DUST Search - On vehicles

True Adamance wrote:

Quasar Storm wrote:

The problem with vehicles, Is that there really has never been a true discussion that doesn't end up going the complete wrong way. Kind of like the way this post is turning out. Speaker does say some important things in his OP. He is expressing his opinions based on what he sees, experiences & shares with others. So, Of course, What he says will be tailored to his experiences.

You should all focus on the core of the issue: Vehicles being sub-par.

Not the physics of the game. Not whether or not Speaker has his lore right. Not past nerfs.

What can be done now? I will say vehicles have had their fair share of nerfs. So, No more nerfs.
I know the LRG Turrets need work before CCP decides to release our old tanks.

Also, People need to remember, The AV vehicles face now are going to be OP due to the fact all the vehicles only have up to STD hulls. That's PRO Tier Vs. STD Tier. So, Of course it isn't going to be easy anyways.

I do think ADSs got WAYYYY too much of a nerf. I think the afterburner is the only thing CCP should have nerfed. The turrets skill stacking, To me, Wasn't that big of a deal because the pilots who could do that were incredibly small in the community. Plus, To even effectively stack in the first place both the pilot & gunner had to have millions of SP specialized into Cal ADS/Gal ADS skills & small turret skills. Even if stacking was a major concern, CCP should have removed just the stacking & not nerf the RoF for the pilot.

Shields still need work. Collisions & uneven terrain can remove your shields almost better than AV. I still think every Caldari vehicle should get more passive resistances to Caldari Rails, Because its Caldari tech. I mean, Duh. Come on. Same should go for the Gallante & their blaster tech. But, I suppose this will have to wait until CCP reintroduce the Gal rail & whatnot.

Tanks. Okay, I can make fits to take on AV, But they suck Vs. other tanks. I can make Destroyers which are spiked. Sponge tanks. I can make tanks that have two mini cannons plus one LRG PRO Turret. That's basically it for fits.
It does feel like AV is overpowered, But I really feel like its cause I'm in a STD Hull while I'm being swarmed by PRO AV.
Now, If this continues when I get my Sagaris rollin', Then there will be a problem.

The only major issue I could even think that is broken, Is Jihads. I mean that crap can cause your Ps3 to freeze. Not cool.

For LAVs, I mean, I don't use them very much. Would like to see LLAVs about giving support to other tanks, But I feel like there just isn't enough players in one game to do that. It takes one noob army to compete against 1 squad of organized effort. So, I think the more I see them in pubs, The more chances our team has at losing if the other team has good players.

I miss my Eryx. :( & my Sagaris.... :(((((

Traditionally you do not make a technology that is designed to protect against your own weaponry..... you make one to protect yourself against your enemies technology.

Regardless he does say some valuable things even if a few are coloured by the bitterness of an old vet....but what both of you need to remember most of all is that any prospective vehicles we may have reintroduced must be balanced around the current PRO AV, and currently at this time there are some very obvious issues with the interplay between the two.

- Shield HAV are statistically superior in every respect to armour HAV
- Shield Hardeners are 15% more efficient than Armour Hardeners for no good reason, allowing for stacking abuse.
- Shield Passive Regeneration if far too effective for not having to fit a module allowing Shield HAV to fully regen in a matter of 20-30 seconds.
- Lack of Modules
- Explosive and Kinetic Heavy AV meta renders Armour HAV ineffective but means Shield HAV can ignore lesser AV.
- Fitting disparities between Shield and Armour HAV
- Shield HAV @ MLT and STD level have too much potential eHP for their tier.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 709	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:54:00 - [1] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: The problem with vehicles, Is that there really has never been a true discussion that doesn't end up going the complete wrong way. Kind of like the way this post is turning out. Speaker does say some important things in his OP. He is expressing his opinions based on what he sees, experiences & shares with others. So, Of course, What he says will be tailored to his experiences. You should all focus on the core of the issue: Vehicles being sub-par. Not the physics of the game. Not whether or not Speaker has his lore right. Not past nerfs. What can be done now? I will say vehicles have had their fair share of nerfs. So, No more nerfs. I know the LRG Turrets need work before CCP decides to release our old tanks. Also, People need to remember, The AV vehicles face now are going to be OP due to the fact all the vehicles only have up to STD hulls. That's PRO Tier Vs. STD Tier. So, Of course it isn't going to be easy anyways. I do think ADSs got WAYYYY too much of a nerf. I think the afterburner is the only thing CCP should have nerfed. The turrets skill stacking, To me, Wasn't that big of a deal because the pilots who could do that were incredibly small in the community. Plus, To even effectively stack in the first place both the pilot & gunner had to have millions of SP specialized into Cal ADS/Gal ADS skills & small turret skills. Even if stacking was a major concern, CCP should have removed just the stacking & not nerf the RoF for the pilot. Shields still need work. Collisions & uneven terrain can remove your shields almost better than AV. I still think every Caldari vehicle should get more passive resistances to Caldari Rails, Because its Caldari tech. I mean, Duh. Come on. Same should go for the Gallante & their blaster tech. But, I suppose this will have to wait until CCP reintroduce the Gal rail & whatnot. Tanks. Okay, I can make fits to take on AV, But they suck Vs. other tanks. I can make Destroyers which are spiked. Sponge tanks. I can make tanks that have two mini cannons plus one LRG PRO Turret. That's basically it for fits. It does feel like AV is overpowered, But I really feel like its cause I'm in a STD Hull while I'm being swarmed by PRO AV. Now, If this continues when I get my Sagaris rollin', Then there will be a problem. The only major issue I could even think that is broken, Is Jihads. I mean that crap can cause your Ps3 to freeze. Not cool. For LAVs, I mean, I don't use them very much. Would like to see LLAVs about giving support to other tanks, But I feel like there just isn't enough players in one game to do that. It takes one noob army to compete against 1 squad of organized effort. So, I think the more I see them in pubs, The more chances our team has at losing if the other team has good players. I miss my Eryx. :( & my Sagaris.... :((((( Traditionally you do not make a technology that is designed to protect against your own weaponry..... you make one to protect yourself against your enemies technology. Regardless he does say some valuable things even if a few are coloured by the bitterness of an old vet....but what both of you need to remember most of all is that any prospective vehicles we may have reintroduced must be balanced around the current PRO AV, and currently at this time there are some very obvious issues with the interplay between the two. - Shield HAV are statistically superior in every respect to armour HAV - Shield Hardeners are 15% more efficient than Armour Hardeners for no good reason, allowing for stacking abuse. - Shield Passive Regeneration if far too effective for not having to fit a module allowing Shield HAV to fully regen in a matter of 20-30 seconds. - Lack of Modules - Explosive and Kinetic Heavy AV meta renders Armour HAV ineffective but means Shield HAV can ignore lesser AV. - Fitting disparities between Shield and Armour HAV - Shield HAV @ MLT and STD level have too much potential eHP for their tier. You should add to that although armour tanks have a theoretical higher top speed, the shield vehicle ability to accelerate faster and turn far outshine whatever the armor tank may due if it was in a drag race lol. I have a feeling that spkr doesn't use shield tanks, because right now I just slap regenerators on to sicas and push with the infantry. I get popped by proto tanks but my tanks cost a tenth or less then that proto tank it took to pop me with a proto rail gun and damage mods. If I could complain about anything right now, it's the fact that I don't see why anyone would skill into vehicles. I can make militia fitted vehicles that can generally avoid proto AV as long as I don't over extend. And if three guys suprise me, well it was a cheap ass tank anyways. Same goes for my 40k vipers that I can use as transports and air support with a buddy. They blow it up... that's okay it was 40k... What I think actual vehicles players should be asking for is a reduction in cost to adv/pro modules and turrets that's what really makes current vehicle play unviable. They are quite effective when used properly just stupid expensive if you use your sp skills to fit em.