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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15709
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Posted - 2014.12.10 23:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ew God no. Have you even worked out those EHP values?
20% more armour and 20% armour resistances per level? On a 5885 Hull?
Thats
5885 *1.2 = 7062
modified again by 20%
7062 * 1.2 = 8474.4
then inclusive of Shields
8474.4 + 1700 = 10174 eHP
This before any armour plates, armour resistance modules, or repair modules have even been added is utterly broken beyond all belief and would require and entire team of players to actually remove from the field.
On a Sagaris.....
3975 *1.2 = 4770
4770 *1.2 = 5724
5724 + 1700 = 7424 (too big a difference between the two HAV)
Worst case scenario I can work out is a fit that may or may not be able to achieve 17,000 eHP......
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15709
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ew God no. Have you even worked out those EHP values?
20% more armour and 20% armour resistances per level? On a 5885 Hull?
Before modules are even included I estimate it at 10174 eHP
This before any armour plates, armour resistance modules, or repair modules have even been added is utterly broken beyond all belief and would require and entire team of players to actually remove from the field.
Worst case scenario for the Sagaris I can work out is a fit that may or may not be able to achieve 17,000 eHP...... and retains its 168 per second shield regen speed. Reduced EHP by a lot. Thinking of reducing the skill but I don't want skill to be sh*tty.
Not trying to be antagonistic but that still achieves roughly 8-9 K eHP before any modules are fitted....with 5 slots for fitting and no obvious downsides.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15711
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fortunately those skills are really taste fully done.
Hardener extensions only amount to several seconds 2-3 max but enough, while the cool down lowering skills mean you are cycling your mods more often.
Repper modules gain one extra rep cycle due to the skills, and also cycle more often.
All you need to do is settle on what negative modifiers you are going to give marauders? Speed/Acceleration is a given but I know you were thinking of another.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15712
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ew God no. Have you even worked out those EHP values?
20% more armour and 20% armour resistances per level? On a 5885 Hull?
Before modules are even included I estimate it at 10174 eHP
This before any armour plates, armour resistance modules, or repair modules have even been added is utterly broken beyond all belief and would require and entire team of players to actually remove from the field.
Worst case scenario for the Sagaris I can work out is a fit that may or may not be able to achieve 17,000 eHP...... and retains its 168 per second shield regen speed. Reduced EHP by a lot. Thinking of reducing the skill but I don't want skill to be sh*tty. Not trying to be antagonistic but that still achieves roughly 8-9 K eHP before any modules are fitted....with 5 slots for fitting and no obvious downsides. Whate is suppose to have?, like 20% more HP than a standard HAV, my gunnlogi with 5300 shield and a hardener can reach 9000 hp.
Which arguably is a little too much for a standard tank.
Most of my suggestions cap at maximum static eHP (aka passive tanks) possible around 10-11K for Marauders. Between 8-8.5 on Standard HAV, and lesser values on Militia tanks.
Rep tanks will of course have significantly less by will be able to crisis manage their HP values more effectively.
Think of it like this. A passive tank is a brick you throw through the window of a gang hide out. It pisses them off and takes them a while to realise how to get rid of it.
A rep tank is like that perfect mince pie you heat up in the micro wave. If you don't pay attention you'll over cook that sucker and the meat will he hard and chewy, too little and its cold and disgusting, but if you keep an eye on that micro wave that pie is going to taste sooooooooo good.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15714
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Posted - 2014.12.11 00:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Fortunately those skills are really taste fully done. Hardener extensions only amount to several seconds 2-3 max but enough, while the cool down lowering skills mean you are cycling your mods more often. Repper modules gain one extra rep cycle due to the skills, and also cycle more often. All you need to do is settle on what negative modifiers you are going to give marauders? Speed/Acceleration is a given but I know you were thinking of another. Id like to inhibit their turret effectiveness somehow, particularly to avoid redline Marauders being uncrackable and sniping from afar. Marauders should really be tanky, large utility platforms with some Anti personnel ability but noticeably lacking in the effectiveness with large turrets to set them apart from Enforcers and standard HAVs. Think like how a Logi lacks a sidearm...though I dont want to hack off the large turret entirely nor do I particularly like negative damage bonuses....it's a pain in the ass. A heavy frame vs sentinel. The Sentinel gains resistances with no loss to efficiency of HMG.
But it also gains no benefits to the HMG.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15742
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Posted - 2014.12.11 21:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:I'd like to see basic vehicles feel like they have some generalist use over specialty vehicles, rather than specialty vehicles being better in every way. That's probably not going to happen other than the fact people want to run throw away fits. It's the same with infantry, basic medium/light/heavy frames are so trash compared to their specialized ones. Sad but true. I wish that would change.
Ever since Catmerc introduced me to competitive CS:GO gameplay I always think about fights in terms of the economy.
How much does this cost me, How much will winning cost him, what are the chances of winning, etc.
I think it will be very interesting to see how people play "Eco-Tanks" Low cost HAV designed to be used to take our superior cost fits. Kind of like my Particle Cannon Sica or 3 man 4.5K DPS Missile tanks.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15743
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ew God no. Have you even worked out those EHP values?
20% more armour and 20% armour resistances per level? On a 5885 Hull?
Thats
5885 *1.2 = 7062
modified again by 20%
7062 * 1.2 = 8474.4
then inclusive of Shields
8474.4 + 1700 = 10174 eHP
This before any armour plates, armour resistance modules, or repair modules have even been added is utterly broken beyond all belief and would require and entire team of players to actually remove from the field.
On a Sagaris.....
3975 *1.2 = 4770
4770 *1.2 = 5724
5724 + 1700 = 7424 (too big a difference between the two HAV)
Worst case scenario I can work out is a fit that may or may not be able to achieve 17,000 eHP......
Pretty much.... Talking about Marauders is great, but slapping on arbitrary amounts of slots and bonuses without looking at the big picture is going quickly detonate into a fiasco. Plus 17,000 eHP would be....completely unkillable by any means other than another HAV which is just....not good. And as usual, wanting balance for pub matches, instead of faction warfare, which is the bread and butter of this game. Your telling me that a 17,000 ehp tank would be balanced for factional? Dont see your logic here, you want the game balanced around factional when this tank would be overpowered no matter what game mode your playing.
As usual yup..... that Shield HAV is almost twice the eHP of my current one not only has a standard 20% resistance vs Explosive AV and 10% vs Kinetic..... but also further 20% against both, and another 40% when using my Hardeners.
Now that 17,000 eHP fit in only with one hardener...... I've haven't even worked out how invincible multiple hardeners would be,
This by no means is balanced. Since there is no means to detonate our ammunition stores, kill us inside the vehicles through over penetration, or eWar us into submissions his orginal suggestion would have been akin to throwing a meteor at the battlefield.
Hell our current HAV turrets theoretically will struggle vs 10k eHP tanks let alone 17 or 20 K eHP tanks.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15743
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Hell our current HAV turrets theoretically will struggle vs 10k eHP tanks let alone 17 or 20 K eHP tanks.
It would be like two fat guys trying to kill each other with cotton balls 
Except they have no arms, no cotton balls, and overheat to unconsciousness every 12 seconds.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15745
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Posted - 2014.12.11 22:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:
10k EHP HAV's can't even survive a militia LAV + 120k sp into remotes.
That's and entirely different issue and yes they can.
5 Boundless RE deal 10554 Explosive damage. Considering a Hardened Gunnlogi negates 40% of the damage and resists naturally 20% it could theoretically survive assuming that the LAV impact and explosive damage does not deplete too much shielding.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15759
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Posted - 2014.12.12 00:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:I haven't had time to read all the threads about vehicles or the (metric ****tons of information & opinions presented) but I do have some thoughts overall on vehicles.
LAV's -> These are used far more often than not as taxi's to get from point a to point b. I'd really like to see them used more in an infantry support role, with 'standard' or 'attack' variant LAV's being the type of thing that if someone gets on its turret will *shred* any opposing infantry. The Logi LAV I'd like to see have a wide-area triage nanohive type effect (that's limited in duration) or it can focus the nanite stream to repair armor / shields (depending on vehicle type), this allows it to be played in a much bigger 'support' role, either aiding mass infantry pushes or being able to support other vehicles - it should forgo a turret in order to gain these repair functions.
HAV's -> With LAV's being redesigned to terrorize infantry, a HAV should be the thing that terrorizes LAV's (though a HAV with small turrets on it should certainly be quite scary to infantry as well), I don't have any real proposed changes here.
Marauders -> There's been a lot of proposed bonuses tossed around, but I think a simple bonus of 2% increased resistance value to shield/armor hardeners would be a great place to start. It doesn't really mess around with window of opportunity time, it just makes it so that when you activate your hardeners your 'finest moment' is even more gloriously resistant. I'm really worried about having 15% less speed on them, because I know from experience that when playing older builds it was entirely possible to just get chased around the map by AV teams in LAV's, I would opt for significantly reduced RANGE on marauders (-15% to turret ranges) and maybe slower acceleration, but overall the same top speed, In exchange for the slower acceleration they should have much more torque and ability to turn (so -10% acceleration +10% torque).
But that was part of the fun Mina and you know it!
Anywho the 15% mobility penalties puts the shield HAV just under 40 kmph.....but you make a fair point about armour HAV which will already have another 10-15% modification (though this is mitigated by Armour honey Combing). I do however kind of feel like all HAV accelerate and turn a little too quickly.
RE: Range Suggestion.... large blasters gain no benefits for range as they are as their dispersion is down to luck anyway.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15777
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Posted - 2014.12.12 02:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
10k EHP HAV's can't even survive a militia LAV + 120k sp into remotes.
That's and entirely different issue and yes they can. 5 Boundless RE deal 10554 Explosive damage. Considering a Hardened Gunnlogi negates 40% of the damage and resists naturally 20% it could theoretically survive assuming that the LAV impact and explosive damage does not deplete too much shielding. People put on more than 5 remotes.
Indeed.
I absolutely loathe JLAV. It's the mark of a **** poor AVer or Tanker that's failing so badly at his role than they cannot remove your from the field without resorting to bad gameplay mechanics.
That or your opponent had not AV capacity due to their own poor decisions and again are using bad mechanics that require little imput for significant output.
Even so that's a wholly separate issue from how Marauders should be balanced. Regular AV needs a change, especially at Prototype level.
*"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
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