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The-Errorist
937
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Posted - 2014.12.26 05:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Trello card
[Issues]
One big problem with Caldari vehicles is that they have a huge chunk of their HP as armor when their main focus are shields. For example, a Gunnlogi has 2650 shield HP and 1500 armor HP; 63.9% of it's total HP are shields and the remaining HP 36.1% are armor, which is weird for a shield only focused race.
For Madrugars, they have 23.1% shields and 76.9% armor which isn't that bad in comparison.
[Solutions]
Vehicles should have standardized shield/armor HP ratios based on race.
Shield to armor ratio
Amarr: 10% shields and 90% armor
Gallente: 25% shields and 75% armor
Minmatar: 55% shields and 45% armor
Caldari: 90% shields and 10% armor
Related thread:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=185822
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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The-Errorist
937
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Posted - 2014.12.26 05:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4162
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Posted - 2014.12.26 07:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1377
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Posted - 2014.12.26 07:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern?
It happens quite a lot
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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The-Errorist
937
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Posted - 2014.12.26 07:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern?
Yeah, I see your concern. How much shield damage do flux strikes deal anyway?
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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Sir Dukey
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1377
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Posted - 2014.12.26 07:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern? Yeah, I see your concern. How much shield damage do flux strikes deal anyway?
They drop my 3900 shields instantly.
Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4163
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Posted - 2014.12.26 07:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
I kinda see it as the same logic that they used with the Caldari Sentinel having a sizable amount of armor, because if a Flux Grenade hits them, you don't want them left with like 50 armor and no shields instantly. So I totally get what you're saying, and perhaps it may be beneficial to push some of the armor HP into the shield HP, but I also think that a 90/10 spread may be going too far.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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The-Errorist
937
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Posted - 2014.12.26 07:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I kinda see it as the same logic that they used with the Caldari Sentinel having a sizable amount of armor, because if a Flux Grenade hits them, you don't want them left with like 50 armor and no shields instantly. So I totally get what you're saying, and perhaps it may be beneficial to push some of the armor HP into the shield HP, but I also think that a 90/10 spread may be going too far.
What if I changed the it to to 85/15 and if major flux strikes dealt equal to damage compared to regular strikes? That way it won't be that devastating compared to a normal strike against an armor vehicle.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
6000
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Posted - 2014.12.26 08:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I kinda see it as the same logic that they used with the Caldari Sentinel having a sizable amount of armor, because if a Flux Grenade hits them, you don't want them left with like 50 armor and no shields instantly. So I totally get what you're saying, and perhaps it may be beneficial to push some of the armor HP into the shield HP, but I also think that a 90/10 spread may be going too far. What if I changed the it to to 85/15 and if major flux strikes dealt equal damage compared to regular strikes? That way it won't be that devastating compared to a normal strike against an armor vehicle.
80/20 would be bare minimum. You're already looking at a oneshot with FG once it is in armor. But we don't want the armor dropping sufficiently that an EMP strike + mass driver makes gunnlogis easy meat.
Stacking too much HP on one tank type can be bad for front loaded shield HAVs because while it is too easy to supertank them an instagib isn't a good thing.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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The-Errorist
937
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Posted - 2014.12.26 09:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
OP has been updated with another issue
Breakin Stuff wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I kinda see it as the same logic that they used with the Caldari Sentinel having a sizable amount of armor, because if a Flux Grenade hits them, you don't want them left with like 50 armor and no shields instantly. So I totally get what you're saying, and perhaps it may be beneficial to push some of the armor HP into the shield HP, but I also think that a 90/10 spread may be going too far. What if I changed the it to to 85/15 and if major flux strikes dealt equal damage compared to regular strikes? That way it won't be that devastating compared to a normal strike against an armor vehicle. 80/20 would be bare minimum. You're already looking at a oneshot with FG once it is in armor. But we don't want the armor dropping sufficiently that an EMP strike + mass driver makes gunnlogis easy meat. Stacking too much HP on one tank type can be bad for front loaded shield HAVs because while it is too easy to supertank them an instagib isn't a good thing.
I don't think you understand or read the part where I said "and if major flux strikes dealt equal damage compared to regular strikes? That way it won't be that devastating compared to a normal strike against an armor vehicle.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
16274
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Posted - 2014.12.26 11:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern? Yeah, I see your concern. How much shield damage do flux strikes deal anyway? They drop my 3900 shields instantly.
Nabbed my hardened 5300 in a single pass.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
1809
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Posted - 2014.12.26 12:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern? Yeah, I see your concern. How much shield damage do flux strikes deal anyway? They drop my 3900 shields instantly. Nabbed my hardened 5300 in a single pass.
I wouldn't be surprised if they just went super overkill with the Flux Bombardment Damage.
Its probably something crazy like 20,000 damage per shot or something.
Makes me wonder though...
If we have the tech to strip the shields of everything, at massively long ranges, why do the Caldari even exist anymore?
I mean, its quite obvious that Warbarges have turrets capable of just annihilating shields at ranges of a few hundred km, into an atmosphere, no less...
Likes for likes also cake.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4170
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Posted - 2014.12.26 17:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern? Yeah, I see your concern. How much shield damage do flux strikes deal anyway? They drop my 3900 shields instantly. Nabbed my hardened 5300 in a single pass. I wouldn't be surprised if they just went super overkill with the Flux Bombardment Damage. Its probably something crazy like 20,000 damage per shot or something. Makes me wonder though... If we have the tech to strip the shields of everything, at massively long ranges, why do the Caldari even exist anymore? I mean, its quite obvious that Warbarges have turrets capable of just annihilating shields at ranges of a few hundred km, into an atmosphere, no less...
And this is why I dislike the all and nothing nature of Flux Grenades/Strikes
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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The-Errorist
982
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Posted - 2015.01.29 21:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Changed the ratio to 20/80 for Cal, 80/20 for Am and updated the stats for HAVs LAVs and DS using those.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
15023
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Posted - 2015.02.08 15:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
And this is why I dislike the all and nothing nature of Flux Grenades/Strikes
When it comes to infantry sized electronics, Core Locus Grenades behave quite tne same way against armor.
It's all pretty much all of the time, and that means death in the case of the Locus Grenade, unlike the flux 
As for vehicles, do you really expect a ship sized cannon to not strip a groundside vehicle of its shields?
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Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!
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Atiim
Titans of Phoenix
15515
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Posted - 2015.02.08 17:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern?
I don't see the merits behind your concern because Flux Warbarge Strikes are laughably easy to dodge provided that you aren't stuck since you get a warning before the strike actually drops.
Though given how the FWB can't even destroy a single piece of equipment properly and FW strikes are Capsuleer-only you won't see them being used outside of PUB matches.
The 1st Matari Commando
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5263
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Posted - 2015.02.08 18:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:While I don't like to consider Flux Warbarge Strikes as a balancing mechanic since they supposed to only exist in Pubs and not FW or PC...I do have some concerns about Flux Strikes hitting a Caldari vehicle and then dropping it instantly into armor which would only be 10% of its total HP. Now of course that can also be a function of how much those flux strikes do to HAVs, but do you see my concern? I don't see the merits behind your concern because Flux Warbarge Strikes are laughably easy to dodge provided that you aren't stuck since you get a warning before the strike actually drops. Though given how the FWB can't even destroy a single piece of equipment properly and FW strikes are Capsuleer-only you won't see them being used outside of PUB matches.
Someone hasn't been in a FW lately XD
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