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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5932
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Posted - 2014.12.23 15:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Increasing dispersion on the HMG makes it easier to hit you consistently.
30m optimal is hilarious.
The other option is to kick the HMG out of CQC.
But queue the "HMG BELONGS IN CQC!" Crowd.
They are about due any second now.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5935
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Posted - 2014.12.23 16:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
second proposal is interesting, I agree with Fox. However, it would probably take as long to code that solution as it would my solution.
Bluntly I wish CCP would at least TEST some of the ideas we have proposed at various points for utility. Jimmying the heat isn't the answer by itself.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5936
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Posted - 2014.12.23 20:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Runaway gun, AKA a "Casper"
As in "A ghost is holding down the trigger."
Runaway Guns would mean more if friendly fire is in place.
For the unenlightened it means that the gun keeps firing until it jams or until it runs out of ammo regardless of the fact that you have released the trigger. It is not exactly a fun thing to have happen, especially when the confused dumbass behind the gun lets go of it instead of holding it down so it doesn't jump around and kill anyone nearby.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5940
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Posted - 2014.12.23 22:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Runaway guns would be more meaningful at longer ranges honestly.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5942
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Posted - 2014.12.23 22:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Her Chosen wrote:Simple solution: Cut its range in half.
Its a tanked out point defense. Vaporizing anything with that DPS beyond 20m is unbalanced
And you're still wrong.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5945
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Posted - 2014.12.24 11:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Her Chosen wrote:Simple solution: Cut its range in half.
Its a tanked out point defense. Vaporizing anything with that DPS beyond 20m is unbalanced And you're still wrong. Perfectly right to me ^^ This and a charge up time could balance the HUGE dps of the weapon. I'd say 0.6s. Then it can fire from 1800RPM to 3000RPM until it overheats. At least it would require a bit of aiming, strategy, and heat management (that should be brought back to what it used to be pre 1.10.2 in this case).
Rattati said spool time is off the table.
Reducing the range much more and you're in danger of the sentinel class swapping wholesale to shotguns mass drivers and rifles. It's not a solution.
No one wants to admit that I'm right and sentinels need their asses booted from CQC but I'm right. CQC should be the domain of the armor brawling assault. Not the fatty fortress.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5949
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Posted - 2014.12.24 12:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:+1 to the high heat = lower ROF idea. Sounds like a reasonable way to make HMGs more skill dependent.
Could also introduce it earlier (ie, lower heat) with a lower penalty and build up as the heat does. So at 65% heat, you get a 5% ROF reduction and builds up to a 25% ROF reduction at 85% heat (or something, numbers are entirely spitballed.) Essentially a heat build-up version of damage fall off.
while I agree this CAN work, it'll completely jack up the balance of the burst HMG, which I must admit rattati did beautiful work with. But with sustained fire weapons like the HMG and assault I honestly think that the better solution is to code the anti-infantry guns to cause a turn speed penalty (preferrably one that overrides mouse DPI input) so that the Point defense role changes to keeping the enemy AWAY from the point, rather than killing them when they're already there.
If we made it so the Assault and Standard HMGs operated at longer range but were vulnerable to assaults and scouts in close I think we would see the Sentinel properly fall into a supporting role rather than the go-to suit for killing. Right now this is the problem because the way the gun is designed it's too potent in close, but nerfing it to rifle levels just... makes it bad.
I think moving it out will change the game sharply. Define weapons that are meant for primary anti-infantry at range unwieldy and clunky in close combat (like the oft-used analogy of devastator squads being crap in CQC) and make the close range anti-infantry weapons balanced like the Burst. Powerful with clear drawbacks that REQUIRE high levels of aggression to succeed deploying as well as requiring a high level of discipline and control to keep from overextending and killing yourself.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5953
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Posted - 2014.12.24 14:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
the scalpel is failing to do the job.
It's time for the hacksaw.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5953
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Posted - 2014.12.24 15:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:The HMG only has one problem.
Aim assist.
Same as the shotgun.
You have these giant generalized circles to aim with... Use them.
You don't NEED a pinpoint aiming system that helps you land bullets with these weapons.
Heavies NEED the health pool they have. they NEED the resistances they have. The HMG doesn't NEED Aim assist.
What in the rippling, never-ending hell are you getting on about?
No one here is complaining that the HMG is underpowered.
No.
One.
If anything we're in agreement that it's overperforming.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5961
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Posted - 2014.12.24 16:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Nothing about heavies changed in the last few months besides a heat build-up nerf. Why the nerf threads now? Nothing better to nerf? Strongboxes could only distract the QQ'ers for so long. A nerf is coming. It is important the the Sentinel community is involved in figuring out what that nerf will be. Go ask the ADS pilots what happens when you stick your head in the sand.
This. So much this.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5969
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Posted - 2014.12.24 20:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:HMG is fine, it is the suits that wields it resistances that are the problem. Within 30m the HMG should murder face. The problem is that at light weapon ranges even the heavy suit can waddle away because dps can not be applied fast enough to drop them. This is the problem. At range heavies should be cannon fodder, and just currently are not. This is partially due to kincats being too effective on heavies. My mlt bpo can get close to 7m sprint (thats close to assault speeds), have high hp, an murder (as intended) in cqc.
TL;DR The hmg has plenty of drawbacks. The heavy suit has no drawbacks when fitted right.
spoken like someone who's never used the sentinel before.
Well done.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5970
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Posted - 2014.12.24 20:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Words Words Words Words
The HMG is overperforming. You don't have time under normal circumstances to worry about the resists because you get mulched.
And no one cares how much of a no-lifer you are. this doesn't make your opinion "More valid."
15% resists to one weapon profile and 10% to another isn't gamebreaking.
But your assertion that it's *only* the resists on the suits ignores EVERY OTHER FACTOR behind why Sentinels are so successful and thus spammed.
It's not just one reason. It's NEVER just one reason. Anyone who tells you otherwise has tunnel vision.
My qualifications to make this statement?
Galsent 5
Calsent 5
Minsent 5
Amsent 5
Forge gun 5 + prof
HMG 5 + prof
Been running sentinels almost exclusively since chromosome.
Your assessment is dead wrong and attacks a symptom, not the cause
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5977
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Posted - 2014.12.25 03:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Nothing about heavies changed in the last few months besides a heat build-up nerf. Why the nerf threads now? Nothing better to nerf? Strongboxes could only distract the QQ'ers for so long. A nerf is coming. It is important the the Sentinel community is involved in figuring out what that nerf will be. Go ask the ADS pilots what happens when you stick your head in the sand. I am an ads pilot, I was around for that horrible Nerf, never flew again. Heavies, screw you guys, don't need to be nerfed. All the suits are balanced right now just buff the logis.
nerfed is only one possible solution. My solution is to change the role of the HMG. My idea it'd still be lethel as hell, you just couldn't field it as mindlessly as most sentinels are nowadays.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5987
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Posted - 2014.12.25 08:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:How to balance it in that range.
You can't. This has been proven time and time again.
Quote:Changing it to a ranged weapon only adds problems, it doesn't solve any, because we would have to completely strip away all the previous changes that were made to the weapon to refine it as it was designed in the first place. I don't see any point in grabbing a new sheet of paper when we've already erased and fixed the wobbly lines.
the wobbly lines are still there, the damn thing resists balancing in CQC.
Quote:Citing the Closed Beta HMG is also somewhat flawed because as I mentioned in a previous post the HMG was laser accurate
Incorrect, the laser HMG was a product of UPRISING, not Closed Beta. In Uprising the Dispersion characteristic got knocked back to the laser beam.
Quote:I don't see any logical or rational evidence provided as to why it should be a longer ranged weapon other than entitlement and anecdotal evidence. There are much more simple solutions that exist to finish fine-tuning the weapon into balance than throwing all of that away and starting that from scratch because a handful of people said "I'm right and no-one wants to admit it" or "I've been playing heavy longer".
There is no more Evidence that it SHOULD be a CQC weapon than anecdote and opinion either. And without a drawback in CQC, adding range would be the idiot ball anyway, so quit cherry picking parts of peoples' ideas to point out why it's bad.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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