DUST Search - Rattati, Breach Plasma Cannons? plz.

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Damage per shot can't get too out of hand, primarily because damage modifiers are percentages and thus the amount of bonus damage increases substantially if direct damage increases.I mean at 3000 damage, Proficiency 5 would tack on an additional 450 shield damage...that's insane. And like you pointed out, a dual Gallmando could burst damage 6900 shield damage. Even the Breach Forge is only a 45% increase in damage per shot, with similar overall DPS.

How would you feel about a 50% increase to shot damage with an increase of spool time from 0.6 to 0.9 seconds and increased reload from 3.5 to 4.0. Reduced splash radius and damge, slower projectile.

Allotek PLC (No Skills)
1155 Damage
0.6 Spool + 3.5 Reload = 1 shot every 4.1 seconds
282 DPS

Allotek PLC (Max Skills + Galmmando)
1461 Damage
0.45 Spool + 2.2 Reload = 1 shot every 2.65 seconds
551 DPS

Breach PLC (No Skills)
1755 Damage (52% increase)
0.9 Spool (50% increase) + 4.0 Reload = 1 shot every 4.9 seconds
358 DPS (27% increase)
Slower Projectile
Smaller Splash Radius
Less Splash Damage

Breach PLC (Max Skils + Galmmando)
2220 Damage
0.675 Spool + 2.55 Reload = 1 shot every 3.225 seconds
688 DPS (25% increase)
Slower Projectile
Smaller Splash Radius
Less Splash Damage


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Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1386	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:50:00 - [1] - Quote I mostly just want a cannon that has the same velocity and arc as they used to have, and a Breach Cannon is the perfect way to reintroduce them. Just make it exactly the same as the old Cannons, but give it a STRONG damage boost. I'm thinking like almost 3000 damage per shot here. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1386	Posted - 2014.12.17 22:09:00 - [2] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: With damage that high, you would have to increase the reload time substantially. On a Level 5 Gallmando with a single Proto Damage mod with Proficiency & Reload 5, I'd be dealing over 4000 Shield Damage a shot every 2.22 seconds You are forgetting the 0.6s spool up time. 2.83 seconds would be the very fastest they could fire with that setup, but due to the high skill requirement and slow projectile speed(which would delay the first hit, and give the target ample opportunity to dodge subsequent hits) I'd say the slugs would only actually land every 3.5-4.0 seconds at best. Maybe at point blank the user could get a hit every 3 seconds. Plasma Cannons take a moment for the user to think about the trajectory, and if the target knows where the cannoneer is, they are very easy to dodge, especially with the old speed. ...and a Galmando could just equip 2 plasma cannons to bypass the reload time completely, as is the nature of Commandos. Not only that, but you are talking about a very niche and optimized setup that almost nobody would use, and that even with this cannon added, almost nobody would use... The amount of people with Plasma Cannon Proficiency 5 and Rapid Reload 5 and Galmando 5 must be under 20. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1386	Posted - 2014.12.17 22:27:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Actually at max skill its 0.45 spool time, but regardless. You want to triple the base damage with the only downside being a slower projectile? Triple? Last I checked, Allotek Plasma Cannons do 1501.5 damage, not 1000. The 3000 damage would be the Prototype one. I don't expect the Basic one to do any more than 2500-2600. So it would be about 200% damage. I think that's reasonable. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1388	Posted - 2014.12.17 22:43:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Actually at max skill its 0.45 spool time, but regardless. You want to triple the base damage with the only downside being a slower projectile? Triple? Last I checked, Allotek Plasma Cannons do 1501.5 damage, not 1000. The ~3000 damage would be the Prototype one. I don't expect the Basic one to do any more than 2500-2600. If there even would be a basic one. There would probably only be ADV and PRO. So it would be about 200% damage. I think that's reasonable. And I'm sure the splash would be reduced, if we see the BrMD and Be Flaylock as examples, but that's not a bid deal to be fair. Base Damage before modifiers at 3000 per shot and the same RoF as the standard variant? No. This is poorly balanced and needs more consideration. This would produce a weapon with more DPS than the Large Blaster. Alright, I'm pretty adamant about the Damage and reload time(so that the reload animation isn't painfully slow), but I'll be willing to alter other areas... Maybe it could carry less ammo? Maybe only 5 rounds instead of 9? Or maybe an increased spoolup time? Bump it up to 0.75 seconds... I feel like the DPS should actually be substantially higher though... Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 01:16:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Damage per shot can't get too out of hand, primarily because damage modifiers are percentages and thus the amount of bonus damage increases substantially if direct damage increases.I mean at 3000 damage, Proficiency 5 would tack on an additional 450 shield damage...that's insane. And like you pointed out, a dual Gallmando could burst damage 6900 shield damage. Even the Breach Forge is only a 45% increase in damage per shot, with similar overall DPS. How would you feel about a 50% increase to shot damage with an increase of spool time from 0.6 to 0.9 seconds and increased reload from 3.5 to 4.0. Reduced splash radius and damge, slower projectile. Allotek PLC (No Skills) 1155 Damage 0.6 Spool + 3.5 Reload = 1 shot every 4.1 seconds 282 DPS Allotek PLC (Max Skills + Galmmando) 1461 Damage 0.45 Spool + 2.2 Reload = 1 shot every 2.65 seconds 551 DPS Breach PLC (No Skills) 1755 Damage (52% increase) 0.9 Spool (50% increase) + 4.0 Reload = 1 shot every 4.9 seconds 358 DPS (27% increase) Slower Projectile Smaller Splash Radius Less Splash Damage Breach PLC (Max Skils + Galmmando) 2220 Damage 0.675 Spool + 2.55 Reload = 1 shot every 3.225 seconds 688 DPS (25% increase) Slower Projectile Smaller Splash Radius Less Splash Damage The Allotek does 1501.5 damage. Protofits hasn't updated it yet... I don't know why, its been that way for months and months now. The basic Plasma Cannon now does the 1155 damage that the really old Alloteks used to do. And with all those drawbacks, a 50% boost wouldn't be worth it. The slower projectile velocity alone warrants a 50% boost... No. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 02:55:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Trading projectile speed which effectively lowers range for a 25% increase in DPS? You act like Plasma Cannons were worthless before the speed increase, and if you were proficient at using them, you should know that it was still extremely viable. Lack of speed just makes the gun harder to use, trading that for a 25% increase to DPS is more that reasonable. But my all means, submit your iWin button, I'm totally sure CCP will love it. The lower projectile speed was able to be dodged, by HAVs at any range further than 50-60m, never mind that they would always just run away after getting hit twice. The old projectile speed made plasma cannons effectively useless against Dropships and LAVs because even if you could hit them once, you would almost never hit them 2x unless it was unmanned. Trying to pretend that they were a good AV option is silly, and I was one of the better Cannoneers. The only vehicle kills I ever got was against shitfit-badpilot-Sicas and nearly-dead Dropships for a killsteal(and one time I got lucky and shot a guy out of a LAV). They were a better anti infantry weapon than AV, and even then they were the worst anti infantry weapon in the game. I never even pretended to use them because they were good, I used them because they were a novelty and fun, and to make the game more interesting for everyone involved, including the people I killed. They are only a passable AV option even today. Not a good one. If you seriously think having the range effectively cut into Gàô, requiring at least 2x the player skill, and having ANYONE, including HAVs, be able to dodge it at any range that isn't practically point blank... If you think that doesn't warrant more than a 50% boost in damage, your ********. Or biased. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 03:00:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I guess I didn't have nearly as much trouble as you did. My apologies. I only ever had problems against vehicles with them, not so much today though. At least I can reliably hit a hovering dropship now, it still flies away, but now I can at least make them fly away. I was very proficient at killing infantry with them, and it was all I ever really used them for. I would pull out some swarms if I wanted to fight vehicles. Even a Laser Rifle was better at AV work than they used to be. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 03:07:00 - [8] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Care to explain to me why you feel that this Breach PLC should have a substantial increase in DPS even though basically every breach weapon in the game has equal or lower DPS than its standard counterpart? Because unlike the other breach variants, this one would have less range and require more skill. Rather than equal range and equal skill. That's why I think a substantial DPS increase is warranted. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 03:27:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I'm confused as to why there is even a projectile speed reduction being considered? The slow rate of fire for the high damage is already fitting with the qualities of breach weapons..... slower projectile speed is not necessary. I actually outlined that at the beginning of the OP. I want a Plasma Cannon that has an arc like it used to. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 03:28:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm confused as to why there is even a projectile speed reduction being considered? The slow rate of fire for the high damage is already fitting with the qualities of breach weapons..... slower projectile speed is not necessary. mhmmm id prefer equal DPS with better alpha and no reduction ^_^ Make it less effective against infantry with a tighter splash and longer spool, and you're golden. So just like the Breach Mass Driver and Flaylocks? The weapons that are widely considered to be UP and useless compared to the normal variants? Lol. Please, make my Opus pretty...

Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 03:32:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm confused as to why there is even a projectile speed reduction being considered? The slow rate of fire for the high damage is already fitting with the qualities of breach weapons..... slower projectile speed is not necessary. I actually outlined that at the beginning of the OP. I want a Plasma Cannon that has an arc like it used to. You could achieve that with the Assault Plasma Cannon. A Multi-shot cannot that is designed to arc over things and have great splash damage. But I don't want it to be a multishot one. I still want to be able to instablapp any infantry, but also have the arc. The only possible variant that would be able to satisfy both of those wants would be the breach. I basically just want the old plasma cannon, but have it be actually useful at killing vehicles. Therefore, old plasma cannon with more damage is my suggestion. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 05:03:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: I'm confused as to why there is even a projectile speed reduction being considered? The slow rate of fire for the high damage is already fitting with the qualities of breach weapons..... slower projectile speed is not necessary. mhmmm id prefer equal DPS with better alpha and no reduction ^_^ Make it less effective against infantry with a tighter splash and longer spool, and you're golden. So just like the Breach Mass Driver and Flaylocks? The weapons that are widely considered to be UP and useless compared to the normal variants? Lol. Hmmm I didnt realize you had trouble directly hitting large targets like HAVs and dropships with a mass driver. I'm sorry. I didn't realize the Mass Driver was an AV weapon... Last I knew, its supposed to be used against infantry. In which case getting a direct hit actually is quite hard. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 05:30:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Ah you made it sound like since it was high damage with a slow travel that it would be too hard to hit something large like a tank. My apologies. Im just saying I never had issues killing ground vehicles with the old speed and current damage values. I guess you did, but that's ok, everyone is different. I did have problems with it actually. I could never apply DPS fast enough to kill a vehicle before they would run away, unless they were a shitfit Sica/Soma. At most I would be able to land 2-3 direct hits on STD HAVs before they would run away, which required a significant amount of forethought and skill to execute, but reaped me no rewards as far as vehicle destruction was concerned. I feel that wasn't fair to me. I had done everything that should be expected of an AV user. I planned my attacks, and waited for the vehicle to be in a compromised situation to attack. But even then, unless the vehicle was piloted extremely badly, or a shitfit, I would hardly ever get the kill, only scare them off for 15-20 seconds or have a swarm of missiles come from nowhere and get it. And this is just HAVs. If it was a LAV or a Drop ship, no amount of planning was enough go get the kill for me. I never once killed a piloted dropship with my cannon. So excuse me for thinking so, but I think that an old Plasma Cannon with a very strong boost in damage would be completely balanced. And if you are trying to attack my pride somehow... not working. I've never once seen someone get 30+ kills with a Plasma Cannon, besides myself. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 05:47:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Not attacking your pride, I'm just saying that I struggled a bit to kill vehicles before the damage buff, was able to easily kill them after the damage buff, and the speed buff made them even easier to kill. Just trying to get you to understand where I'm coming from. Nowadays I don't have too much of a problem killing LAVs and Drop ships, but HAVs still elude me for the most part. And I'd just like to point out that a Madrugar with 2 Complex armor reps is practically unkillable with any Plasma Cannon. If it has 3, its impossible. No amount of rapid reload, damage mods or Galmando will help. It could sit there, completely still, and soak up an infinite amount of Plasma Cannon shots. That's broken as ****. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 05:59:00 - [15] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: So you're saying that an armor fit designed to counter infantry AV is overpowered against a damage type that it naturally resists? Also a Madrugar can't fit 3 complex reps. Tis impossible. I can understand it having an advantage, but essential god mode? And it could even be 2 complex and 1 enhanced rep. Still invincible. You run out of ammo before you kill it. Remember in 1.7 when swarms literally couldn't get past the regeneration threshold of Shield vehicles? Remember how even the hardcore vehicle users conceded that it was broken? Yeah. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2014.12.18 06:06:00 - [16] - Quote Its also literally impossible to kill a Caldari Sentinel with a mass driver before running out of ammo. If something is specifically designed to counter something else, then yes, it should be god mod. Do you have any idea how fast rep-fit Madrugars die by other means? It's laughable.[/quote] Is that true? What if it is on a Minmando with 2 Complex LDMs, and every hit is a direct hit? Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1394	Posted - 2014.12.18 12:54:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This proposal is putting more damage than a breach forge gun with less drawback. Anyone else see a problem here? How is there less drawbacks than a Breach Forgegun? The Breach FG has a multiple round magazine. The Breach FG can hold a charge. The Breach FG has many many time the range. The Breach FG has no projectile arc. And honestly, this comparison is like comparing the Shotgun to the Sniper Rifle. The shotgun has a higher DPS, and higher damage per shot. Please, make my Opus pretty...