DUST Search - Module Discussion Return of the 180mm Reinforced Armour Plate

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas.

I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon!
Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them.

I have no idea what this has to do with 180mm plates...

Reread the OP and you'll discover that this thread is just as much about Shield Vehicle superiority as it so about 180mm plates. In fact Shield Vehicle superiority is the issue that True is trying to address.
Im just proposing another solution.

On the contrary, imbalance issues have nothing to do with AV. If you look at the raw numbers between a shield HAV and an armor HAV, the Shield HAV is superior is several ways. a 180mm plate would push armor to be superior eHP while the shield HAV would maintain its superior regen rate. AV has nothing to do with it, its a direct comparison between Shield vehicles and Armor vehicles.

*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15789	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:07:00 - [1] - Quote Currently Armour vehicle suffer greatly against AV under the current meta. This is feel is partially for several core reasons. - The first is simply not enough fitting space/ capacity meaning than an Armour HAV will not be able to fit enough modules of a high enough tier to remain a competitive fit or threat on the battlefield. - The Madrugar and Soma require a module slot to fit even a Passive Armour Repair Value unlike Shield Vehicles which do not and receive in almost every instant a greater passive shield regen than a Heavy Armour Repairer could provide on a per second basis. - Not enough incentive to fit Armour plates in an Explosive/Kinetic AV meta. - A Hardener than is 15% less effective than its shield counter part. One possible fix I see for armour Vehicles especially HAV, and I'll admit now I am an unashamed Tanker, would be the reintroduction of the 180mm Reinforced Armour plate alonside PG and CPU adjustments. While I do not have the older Plate values off hand I have looked into the modules on a variety of fits via media and through personal memory and as such would appreciate you all to consider this in your review of this suggestion. Moreover if anyone has the hard data for the old plates please supply it and I will add it to the OP. I suggest and reintroduction of the following Modules 180mm Reinforced Nanofibre Armour Plates Amour: + 2146 Mobility Penalties: 11% 180mm Reinforced Rolled Steel Armour Plates Armour: +2448 Mobility Penalties: 13% 180mm Reinforced Polycrystalline Armour Plates Armour: 2750 Mobility Penalties: 15% Per tier there is a 2% increase to the mobility penalties and a 302 armour increase/decrease. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2549	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:19:00 - [2] - Quote Agree. There needs to be some variations back in vehicles. Buffer tanking used to actually be a thing in times like chrome. There so many other things that need to return aswell, but one step at a time. Winmatar? 3 systems left
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15865	Posted - 2014.12.14 09:36:00 - [3] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Agree. There needs to be some variations back in vehicles. Buffer tanking used to actually be a thing in times like chrome. There so many other things that need to return aswell, but one step at a time. Indeed this would certainly allow armour tanks to have a fair and usable buffer. If used in conjunction with Active Armour repairs I feel the Madrugar has a real place on the battlefield. Of course fitting the 180mm would have to be made rather difficult so as it is not abused but I would like to think the option for heavier plating is available or the option to choose a lighter plating to fit better utility or repair modules is there. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 241	Posted - 2014.12.14 11:00:00 - [4] - Quote OMG i would love to fit one of those in my Grimsnes. I currently have an Enhanced 120mm squeezed in there Pffft....... Proto Suits lol Adv Omni Merc is the way to go
Dauth Jenkins Titans of Phoenix 612	Posted - 2014.12.14 18:42:00 - [5] - Quote SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote: OMG i would love to fit one of those in my Grimsnes. I currently have an Enhanced 120mm squeezed in there if you can barely fit a 120, your never going to fit a180. I Like the idea of returning 180 plates, but i feel like they should be introduced along with Active Reps. also, is this hotfixable? All you need to do is copy the 120 plates and give them new stats, right? -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15869	Posted - 2014.12.14 19:00:00 - [6] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote: OMG i would love to fit one of those in my Grimsnes. I currently have an Enhanced 120mm squeezed in there if you can barely fit a 120, your never going to fit a180. I Like the idea of returning 180 plates, but i feel like they should be introduced along with Active Reps. also, is this hotfixable? All you need to do is copy the 120 plates and give them new stats, right? Mmmmm that's my point. You could fit a 180mm on a dropship but you would not be able to fit heavy active reps, or strong active modules. Consequently you could opt for the 120mm having less protection but more access to the right tools that will keep you alive. Or you opt for a 60mm plate and can fit very powerful active modules. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:58:00 - [7] - Quote Up for developer consideration. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4029	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:16:00 - [8] - Quote If memory serves, the 180mm HP values were just 50% greater than 120mm yeah? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1386	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:18:00 - [9] - Quote Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas. I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon! Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4029	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:24:00 - [10] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas. I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon! Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them. I have no idea what this has to do with 180mm plates... "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:40:00 - [11] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas. I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon! Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them. That's partially true and at the same time wholly untrue. Regardless your suggestion has nothing to do with armour plates. You have your own thread, please do not muddy the waters here. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1386	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:42:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas. I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon! Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them. I have no idea what this has to do with 180mm plates... Reread the OP and you'll discover that this thread is just as much about Shield Vehicle superiority as it so about 180mm plates. In fact Shield Vehicle superiority is the issue that True is trying to address. Im just proposing another solution. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4030	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:45:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas. I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon! Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them. I have no idea what this has to do with 180mm plates... Reread the OP and you'll discover that this thread is just as much about Shield Vehicle superiority as it so about 180mm plates. In fact Shield Vehicle superiority is the issue that True is trying to address. Im just proposing another solution. On the contrary, imbalance issues have nothing to do with AV. If you look at the raw numbers between a shield HAV and an armor HAV, the Shield HAV is superior is several ways. a 180mm plate would push armor to be superior eHP while the shield HAV would maintain its superior regen rate. AV has nothing to do with it, its a direct comparison between Shield vehicles and Armor vehicles. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:54:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Part of the reason Shield Vehicles are so much better right now is that there isn't an Amarrian AV weapon, and Plasma Cannons are still not that good against vehicles, especially Dropships, but also HAVs, even Gunnlogis and Sicas. I say we make a Breach Plasma Cannon! Give it the same projectile velocity stats as they used to have, but make it do 2500-3000 direct damage. I honestly just want a Cannon that has the old velocity stats because those were the stats I liked the most, but I think it would be fair to give it a hefty Damage boost in exchange for them. I have no idea what this has to do with 180mm plates... Reread the OP and you'll discover that this thread is just as much about Shield Vehicle superiority as it so about 180mm plates. In fact Shield Vehicle superiority is the issue that True is trying to address. Im just proposing another solution. On the contrary, imbalance issues have nothing to do with AV. If you look at the raw numbers between a shield HAV and an armor HAV, the Shield HAV is superior is several ways. a 180mm plate would push armor to be superior eHP while the shield HAV would maintain its superior regen rate. AV has nothing to do with it, its a direct comparison between Shield vehicles and Armor vehicles. As you say. Part of the imbalance is due to the lack of parity in terms of AV damage models. But excluding that entirely in a 1v1 Tank fight the Shield variant is wholly superior in almost every manner. E.G- There are two standard Gunnlogi fits. 1 Complex Extender 2x Hardeners This yields 3975 Shields and an active damage reduction of roughly 75%. eHP = 6956.25 plus armour (which is likely tanked to around 2950 with an ADV plate) Total eHP = 9906.25 The other is.... 2x Extenders 1x Hardeners This yields 5300 Shields and 40% active damage resistance. eHP = 7120 Shields plus Armour (which is likely tanked to around 2950 with ADV plates) Total eHP = 10,070 A Madrugar if lucky might have a tank of 6.3- 7.3K eHP and that fit is still inferior in most respects including regenerative capacity, damage resistance, fitting capacity, etc. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4030	Posted - 2014.12.17 22:09:00 - [15] - Quote Assuming my math is correct (which is dubious depending on the hour) a purely shield tanked Gunnlogi will have 13% less eHP on average than a Madrugar but will recover it 35% faster. If the shield vehicle fits armor plates (which I would like to stop the practice of) its eHP will tend to exceed that of the Madrugar. That aside, I'm fine with the Shield HAV recovering its eHP 35% faster, but if that's the case, the difference in eHP should be closer to 35% as well. Conversely you could reduce the shield's eHP to around a 35% difference or reduce its regen rate to a difference of 13%, but I think that's less preferable. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

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