DUST Search - To Rattati: HMG balance.

Fox Gaden wrote:

Alena, your first solution is problematic. Increasing dispersion will shorten the range at which the HMG is effective while making it even easier to hit your target in close quarters. Since the current Heavy 514 meta is primarily a problem in confined spaces, this would exacerbate the problem by making HMG Sentinels stronger in close quarters where they are already too strong, while making them weaker in mid rang where they are already weak.

I find your second proposal very interesting however.

It puts reduced DPS on the back end, with a good explanation of the mechanics that cause it. It would reward player skill in heat management, while not penalizing the Spray & Prey crowd as drastically as a seize up. It still leaves the overheat seize up mechanic in place though for anyone who goes completely overboard.

I would suggest:
-At 75% heat the Rate of fire drops.
-At 75% heat, due to the rate of fire dropping, the heat buildup drops too, so that the last 25% heat buildup takes a bit longer.

With the heat reduction due to the rate of fire decreasing, the HMG would remain in this lower damage state longer before overheating. People who used HMG as a Spray & Prey weapon would spend a great deal of time in this lower damage state. While dedicated Sentinels would learn to control their heat in order to maintain higher on target DPS.

It would be less frustrating than is initial rev up mechanic. It would also be add an additional element of player skill to the effective use of the weapon.

Edit: I removed the suggestion I had for increasing dispersion at 75% heat as well. Although hot barrels makes me think of dispersion, it would be best to only change the variables of rate of fire and heat buildup at first so we can clearly see the effect, before considering adding another variable.


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Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2318	Posted - 2014.12.23 11:29:00 - [1] - Quote So this is the third time I believe that heat has been nerfed on HMGs, and Heavy 514 is still going strong. I think it's time to admit that heat isn't the issue here. I believe I have found a few possible solutions (would like Fox Gaden to chime in.) So the HMG doesn't do damage through high shot damage. In fact, it has one of the lowest per-shot values of any weapon in the game (SMG does more damage per shot even!) The HMG is feared because of how fast it can shoot. It kills by volume of fire, not accuracy of fire. I believe the high DPS is a good thing, but the issue IMO is damage application. To put it simply, too many bullets are impacting a target from too great a distance. Now we could reduce the optimal range of the HMG, But I believe this is a draconian solution. It isn't exactly competing with the RR at range. So instead, let's tune its dispersion. The mechanic of it getting more accurate as you fire is interesting, so let's keep up that behavior. Now, let's simply reduce the amount of max accuracy gain. This means that each bullet still does full damage at a given range, but less bullets will be hitting you since the dispersion is increased, meaning lower DPS at range. Keep the accuracy gain mechanic, but reduce the amount of total accuracy it can gain. Another solution is to negatively affect its performance as it approaches the overheat threshold. Let's say once you get to 75% total heat, the ROF starts going down as the heat causes the weapon to malfunction. This happens with modern firearms as the heat expands the action, making the weapon fire slower since the bolt is being pinched by the expanded metal. So from 75% to 100% heat (100% heat is where you seize) your ROF begins to fall to say 50% of normal. This makes heat management more of an issue since high heat negatively affects your HMGs performance. I would undo the most recent nerf to heat should you take this route. Two possible solutions, or a combination thereof. Would like to hear Fox Gaden's thoughts on this. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2324	Posted - 2014.12.23 19:16:00 - [2] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Alena, your first solution is problematic. Increasing dispersion will shorten the range at which the HMG is effective while making it even easier to hit your target in close quarters. Since the current Heavy 514 meta is primarily a problem in confined spaces, this would exacerbate the problem by making HMG Sentinels stronger in close quarters where they are already too strong, while making them weaker in mid rang where they are already weak. I find your second proposal very interesting however. It puts reduced DPS on the back end, with a good explanation of the mechanics that cause it. It would reward player skill in heat management, while not penalizing the Spray & Prey crowd as drastically as a seize up. It still leaves the overheat seize up mechanic in place though for anyone who goes completely overboard. I would suggest: -At 75% heat the Rate of fire drops. -At 75% heat, due to the rate of fire dropping, the heat buildup drops too, so that the last 25% heat buildup takes a bit longer. With the heat reduction due to the rate of fire decreasing, the HMG would remain in this lower damage state longer before overheating. People who used HMG as a Spray & Prey weapon would spend a great deal of time in this lower damage state. While dedicated Sentinels would learn to control their heat in order to maintain higher on target DPS. It would be less frustrating than is initial rev up mechanic. It would also be add an additional element of player skill to the effective use of the weapon. Edit: I removed the suggestion I had for increasing dispersion at 75% heat as well. Although hot barrels makes me think of dispersion, it would be best to only change the variables of rate of fire and heat buildup at first so we can clearly see the effect, before considering adding another variable. There is also a malfunction called a runaway gun, where the heat buildup is so high that it sets off the ammo as it enters the chamber and the gun basically fires by itself until it runs out of ammo. This is also something we could do. As for reducing heat buildup on the tail end during the "malfunction stage" I would disagree on lowering heat buildup. The idea is to punish the heavy for letting heat build up, while being not as severe as a total seize up. In addition, I would decrease heat buildup across the board by 75%, giving skilled heavies who manage their heat more wiggle-room. In addition, the sound of the HMG slowing down could act as a warning to a heavy that he's about to overheat, allowing him to back off and cool down/switch to a sidearm. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2324	Posted - 2014.12.23 20:29:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Runaway gun, AKA a "Casper" As in "A ghost is holding down the trigger." Runaway Guns would mean more if friendly fire is in place. For the unenlightened it means that the gun keeps firing until it jams or until it runs out of ammo regardless of the fact that you have released the trigger. It is not exactly a fun thing to have happen, especially when the confused dumbass behind the gun lets go of it instead of holding it down so it doesn't jump around and kill anyone nearby. Or when you have some boot that wants to drop the SAW during a training exercise when it decides to runaway on him mid-movement. You make a good point about friendly fire, but I feel like it is a solid idea to have the weapon begin to malfunction as it overheats. Fox made a good point about my first solution, although I still think it could help, but the second one is unique and could present some interesting scenarios; like an HMG whose about to overheat, his weapon screaming in protest as it begins to slow down from the excess friction of the expanding metal, and the heavy must make a snap decision whether to finish off his target and risk a full seize up, or back off and cool down while letting his target escape by the skin of his armor. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2335	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:47:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Nothing about heavies changed in the last few months besides a heat build-up nerf. Why the nerf threads now? Nothing better to nerf? Strongboxes could only distract the QQ'ers for so long. A nerf is coming. It is important the the Sentinel community is involved in figuring out what that nerf will be. Go ask the ADS pilots what happens when you stick your head in the sand. I am an ads pilot, I was around for that horrible Nerf, never flew again. Heavies, screw you guys, don't need to be nerfed. All the suits are balanced right now just buff the logis. nerfed is only one possible solution. My solution is to change the role of the HMG. My idea it'd still be lethel as hell, you just couldn't field it as mindlessly as most sentinels are nowadays. To? Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.