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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4075
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Posted - 2014.12.22 23:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
*Pulls Flameproof suit on*
Ok so like, I've been eying the dropsuit bonuses for some time now and I feel like some of them need...more. So put all of the bonuses in tabular form to do a cross comparison and basically (with some deviation) they all have a role bonus which reduces the fitting cost of the equipment or weapons which define that suit. Assaults get lighter weapons (grenades, sidearms, light weapons), Sentinels get Heavy Weapons, Scouts get their cloaks, Logistics gets their equipment, and Commandos...well they're the bastard brother of the Assault but we'll get there later. I think the Role Bonuses themselves are pretty solid, that much all seems fair.
The racial bonuses however start to get a little strange.
Scouts get 2 bonuses which affect Scanning/Hacking/Mobility/StabbyStab.
Sentinels get 2 bonuses which affect resisting certain damage types (3 if you count the Splash reduction).
Logistics get 1 bonus which affects their racial equipment.
Assaults get 1 bonus which affects their racial weapon.
Commandos get 1 bonus which affects their racial weapon.
So you can see there is a bit of a discrepancy in the number of racial bonuses, and additionally the Assault/Commando and Assault/Logi dichotomy has always frustrated me.
Assault/Logi
Aside from the sidearm and higher base HP, I've always disliked how the Assault never really had a bonus that screamed "USE THIS TO KILL ALL THE THINGS!" Don't get me wrong the weapon support bonus is nice, but I don't think it goes far enough in really nailing that ASSAULT feel to really set them apart from Logistics. I mean Damage would be a nice but with the Commando....
Assault/Commando
Love the commando to death, but lets be honest, the fat little tomato should have never existed in the first place. From the start the Assault should have had 2 light weapons and then called it a day. However the bastard brother Commando was born and is here to stay. That being said, I never understood why people so desperately tried to make them so different from Assaults, when in reality...they're two sides of the same coin. Suuure people will dive into the flavor text and say "BUT BUT BUT ITS A SUPPRESSION UNIT!" however I cant exactly suppress someone with my Assault Rifle if they're using a Rail Rifle, and also the 'Toxin' SMG is supposed to basically do damage over time according to the flavor text so....I disregard that stuff completely. Assaults and Commandos are very very similar roles, executed in slightly different ways.
My point is, why try to make the Assault and Commando so different? They're both lacking a second bonus anyways, so lets make them be the ugly little brothers they are. Let the Assault have a damage bonus to definitively set it apart from Logistics, and let the Commando have a weapon support bonus that affects the racial weapons in a different way than the Assault. So as a rough outline...(values are per level)
~Amarr~
Assault
+2% Damage for Laser Weapons
+5% Reduction to Heat Buildup in Laser Weapons
Commando
+2% Damage for Laser Weapons
+5% Reduction to Charge Time for Laser Weapons
~Caldari~
Assault
+2% Damage for Hybrid-Rail Weapons
+5% Reduction to Recoil for Hybrid-Rail Weapons
Commando
+2% Damage for Hybrid-Rail Weapons
+5% Reduction to Charge Time for Hybrid-Rail Weapons
~Gallente~
Assault
+2% Damage for Hybrid-Blaster Weapons
+5% Reduction to Dispersion for Hybrid-Rail Weapons
Commando
+2% Damage for Hybrid-Blaster Weapons
+5% Splash Radius for Hybrid-Blaster weapons
OR
+5% Bonus to Projectile Speed for Hybrid-Blaster Weapons
~Minmatar~
Assault
+2% Damage for Projectile & Explosive Weapons
+5% Increase to Magazine Size for Projectile
Commando
+2% Damage for Projectile & Explosive Weapons
+5% Increase to Splash Radius of Explosive weapons
Go ahead! Flame away! My Body is Ready!
Oh and I'm not going to even touch Logistics in this one, that's an entirely other massive topic to tackle. And yes, I know Commandos need a buff in various ways, this is just part of that.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
1491
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 23:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
2% per level would actually be OP on Assaults. I don't think 1% would be a problem though.
Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4075
|
Posted - 2014.12.22 23:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:2% per level would actually be OP on Assaults. I don't think 1% would be a problem though.
Fair enough. Values are tentative as per usual.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
778
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Posted - 2014.12.23 02:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
To be honest, I don't think that the Min or Amarr assault suits should be buffed any more. I just switched over to the Min Assault, and it's bonus is already huge. I can snag kills that I would otherwise lose to reloads with it, and it allows me to be way more mobile to boot. I'm against bumping up the racial bonus on these two suits.
I think that Caldari and Galente suits could use a better racial bonus, and that the assault role could use a retweak:
- 5% Fitting optimization to Weapons (Light Weapon, Sidearm, Grenade) per level
- 1% Resistance to Enemy faction's weapon damage per level (?)
The best solution would be tiericide and give each frame its own bonus, but I don't think that's in the books
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
774
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Posted - 2014.12.23 03:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm putting on a double flameproof suit for this...
What if we gave the Commandos the ability to use heavy weapons?
"BLASPHEMY!". Hear me out, please.
The commando is a heavy suit so why does it not have access to heavy weapons? However, it isn't as bulky or strong as the Sentinels, so there would be some drawbacks to fitting an HMG or Forge gun.
THE DRAWBACKS:
The commando's 10% weapon bonus would not apply to Heavy weapons, only light.
The commando can ONLY fit 1 heavy weapon per fitting. The other slot is restricted to a light weapon or sidearm like the current fitting.
When a heavy weapon is fitted and NOT deployed, there is a 10% penalty to movement.
When a heavy weapon is fitted and deployed, there is a 20% penalty to movement. (#'s are just for discussion, totally up for debate)
If a Commando meets a Sentinel and they are both using HMGs, the Commando (should be) toast due to the lower HP capabilities. If he meets an assault or scout, he will be much slower (should he have an HMG equipped and deployed) so it would be a more even battle than against a Sentinel because of the lower HP fittings.
THE BENEFITS:
Adaptability: By giving them access to heavy weapons, it gives them access to the entire gamut of weapons and combinations, which would make the Commandos unique in their role. It gives Mercs options and lets them decide which modules to equip because of the diversity. Do I want to put a Heavy damage mod or light damage mod? Do I want to use damage mods at all or do shield extenders/enhancers/etc.?
With the different possibilities of Heavy + Light weapons, the Commando would have nearly infinite combinations. Forge Gun/ Scrambler Rifle. HMG / Laser Rifle. Forge Gun / Shotgun. If someone wanted to be the ultimate CQC, HMG/Shotgun. For long range, Forge Gun / Sniper Rifle. If you want to be an Anti AV death machine, Forge Gun/Swarm Launcher.
If this was the only bonus given to Commandos (the ability to equip heavy weapons), would it be:
a: enough for Commando users to bring it line with other weapons and not be underpowered, making it viable to use on the battlefield
b: not so much of a benefit (which is why I have put the different drawbacks in) that is becomes OVERpowered and we start seeing Commando 514.
Any thoughts/comments?
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4082
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 04:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:The best solution would be tiericide and give each frame its own bonus, but I don't think that's in the books
Tieiricide would change nothing to do with bonuses....
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
7579
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 04:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:To be honest, I don't think that the Min or Amarr assault suits should be buffed any more. I just switched over to the Min Assault, and it's bonus is already huge. I can snag kills that I would otherwise lose to reloads with it, and it allows me to be way more mobile to boot. I'm against bumping up the racial bonus on these two suits.
I think that Caldari and Galente suits could use a better racial bonus, and that the assault role could use a retweak:
- 5% Fitting optimization to Weapons (Light Weapon, Sidearm, Grenade) per level
- 1% Resistance to Enemy faction's weapon damage per level (?)
The best solution would be tiericide and give each frame its own bonus, but I don't think that's in the books
Agreed. I can accomplish amazing things with my Minmatar Assault versus my Gallente Assault. Point in case.
The Min Assault's speed and recovery are incredible while also having a decent buffer. 450 Shields and 250 Armor with a 4 second downtime on the shields while also having the speed to disengage allows you to choose your engagements. That's something the Gallente Assault can't do as you're too slow to be able to do so, having to commit to any fight you're in. Trouble is, you're often going to lose as the current meta still has a hard focus on Heavies which (as Kain Spero put it) are defined by their HMG since they have no other anti-infantry weapons, which can make short work of the Gallente.
All in all, the Min Assault is perfectly fine. I can't speak for the Amarr Assault but it seems to have a really good bonus toward it's weapon. I think that the Caldari Assault will do really well with a recoil reduction, as seems to already be the plan. The only remaining thing is the Gallente Assault which has a remarkably useless bonus to dispersion and I think we need to get away from that because of how confined it is (only really applying to the Assault Rifle which already has Sharpshooter and Ion Pistol which also has Sharpshooter).
I know a lot of people are adverse to a damage bonus on the Gallente Assault but I really do think that that or perhaps increased range are the only valuable things for their weaponry.
Aeon Amadi's Important Links
I'm a paying player. My opinion matters more.
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Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
779
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Posted - 2014.12.23 05:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Piercing Serenity wrote:The best solution would be tiericide and give each frame its own bonus, but I don't think that's in the books Tieiricide would change nothing to do with bonuses....
As far as I understand it, it would allow us to create unique frames with their own bonuses, and we could make tweaks to those more easily than trying to bonus a whole class
but maybe I misunderstand
Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz
Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
1496
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 05:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
I know a lot of people are adverse to a damage bonus on the Gallente Assault but I really do think that that or perhaps increased range are the only valuable things for their weaponry.
This is because ARs have no real downsides to using them, on the whole.
They're easymode.
Plasma Cannons and Ion Pistols are balanced with their drawbacks, because they are new. But ARs still behave exactly like the do-all rifles they were originally designed to be. They were built from the ground up to be these weaklessness rifles that people could use until we got parity. And they haven't changed
Simple fix:
Give ARs as big of a drawback as the other three rifles, whatever that may be... then give the Gallassault a bonus that partially mitigates this drawback.
And guess what? The range isn't this drawback. They have the same DPS/Range ratio as everyone else, so that isn't the drawback.
Currently, ARs are OP.
They have a disproportionately large skill/power ratio, because they do just as well as the other three, but with no worrying about overheat, spool ups, or mag capacity.
Someone's gotta tell the stupids that their ideas are bad, and I guess it's my job...
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4082
|
Posted - 2014.12.23 05:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
 Right because having the shortest range, as in, cannot counter other rifles which will all perform at longer ranges, is clearly OP
*facepalm*
But then people want to give them a range bonus which then boosts the range into the other rifles range, which then in turn makes them overpowered.
*facepalm*
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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