DUST Search - Just figured out that JLAV's are still a thing

KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:

I gotta say I like jihad jeeps, from both angles. Even the tankers'.
There are a few reasons why they are okay.

JLAVs are not that powerful as people with one sided experience would think.
Easy to counter and even without using those counters they often just plain fail. JLAV success ratio is far less than 50%. Far.

Why is that?
It's not that LAVs can teleport next to you.
Good tankers are aware of most vehicle deployments. LAVs can be heard and good tankers realise the risk of possible JLAV and prepare to face it.

JLAV user has to do all the following:

Respawn - or run - to a distant location (otherwise there is a chance LAV deplo gets busted)
Vehicle quota must not be reached
Has to have peaceful moment to prep REs
Has to find where the tank has moved to (weak tankers stay put as turrets, good ones move)
Has to approach tank preferably from rear (to avoid getting blown)
Has to be lucky enough not to be blown by small arms (or sacrifice more prepping by using other player's remotes)
And finally has to hit fast tank enough to detonate - easy on flat ground but very tricky on rolling terrain

Above there's plenty of uncertainties or delaying factors. The whole process can take minutes, long time out of a 4-15 min matches.
EDIT: Even bigger now as the bug 'unsuitable location' is here.

Cheap isk-wise, yes, but isk balancing is worst balancing.

The biggest thing is the price in sacrificing fight time on which you could be helping your team otherwise.

*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.


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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16210	Posted - 2014.12.22 10:21:00 - [1] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Because Gunlogis are invincible as ever. Yet I'm trying to fix Gunnlogi. What the **** are you doing about JLAV's? *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16210	Posted - 2014.12.22 10:52:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Because Gunlogis are invincible as ever. Yet I'm trying to fix Gunnlogi. What the ** are you doing about JLAV's? JLAVs are love. JLAVs are life. And to the nerd saying gunnlogis are easy... Gunnlogis under 20 mil SP are easy. Let's not make any mistake. 25 mil gunlogis will take 2-3 AV to bring down because of just how heavily they can be tanked. Upper end gunnlogis are out of balance. Yeah they are and Ill be the first to admit that..... but one broken mechanic should not be widely accepted as a positive thing in order to beat the other. JLAV are almost 0 risk for massive potential reward. Honestly when Rattati speaks of bringing back Marauder, etc I can see why some pilots want them to be OP..... who the ** wants to play a 1.5-3.0 million ISK HAV when a douche bag with less than 50K ISK can instantly wreck you with little to no effort. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16221	Posted - 2014.12.22 23:45:00 - [3] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: I love how everyone calling JLAVing a "crutch" and "for scrubs" is rolling around in super-tanked mobile murder fortresses with ridiculous armor/shield reppers, and likely wearing a heavy suit with HMG to mow down any stragglers. Who is doing that? I wear a basic light frame with a scrambler pistol and no cloak and never leave my vehicle...... Armour reps are not ridiculous but they are passive which never made sense, and Shield reps are yes ridiculous which is why I'm trying to get Ratatti to put them back the way they used to be on Chromosome. But JLAVing is a broken mechanic. It's simply a bad mechanic. Most players have paid for BPO's of suits, LAV, etc meaning only the RE's themselves are required essentially ensuring and investment of between 1500 and 30,000 ISK tops and 0SP trumps a role that costs millions of SP and 500,000 ISK. Now I'm not saying I want to be an invincible tanker, I never have, all I want is for a player with a real AV weapon or another tank/dropship etc to kill me. The tactic rewards players too much for too little risk. You know you are going to die so you are ISK efficient. You know you could run this tactic 10x (in some cases indefinately) and still remain ISK positive. That's not in keeping with New Eden at all. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16254	Posted - 2014.12.24 08:49:00 - [4] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: I gotta say I like jihad jeeps, from both angles. Even the tankers'. There are a few reasons why they are okay. JLAVs are not that powerful as people with one sided experience would think. Easy to counter and even without using those counters they often just plain fail. JLAV success ratio is far less than 50%. Far. Why is that? It's not that LAVs can teleport next to you. Good tankers are aware of most vehicle deployments. LAVs can be heard and good tankers realise the risk of possible JLAV and prepare to face it. JLAV user has to do all the following: Respawn - or run - to a distant location (otherwise there is a chance LAV deplo gets busted) Vehicle quota must not be reached Has to have peaceful moment to prep REs Has to find where the tank has moved to (weak tankers stay put as turrets, good ones move) Has to approach tank preferably from rear (to avoid getting blown) Has to be lucky enough not to be blown by small arms (or sacrifice more prepping by using other player's remotes) And finally has to hit fast tank enough to detonate - easy on flat ground but very tricky on rolling terrain Above there's plenty of uncertainties or delaying factors. The whole process can take minutes, long time out of a 4-15 min matches. EDIT: Even bigger now as the bug 'unsuitable location' is here. Cheap isk-wise, yes, but isk balancing is worst balancing. The biggest thing is the price in sacrificing fight time on which you could be helping your team otherwise. Actually ISK balancing would be fantastic balancing. The more useful something is, with the correct components the more valuable the components are the high the cost to field those items, thus reducing the access players have to them depending on their value on the Market. For example- A T3 Cruiser is incredibly expensive because it is incredibly powerful and useful. However their use is restricted by their massive costs. It is not economical to take a 1 Billion + ISK vessel out to simply PvP. A Dust comparison might be the Marauder. It could be a very difficult unit to destroy. But if a Marauder costs 3-4 Million ISK to field its use outside of controlled situations would be uneconomical to run. Contrary to this ideal is the JLAV. It's cheap and dirty and immensely powerful. It's like ramming a 0SP toon in a rookie ship into a 100 million SP player in a Battleship for an instant kill and killmail and calling that fair. It's frankly not fair. It would be fantastic instead if players could use the vehicles inertia to ram the jeep into the tank severely damaging but not destroying it and them following that up AV fire or grenades. But being a 50,000 ISK solution requiring at best only the SP to use Remote Explosives vs a Player who has forked out 10x the ISK, 10x the SP and pretending like your broken mechanic is positive gameplay, possessed of some great skill, or fair is ridiculous. Now I won't say "TAKE OUT JIHAD JEEP! MEH SALTY TEARS!" I'd say tone it down. Give HAVers a chance to react and not make this an instant kill. Hell most players hate the Scrambler Rifle charged shot claiming its and instant kill, or the HMG is OP cuz its TTK is too quick, or the shotgun scout is OP because you cannot react to it..... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.