DUST Search - The AR Should be Better[in CQC]!

sir RAVEN WING wrote:

DeadlyAztec11 wrote:

sir RAVEN WING wrote:

Now I think you are forgeting to use sense.

If I came kill a Ak.0 Sent before he can kill my assault with his bullet hose HMG I think there is something very wrong. I think the breach variant should receive a damage nerf, not a huge one, but rather about 7% or so.

Seven percent what? Damage? Range? Rate of fire?

Also many weapons like the Shotgun, Plasma Cannon, Combat Rifle, Ion Pistol, SMG, Magsec, Scrambler Rifle and Assault Rail Rifle can all compete against Sentinels comfortably.

I said it in the post, I said a damage nerf.

Shotgun, yes it is a high damage weapon, perhaps too high.

Plasma Cannon, again it is high damage.

Combat Rife, Yes from my experience the Six Kin Assault Combat RIfle.

Ion Pistol, yes very good sidearm.

SMG, good against heavies, yes it is.

Magsec... good joke, damn thing can hardly kill an assault.

Scrambler Rifle, yes I think this is a little too strong.

ARR... My Ishokone Assault Rail Rifle does okay against them.

One thing the BrAR has over all of these (bar the SG) is that it can do so easily at ADV level without help. Just stop defending it, it is far too strong. It is to the point to where if the whole enemy team is in a room I can clear them with a GB-9 BrAR without trouble, and yes I have done this before.

Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.


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DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6379	Posted - 2014.12.14 03:59:00 - [1] - Quote As it stands it is rather mediocre. It will kill but it doesn't do anything better than any of the other Assault variants and is basically on par with both the SMG and MagSec SMG in its effective range. Not to mention that that the Rail Rifle is particularly strong in CQC for a weapon that has its effective range set to that of a designated marksman. What should then be done? *We should first establish what not* to do.** -We should not purpose a range increase: The AR is a CQC oriented weapon. It is meant to dominate in this area. By increasing range the AR would be dangerously close to competing in the effective range of the Combat Rifle(which is already on par with the AR in CQC with the ACR being arguably better). -We should not buff the AR without taking measures to make sure it is not unbalanced The AR shares its range with many other weapons and needs to dominate that range, but to a fair amount. Of course weapons like the Shotgun and Nova Knives will always be better in a close encounter an AR should still be able to put up a better fight than any other rifle or SMG in close ranges. Proposal: -Buffs I propose that the AR's damage be increased substantially within 25m and moderately from 25m to 40m. -Nerfs Decrease effective range and increase recoil. So as to help negate the AR's power at range. -Buff/Nerf Decrease dispersionso as to be better than the Assault Scrambler Rifle's(which currently has an amazingly good field of dispersion). This wouldmake it easier to handle off the hip in CQC while helping to keep it from being a shotgun of sorts that requires no aiming in close quarters. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6380	Posted - 2014.12.14 04:11:00 - [2] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: If I hear another person say Rail Rifles are to strong still I swear to god I will use my powerful weapon and shoot everything at 70 Meters but what I'm aiming at. Your lack of recoil compensation with a ranged weapon is disturbing. I suspect you are most likely over compensating or not nearly compensating enough. Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: And the AR is fine as is. It has near no recoil and the dispersion can be lowered by using Assault suits. It is true that it can be increased, but the Assault variants of the other rifles still either out perform or stand on par with it. This should not be. Furthermore, the ASCR in particular has much better dispersion despite the bonus of the Gallente Assault to the AR. This simply means that the AR must be rebalanced to be the champion of its range. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6382	Posted - 2014.12.14 04:39:00 - [3] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: The Bolt Pistol is better at long range then the Rail Rifle is. That has nothing to do with your recoil management. Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: And the AR is fine as is. It has near no recoil and the dispersion can be lowered by using Assault suits. It is true that it can be increased, but the Assault variants of the other rifles still either out perform or stand on par with it. This should not be. Furthermore, the ASCR in particular has much better dispersion despite the bonus of the Gallente Assault to the AR. This simply means that the AR must be rebalanced to be the champion of its range. If you want CQC you don't need anything other then a big clip and fast rate of fire which means people need to give up their love affair with the Breach. And it also explains why the few scouts (like 5) that don't run Nova Knives or RE use the Assault Combat Rifle. If I wanted a bullet hose I would just ask for the AR to be a faster firing Assault SMG. The Breach AR is fine where it is and if it is nerfed then all variants of every weapon should in turn be nerfed for being even the slightest bit effective. The BAR actually gives users a similar KD to other weapons so it is not OP in that respect. The main reason it is used so often is because it is currently much better than the standard AR as the standars AR is very subpar. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6383	Posted - 2014.12.14 04:50:00 - [4] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: I like this, but there is only one problem. Maps are CQC. This means the AR would dominate and be deemed OP by the forums, incoming nerf and no one wants that. Here are the problems with your proposal. 25m to 40m - I say 25m to 35m. That 5m makes a difference. Decrease recoil - You mean the basically nonexistent recoil? It barely moves after a whole mag. I last tested first day of 1.9. The rest is just fine. I can get kills with a AR, but it feels like it's exceeding other weapons like the RR and CR. ARR and ACR compared to the assault rifle? I can't really do that due to the fact that I don't have enough SP to put into AR (I have it at 4, but like to use proto weapons when comparing) I actually proposed that recoil be increased in my original post. I don't understand how you believe the AR is exceeding the RR and CR. Also, maps are not all CQC. It depends on the weapons you use and how you use them. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6383	Posted - 2014.12.14 04:54:00 - [5] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Now I think you are forgeting to use sense. If I came kill a Ak.0 Sent before he can kill my assault with his bullet hose HMG I think there is something very wrong. I think the breach variant should receive a damage nerf, not a huge one, but rather about 7% or so. Seven percent what? Damage? Range? Rate of fire? Also many weapons like the Shotgun, Plasma Cannon, Combat Rifle, Ion Pistol, SMG, Magsec, Scrambler Rifle and Assault Rail Rifle can all compete against Sentinels comfortably. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6383	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:24:00 - [6] - Quote Union118 wrote: Zindorak wrote: yas acr does as good if not better in cqc Why? It has a scope Combat Rifles need a dmg nerf. If a basic Combat Rifle can kill me before my proto weapon then something is miss calculated. Any weapon with a scope needs to set like the rail rifle good for long distance not cqc. All assault weapons need greater dmg out put or something. If my assault rail comes up against a combat rifle I should be dropping that person hands down. The only problem with the combat rifle is its ultimate purpose since it does well in cqc. As for the AR once over used now under used this was thee weapon and it still should be but since so many weapons do more dmg at cqc that the AR hardly anyone uses it. So here is my idea. Since most weapons have a assault version it needs to do less dmg but high RoF and the others do more dmg but only a third of RoF. Long distance weapons dont need to be used for cqc. Actually, the Combat Rifle is suppose to be moderately effective at close ranges. Here is the table of effective ranges by race. Gallente: Close Range Minmatar: Close to mid range Amarr: Mid to long range Caldari: Long Range The scope of the Combat Rifle simply helps acknowledge that it is not only a close range weapon but retains some ability at range. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6383	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:35:00 - [7] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: Now I think you are forgeting to use sense. If I came kill a Ak.0 Sent before he can kill my assault with his bullet hose HMG I think there is something very wrong. I think the breach variant should receive a damage nerf, not a huge one, but rather about 7% or so. Seven percent what? Damage? Range? Rate of fire? Also many weapons like the Shotgun, Plasma Cannon, Combat Rifle, Ion Pistol, SMG, Magsec, Scrambler Rifle and Assault Rail Rifle can all compete against Sentinels comfortably. I said it in the post, I said a damage nerf. Shotgun, yes it is a high damage weapon, perhaps too high. Plasma Cannon, again it is high damage. Combat Rife, Yes from my experience the Six Kin Assault Combat RIfle. Ion Pistol, yes very good sidearm. SMG, good against heavies, yes it is. Magsec... good joke, damn thing can hardly kill an assault. Scrambler Rifle, yes I think this is a little too strong. ARR... My Ishokone Assault Rail Rifle does okay against them. One thing the BrAR has over all of these (bar the SG) is that it can do so easily at ADV level without help. Just stop defending it, it is far too strong. It is to the point to where if the whole enemy team is in a room I can clear them with a GB-9 BrAR without trouble, and yes I have done this before. Damage, ah yes. It seems my reading comprehension has failed once more, oh well. I personally find that I never need to use weapons higher than advanced. Currently I can comfortably fight proto suits with no more than my advanced Combat Rifle and Flaylock. So I disagree that the Breach AR has this unique trait. I'am curious though, what is your opinion of the Tactical Assault Rifle? In my opinion it is much more potent than the Breach AR at both close and long ranges acting like a Scrambler Rifle but without the fear of over heating. It's an under used weapon yet according to CCP TAR users get similar scores to BAR users. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6383	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:40:00 - [8] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: The breach AR is a better Rail Rifle than the rail rifle. Why? Simply because it has perfect handling, like all the other AR's. The AR has a good damage profile, great magazine size/continuous firing time, highest full auto DPS, the TAR has the highest semi-auto DPS, virtually no kick, and with a Gal assault, the hip fire is insane. All this in exchange for 10 meters less range than a combat rifle. I don't understand people complaining about it. Im fairly certain that the breach is currently the most used rifle in PC, and once it gets nerfed, the regular AR will follow suit. Yet, even if all of that were true (and I believe most of that consists of gross exaggerations) the RR is still by far better at long range. Which is where it shines. I believe that the disparity of RR to BAR usage is due to people preferring to engage in close quarters to long range. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6385	Posted - 2014.12.14 06:51:00 - [9] - Quote Joel II X wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: sir RAVEN WING wrote: Now I think you are forgeting to use sense. If I came kill a Ak.0 Sent before he can kill my assault with his bullet hose HMG I think there is something very wrong. I think the breach variant should receive a damage nerf, not a huge one, but rather about 7% or so. Seven percent what? Damage? Range? Rate of fire? Also many weapons like the Shotgun, Plasma Cannon, Combat Rifle, Ion Pistol, SMG, Magsec, Scrambler Rifle and Assault Rail Rifle can all compete against Sentinels comfortably. Ion Pistol competing well against sentinels? Lol you've just lost all credibility. Best chance you've got with that thing is going up against a Caldari Sentinel, and surprising him with a charged headshot, but he WILL have health left over enough for about two more charged body shots, and by then, you'd be swiss cheese by his HMG. The best method to use when engaging a fully charged Sentinel with an Ion Pistol, is to feather the trigger before overheating, while trying attempting head shots and then finishing them off with a powerful charged blast. In all honesty though, the Ion Pistol works best as a finisher and as an anti scout weapon. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6385	Posted - 2014.12.14 06:52:00 - [10] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: You obviously have not lived during the reign of the ungodly AR. You make me sick. It tore through drop suits faster than chipotle chicken. Never utter the words you uttered. I have been around since Chromosome. I'am against the revenge strategy of nerfing and buffing. It is quite baseless. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6385	Posted - 2014.12.14 07:08:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: As it stands it is rather mediocre. It will kill but it doesn't do anything better than any of the other Assault variants and is basically on par with both the SMG and MagSec SMG in its effective range. Not sure if exaggerating to prove a point or actually that bad. The AR has a higher DPS than both the MSMG and SMG, while also having better range, recoil, and dispersion. In the case of the SMG, it also has the benefit of a more balanced Profile making it better against diverse enemies As a guy who has had both the AR and SMG to level V before the battle of Caldari Prime let me just say that the SMG has always been superior to the AR in CQC if not on paper but definitely in practice. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6399	Posted - 2014.12.14 14:41:00 - [12] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I like the idea of improving the AR's performance up close -- but without much difference in its current range. All the other rifles have assault variants that aren't far behind as it is now, giving it no real niche. Liked. Thank you. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6410	Posted - 2014.12.15 05:23:00 - [13] - Quote The Ion Pistol is indeed a very potent weapon. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.