shield suits in squad play.
But what could work as a general concept for a remote shield repair module or support module that would be balanced? as shields offer some distinct advantages that armor can't when repaired actively.
What most people seem to hint at is a Shield tool that Resets or completes the Delayed recharge rate for shields.
Basically a tool that you can take out and activate on a Mercenary with low shield or no shield.. and reset their depleted counter.. allowing their suit to naturally start regenerating shield at the suits rate.
So a Mercenary taking cover after a fire fight would need The shield tool first then pull out an armor rep to continue. Or a well coordinated Logi team of Armor repair and shield repairers working together.
COuld make for some amazing gameplay.
Vehicle Remote Repairers
Vehicles.... It would be awesome if shield and armor remote repair was Done on LAV's..... To have Logi LAV's back... But the Remote shield or armor repair is in the form of a Small turret mounted in the back and requires a "Gunner" to operate. Possibly with a similar locking mechanic that is used with infantry repair tools.
Would create some very neat medic teams where both can share warpoint bonuses from the vehicle and offer on the fly medical assitance to mercenaries pushing or defending objectives...
Along with being able to be a fast mobile support unit for team vehicle repairs and support. Well lawdy,it seems as if no one ever reads this thread.
Or they secretly know it's being ignored.
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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Vesta Opalus
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
281
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Posted - 2014.12.28 20:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bethhy wrote: Shield suits naturally have high shield recharge.. and are fitted slightly around Shield with modules such as Energizers and Rechargers. Just triggering it's natural shield regeneration with a module is enough.
This isnt really true, the best shield recharge is the Cal Scout at 50 I think, most of the other ones hover around 20-30, which is very slow compared to repair tool repair rate, much less repair tool + rep modules repair rate. |
jace silencerww
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
116
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Posted - 2014.12.28 23:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
hmm a shield rep tool is possible but at a really low rate. like 10 basic 15 adv & 20 proto. this would help shield tanks that DO NOT duel tank. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2801
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Posted - 2014.12.29 01:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Bethhy wrote: Shield suits naturally have high shield recharge.. and are fitted slightly around Shield with modules such as Energizers and Rechargers. Just triggering it's natural shield regeneration with a module is enough.
This isnt really true, the best shield recharge is the Cal Scout at 50 I think, most of the other ones hover around 20-30, which is very slow compared to repair tool repair rate, much less repair tool + rep modules repair rate.
Yes stock shield values of say the most "Tanky" Shield suit for example The Caldari Sentinel Proto.. Is 550 Shield and 30 repair rate. With energizers and skills your only sitting around 50-60.
But then again what people forget is that there are inherent negatives and positives to shields and armor.
Yes shields have less health pool and even now they have no logistic backup... But shield suits move at a fast rate which is pretty huge in a FPS....
Versus an Armor suit which is moving very slowly and generally easier to aim at and hit.
Kinda why i think the module should have no cooldown.
If Rattati and CCP Shanghai do feel there is a logistical hole for Shield suits in squad play and team play in DUST... And they do wish to add a module that does support shield.. It would probably be with a balance around shield suits and modules as a whole.
If Shield suits had a naturally high Regeneration rate... But a limited armor health pool... Then there would be more dedicated shield suit fits...
Much like if Armor suits had significantly lower Shield health pools... Then they would use Highslots more for damage mods and Scan modules. Where as shield suits would use more damps and Green and red bottles |
Sicerly Yaw
Quantum times
4
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Posted - 2014.12.29 08:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
shield repair tools should work exactly as armor repair ones do. they should not make shields start to rep themselves at their fixed or altered rate but instead just simply give a certain amount of shield per rep. since armor reps work along with the suits already repping armor I'd suggest going off of eve and how the armor and shield repair drones work. I don't see why this isn't a thing already and its probably because of the amount of people complaining about shield tankers in previous updates but I would like to see this implemented seeing as to how shield repair is a thing in eve online. Also I would like to add the idea of shield transfer and maybe even armor transfer giving logistics and even more vital role they could give up their own shield/armor to give to an ally in need putting them in danger but giving their team an advantage I don't know how exactly this would work in dust but again we could use the existing model in eve to make something similar out of it. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2801
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Posted - 2014.12.29 12:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sicerly Yaw wrote:shield repair tools should work exactly as armor repair ones do. they should not make shields start to rep themselves at their fixed or altered rate but instead just simply give a certain amount of shield per rep. since armor reps work along with the suits already repping armor I'd suggest going off of eve and how the armor and shield repair drones work. I don't see why this isn't a thing already and its probably because of the amount of people complaining about shield tankers in previous updates but I would like to see this implemented seeing as to how shield repair is a thing in eve online. Also I would like to add the idea of shield transfer and maybe even armor transfer giving logistics and even more vital role they could give up their own shield/armor to give to an ally in need putting them in danger but giving their team an advantage I don't know how exactly this would work in dust but again we could use the existing model in eve to make something similar out of it.
Shield repair is a thing in EVE, but armor and shield have distinct differences in EVE even with remote repairs and transporters themselves.
Armor repairs in EVE have always offered significantly more health repaired in an activation cycle... but at a longer cycle rate.
Where shield transporters offer significantly less shield per repair.. But with a much quicker cycle time.
The main difference in DUST is speed. Shield suits are gonna be moving significantly faster... are gonna be much harder to hit and still have all that armor as a buffer to actually surviving if their shield fails...
Yes armor repairs more... But armored targets also receive ALOT more damage because of their inherent disadvantages. |
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Ekrano Fergus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
70
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Posted - 2014.12.29 14:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:
Shield repair is a thing in EVE, but armor and shield have distinct differences in EVE even with remote repairs and transporters themselves.
Armor repairs in EVE have always offered significantly more health repaired in an activation cycle... but at a longer cycle rate.
Where shield transporters offer significantly less shield per repair.. But with a much quicker cycle time.
In Eve remote armor repairers and remote shield boosters give the same amount of hp and have the same cycle time. The only major difference is shields give health at the beginning of the cycle and armor gives it at the end.
/)_/)
( . .)
C(") (")
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3393
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Posted - 2014.12.29 17:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:When thinking of revamping shield and armor parity in DUST as you move forward with balancing efforts ...if we could think of an infantry shield repair or support tool to further balance the need for shield suits in squad play.
But what could work as a general concept for a remote shield repair module or support module that would be balanced? as shields offer some distinct advantages that armor can't when repaired actively.
What most people seem to hint at is a Shield tool that Resets or completes the Delayed recharge rate for shields.
Basically a tool that you can take out and activate on a Mercenary with low shield or no shield.. and reset their depleted counter.. allowing their suit to naturally start regenerating shield at the suits rate.
So a Mercenary taking cover after a fire fight would need The shield tool first then pull out an armor rep to continue. Or a well coordinated Logi team of Armor repair and shield repairers working together.
COuld make for some amazing gameplay.
I can't help but feel like the tool you described would be underpowered. If all it did was reset the delay, then armor tankers get little use out of the tool since they have such low regen rates, and shield tankers won't really care since they would have started regening in one more second anyways. If it was like a temporary boost to all stats, like the user charges it, fires at a team-mate, and for the next ~10 seconds the team-mate has +50% to all shield stats(-50% to delays), then it might work pretty well, like a temporary over-shield that also partly does what you described.
A little while ago I made a thread suggesting a tool that takes the shields and shield regen away from the user of the tool and adds them to the target, but apparently it was too radical an idea because too many people considered the risk too large for the reward.
In fact, just about every suggestion ever made for a shield equivalent of a rep tool is largely disregarded. It seems like most people just don't care for the idea of shield triage.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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