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[Idea] Improve NPE through Communication Level Game Modes

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Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 114	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:02:00 - [1] - Quote There has been a lot of discussion recently around the notion of improving the New Player Experience (NPE), based on the premise that new players do not persist because they are turned off by getting stomped/owned/repeatedly brutalized in battle. Most discussion has focused on the idea of constricting each battle to certain levels of gear. Others have suggested that skill level of players is more of a factor, and have suggested battle limits based on total skill points or limiting gear based on skill levels required to use that gear. Others, myself included, have suggested that the greatest factor in deciding which team is victorious is not gear, or even experience/skill of the players, but the degree of coordination and communication amongst members of one team vs the other. To truly improve NPE, methods must be found which alter the level of coordination and communication amongst team members. With this in mind, I propose the following new features to improve both New Player Experience and Old Player Experience. I believe it offers something for everyone. Please identify problems and recommend improvements. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 114	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:02:00 - [2] - Quote A preliminary step is to change the Create a Squad option to allow a choice between two sizes of squads: Max4 and Max16. The Squad Finder would reflect these two different sizes of squads by displaying them in different colors as is done now with the Daily Missions. Another preliminary step is to add a random 0 to 10 second delay between clicking to search for battle and placing the entity (player/squad) into the search queue. This to reduce Q-syncing which will not be "necessary" with the below modes. Then, I propose that three modes of battles be offered based on the level of communication available: No COMMs, Low COMMs, and High COMMs. No COMM Battles In these battles, interference and jamming have rendered all communication impossible. Features: -Only individual players who are not in squads may join this mode of battle -Squads cannot be formed while searching for battle or deployed in battle -Microphones are deactivated once deployed -Orbital Bombardments cannot be requested -Vehicles cannot be called down -Rapid deployment with zero wait time in the War Barge -A GÇ£flatterGÇ¥ reward system This style of battle will most resemble a traditional First Person Shooter experience. New players, unfamiliar with the richness of Dust, may expect this style of play. Some experienced players simply prefer solo play, or want to play a quick match or two without having to squad up or communicate. They may want to experiment with roles or fittings without letting down their team by not communicating. No COMM Option 1: If, after this mode has been in existence for some time, and there is STILL the impression that new players are turned off by being beaten, then this mode, and ONLY this mode, can be given some sort of equipment meta level cap. I, personally, think there is some value to occasionally being beaten by individual players who are skilled into better gear. It provides motivation to improve. No COMM Option 2: If, after this mode has been in existence for some time, and there still seems somehow to be GÇ£stompingGÇ¥ style coordination, then restrict this game mode to participation by players who belong only to NPC corporations, and reduce ISK payouts by 10%. No COMM Option 3: If there is concern that adding more game modes will thin the player pool too much, then restrict this mode to just Ambush. No Skirmish or Domination for this mode. Low COMM Battles In these battles, standard levels of communication are possible. These are the same sort of Pub Battles we currently have except max squad size is reduced to 4. Features: -Only non-squadded or Max4 squads can search for these battles -Max16 squads cannot be formed while searching or in battle, but players can leave squad -Microphones are available -Orbitals are available -Vehicles are available (except in regular Ambush mode) -1 minute wait time in War Barge to allow for minimal squad hopping. This style of battle will provide a mix of coordinated and non-coordinated play. New players who experiment with it will see the difference coordinated play makes, and will be encouraged to form their own squads and/or join corps to learn. Low COMM Option 1: I have heard that in the old days, 4-clone teams were tried and despised. I am not sure why. If the High COMM mode below does not satisfy player desire for extensive coordination, then Max4 can be changed to Max6. High COMM Battles In these pitched battles, pre-placement by advance parties has allowed for an exceptionally strong communication network. As such, full teams of up to 16 players can deploy together and share comms if desired. Features: -Only players who start out in Max16 squads can search for these battles (regardless of how many clones are in the squad) -Once in the War Barge, players can leave squad and/or join other squads -Microphones, Orbitals, Vehicles are available -3 minute wait time in War Barge for squad reorganizing or consolidation This style of play offers the maximum level of pre-planning and coordination outside of an actual PC match. As such it offers a great training opportunity for PCs as well as opportunities for corporation rivalry matches. High COMM Option 1: If there is concern that adding more game modes will thin the player pool too much, then restrict this mode to just Skirmish. No Ambush or Domination for this mode. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 114	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:03:00 - [3] - Quote (reserved ) FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 725	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:37:00 - [4] - Quote You hit the nail on the head for why new players don't stay, but your idea to fix it only make the issue worse. New players need MORE communication, not less. If you give them less they won't have any way to ask questions, find out about promotions, figure out what skills are needed, find out what tactics and strategies work as given to them by the vets, etc. I'm mean just telling new players that the direction you are facing when dropping a Drop Uplink onto the ground is the same direction someone will be facing when they spawn on top of it (thus facing a wall or corner when deploying them is VERY BAD), is just one example. I agree that team coordination does increase the likelihood of winning, however what's really missing is a way for new players to just chat or talk to veteran players about how the game works and why. So what I meant by needing communications improvements were things like the following: Add in a way to see that a chat channel has just been typed in DURING a match. As in if someone types something into your corp or alliance or private chat channel while you are in combat asking you something important, then you get a flashing icon in the top right corner of the screen so the next time you get a moment you can just hit "Select" and read it. Hell and even better idea is to color code the icon: Purple for Team/Squad chats and then Blue for anything else. Make sure the Purple over-rides the Blue. It is possible to enable time-stamps for messages in the chats, however this is MEANINGLESS without a clock. However the only way to see the clock is the CLOSE THE CHAT AND OPEN THE NEOCOM!!! How stupid is that? People end up responding to messages in chat that are hours old because they don't know when the fell in time. Please FIX the clock so it is always shown in the bottom left corner of the screen even during matches. This will also help with timing things like poitn captures, PC orbital strike timing, and even vehicle active module cooldown stuff. Right now when voice is enabled, when someone speaks the voice icon "lights up". Why not extend this so that whenever someone speaks, their name appears at the top center of the screen (even en quarters) so that people can start identifying voices with actual characters that they play with. I know this is possible, because in EVE when you are voiced up with DUST players, the last person to talk has their name displayed in the chat windows. Add in the freaking coordinate grid to all maps! Also please put the title of the map at the top of the screen on the map views!!!! As communication is key, accurately conveying information with that communication is the goal. You already have them labeled and gridded and labeled in the Map Feedback section of the forums: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180951&find=unread There needs to be a fix to how the PTT mode for voice works. When it comes to battle there is this little thing called COMMUNICATION DISCIPLINE! An open microphone means you are interfering with others' ability to communicate and that other may be your commander trying to give orders or a scout trying to relay intel. Instead I get to listen to some idiot screaming in the background about taking out the garbage or doing the dishes etc while a cloaker decloaks behind me and I never get to hear the decloak sound effect. Most REAL (as in not the crappy voice provide CCP has contracted to make this part of the game for them) voice programs used with games allow for the option to either use a VOX (voice activated) mode or to use a PTT (Push To Talk) mode. You have a PTT, however you choice of button for doing it is ABYSMAL!!! You also make it so that it is impossible to do any pre-match coordination using PTT because you CANNOT PTT when on a loading screen or when on ANY neocom screen (to include fittings), when on a chat window (WTF? this is part of the communications), and most importantly when on the respawn screen during a match!!! This more than anything needs to be fixed! Not to mention when I hear someone else's static all the time it not only slows down the bandwidth of the game, but it also constantly drains the battery in my wireless headset. Stop switching the active chat channel to the freaking TEAM CHAT once deploying to a match!!! This causes more frustration than you can imagine. It's already tough enough to enter text in to the chat channels in this game, but to have to scrap it all when joining a match because it will end up posting in the TEAM CHAT instead of the chat you started out in, is like some kinda trolling mechanism for CCP to watch the players screw up all the damned time! Just stop it! It would be AWESOME if there was a way to select an individual who is already in your voice chat and designate them as a "whisper" target. So that when I talk in voice it only goes to them so that I can "mentor" or just idly chat with a friend in the battle without having to clog up the overall voice comms as I explain stuff to the new guy. Whisper should become "muted" or "over-ridden" when someone else (more important) talks. There needs to be a tiered way of doing communications throughout the TEAM. As in squad members can only talk to others within their squad, but squad leaders should be able to be heard by all members of the team. Also squad leaders should "talk-over" or have higher priority to speak. I know there are more issues than the above list, but that's a good start.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 115	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:52:00 - [5] - Quote Jadd, I agree with all of your ideas. I think we are in violent agreement about the problems with chats and communication tools. Your suggestions to fix them are spot on. I only differ on thinking my idea will make things worse. It will provide a haven for those who don't wish to squad up or interact, yet still provide opportunities in other modes to do so. The mere existence of a High COMMs mode will entice and encourage new players who wish to grow and experience the richness of Dust, to join corps or chat channels where Max16 squads are formed. Smaller corps who wish to field a good group of 16 will be incentivized to train new members about the finer details of tactics and map "secrets" or tricks of the trade. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 126	Posted - 2014.12.18 20:11:00 - [6] - Quote Update: Edited above to provide a couple more perspectives on problems this idea might address. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 500	Posted - 2014.12.18 23:29:00 - [7] - Quote Interesting alternative.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 303	Posted - 2014.12.19 12:25:00 - [8] - Quote Awesome Ideas. I am not communicative at all and can only play very few matches each day/week, but I can see myself playing within this framework. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2407	Posted - 2014.12.19 18:11:00 - [9] - Quote +1 Good stuff Dubya. We need to get new peeps into squads and communicating before we start resorting to thing like tiericide(completely unnecessary imo). I could see new players making use of your system, which would make a huge difference to their early play experiences and significantly shorten their learning curve. PSN: RationalSpark
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 172	Posted - 2015.01.05 13:15:00 - [10] - Quote There has been renewed interest in this topic, so I would like to bring this up again, and hopefully get more input... FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.

Boot Booter Titans of Phoenix 1120	Posted - 2015.01.05 13:51:00 - [11] - Quote Great ideas. The high comm would be a ton of fun. Rewards would have to be much higher though.
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 769	Posted - 2015.01.05 17:43:00 - [12] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: There has been a lot of discussion recently around the notion of improving the New Player Experience (NPE), based on the premise that new players do not persist because they are turned off by getting stomped/owned/repeatedly brutalized in battle. Most discussion has focused on the idea of constricting each battle to certain levels of gear. Others have suggested that skill level of players is more of a factor, and have suggested battle limits based on total skill points or limiting gear based on skill levels required to use that gear. Others, myself included, have suggested that the greatest factor in deciding which team is victorious is not gear, or even experience/skill of the players, but the degree of coordination and communication amongst members of one team vs the other. To truly improve NPE, methods must be found which alter the level of coordination and communication amongst team members. With this in mind, I propose the following new features to improve both New Player Experience and Old Player Experience. I believe it offers something for everyone. Please identify problems and recommend improvements. I disagree. I'm not proud to say I've been in a few proto stomp squads back in AE's glory days. There was never coordination in pub matches unless we went up against another stomp squad. We were just 6 good, well equipped players who knew the game and the maps, while the blueberries didn't. Communication was never a factor. Coordination, gear, game knowledge, squad mates to communicate with all come with time and experience... which is represented by SP. Having said that SP is still the best way to group players for balance. Who cares what some sniper has to say
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 174	Posted - 2015.01.05 18:21:00 - [13] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I disagree. I'm not proud to say I've been in a few proto stomp squads back in AE's glory days. There was never coordination in pub matches unless we went up against another stomp squad. We were just 6 good, well equipped players who knew the game and the maps, while the blueberries didn't. Communication was never a factor. Coordination, gear, game knowledge, squad mates to communicate with all come with time and experience... which is represented by SP. Having said that SP is still the best way to group players for balance. Thanks for your reply Talos. You are a great player and IGÇÖd not fare well against you 1v1. I certainly am not denying that better gear and higher skills make a difference, but I think you might have overlooked some of the advantages this group of 6 players had. They were not 6 random players. Effectively, you were GÇ£Q-syncedGÇ¥ into the same battle by the very fact you were in a squad together. And by your description, you were all top notch players who knew how each other played and what role "niches" would be filled. What would be the chances of 6 top notch players being randomly thrown into the same battle together...and then the next battle...and then the next? And while you may not have used high-level coordination (ala PC matches), I would bet you were on mic and occasionally mentioned where you were going, or if you just saw an ADS and were gonna take it out, or that there was a cloaked scout around Alpha, etc. All in a casual, fun, joking manner, but exchanging information nevertheless. These are all factors which new and solo players cannot depend on, nor could most players randomly squadded together via Pub Squads. A randomization factor on the timing of being picked individually for a battle, combined with total elimination of comms, would greatly reduce the chances of 6 top notch players repeatedly getting in the same matches together and any (even casual) exchange of tactical information. I donGÇÖt mean to argue, and I do appreciate your different perspective. Sincere respect. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10676	Posted - 2015.01.05 19:23:00 - [14] - Quote A powerful alternative is to borrow a few things from Eve Online. So far, Eve has a very intuitive UI that provides all the tools needed for a fresh new player to survive the wild west we call New Eden. Let's look at a few examples that might be applicable to Dust 514. This will definitely require an overhaul of the UI and other changes which means a massive update. 1. The Sensor Overlay http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/sensor-overlay-2.0-bigger-better-bookmarks-in-spacier/ This can be used to guide new players to their objectives and other things. The orders given by their squad leaders can make good use of this feature as well. After all, our dropsuits have a built-in HUD so we should at least take full advantage of that. I remember CCP MC Peanut taking interest in this back when the Project Legion forums was active with Devs. 2. Interbus Ship Identification System (ISIS) http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-interbus-ship-identification-system/ This has vastly helped a lot of players get an idea on what each ship can do, is meant to do, what modules are recommended, skilled required, and how they stand in relation to other ships. This same system can be adapted for dropsuits and vehicles in Dust as well. Imagine how easier it would be for a New Player to understand the game with this system in place. No more having to scour all over the forums full of trolls for help. 3. New Player Resources http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/rookie-resources/ This will be the most important part of Dust 514 in regards to helping New Players. When these people come in for the first time, they will have a ton of questions and the first natural thing to do is either look for a common help chat channel or read through a bunch of tutorials (hopefully intuitive ones). On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 174	Posted - 2015.01.05 19:29:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: A powerful alternative is to borrow a few things from Eve Online. So far, Eve has a very intuitive UI that provides all the tools needed for a fresh new player to survive the wild west we call New Eden. Let's look at a few examples that might be applicable to Dust 514. This will definitely require an overhaul of the UI and other changes which means a massive update. ... This will be the most important part of Dust 514 in regards to helping New Players. When these people come in for the first time, they will have a ton of questions and the first natural thing to do is either look for a common help chat channel or read through a bunch of tutorials (hopefully intuitive ones). Rather than an alternative, I see these as an awesome First or Additional or Simultaneous method of improving NPE. Fully Support. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10677	Posted - 2015.01.05 19:32:00 - [16] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Having said that SP is still the best way to group players for balance. The problem with Skill Points is that it's not a reliable way of determining skills. There are players out there that create a new character, turn on passive training, and then forget about it for maybe a whole year or two. When they come back to finally try out Dust again, they will have a decently-skilled character waiting for them but they won't have any of the in-game experience that a devoted player has. A similar case is happening in Eve Online where you see New Players buying skilled-up characters for ISK in the Character Bazaar. Of course, the billions of ISK is usually first acquired with purchasing PLEX from CCP with cash and then selling the PLEX for ISK in the secondary market. The ISK is then used to purchase the character. This has enabled New Players with a big credit card to be able to get Titan Pilot characters only to see them get wrecked because they don't know how to ******* pilot a Titan. http://www.themittani.com/news/alod-daddy-can-i-have-titan On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Sinboto Simmons Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 7343	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:56:00 - [17] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: Having said that SP is still the best way to group players for balance. The problem with Skill Points is that it's not a reliable way of determining skills. There are players out there that create a new character, turn on passive training, and then forget about it for maybe a whole year or two. When they come back to finally try out Dust again, they will have a decently-skilled character waiting for them but they won't have any of the in-game experience that a devoted player has. A similar case is happening in Eve Online where you see New Players buying skilled-up characters for ISK in the Character Bazaar. Of course, the billions of ISK is usually first acquired with purchasing PLEX from CCP with cash and then selling the PLEX for ISK in the secondary market. The ISK is then used to purchase the character. This has enabled New Players with a big credit card to be able to get Titan Pilot characters only to see them get wrecked because they don't know how to ******* pilot a Titan. http://www.themittani.com/news/alod-daddy-can-i-have-titan Agreed, and while I do believe in learning from past mistakes, this would only be a partial solution. Personally I'd like to see many of the ideas here implemented, but if done in haste and incorrectly it could do far more harm than good. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe


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