DUST Search - Is Dust becoming P2W now?

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

Stevez Wingyip wrote:

Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:

A few months back some dev said that they intend Dust to have "one of the fairest microtransactin system" or something along these lines. The focus was that it won't be P2W in any way... but looking at the recent changes I don't think they can accomplish this goal. I mean what have they added recently?

Militia BPOs

Originally intended to be removed form Dust they're now back and more numerous than ever. It seems like every weapon has a Militia BPO now you can only buy with Aurum. In addition to that there are unique Dropsuit BPOs, namely the Quafe suits. Only obtainable by spending Aurum of course. And well, they are free suits and free weapons. Making sure you don't lose anything when dying. They're only standard stuff though, so maybe that's still fine. But just the sheer amount of BPOs becoming available now makes me worry. Heck: It even takes away from the aspect of being careful what you run. And in the past Militia BPOs were limited. You couldn't run everything when you wanted a free fitting. Now that's changing. As running militia stuff is, expecially for FW, the easiest way to stay ISK postitive it really takes away from being careful about what you're running. Low on ISK? No problem. Just run your free fitting the next few matches. What doesn't make it better are...

APEX suits

Fair thing: You can farm them. That is if you play for Minmatar or Gallente. Try farming these on Amarr or Caldari side when only getting ~200 LP every match because they're ALWAYS losing. (that's another matter though) But hey! You can of course spent 30 bucks on these Protosuit BPOs. I mean of course: They're only fitted with standard equipment. Doesn't change though that these suits are completely free and the easiest way to get them - that is if you don't want to farm for a month - is just buying them.

Market Contract

Our beloved stripper in the Captains Quarters. Spend Aurum to get more money from selling stuff. I guess that speaks for itself, doesn't it?

SP Booster

My favorite really. Increased cap for everybody? Fine. But now you can not only boost that cap with active boosters, no. You can ADDITIONALLY boost your already active boosted match SP further with an instant booster. As SP are one of the most important things in the game this reeks of P2W. I mean of course everybody gets them and I was still fine with normal active boosters. But now the additional instant boost? There's a fine line you have to draw when it comes to saving time without being P2W. And I think that point crossed that line.

Strongboxes

Best way to get Officer gear. A relatively grindy / hard daily (sometimes only doable by buying boosters) gives you one key a day. You can of course buy more keys... for Aurum.

Loyalty Ranks

Damn. Have you tried increasing that thing without spending Aurum? And it gives you more of everything. More SP, more Money, more LP. Spending Aurum seems to be the best way to get a higher rank here. Earning warpoints and winning matches seems to do almost nothing. Especially considering how many matches you win when playing FW for Caldari/Amarr.

In the past most of the stuff you had to pay for you could also get by looting in FW and PC. And it wasn't the best gear either and people had to continously pay to support running suits using Aurum gear. That was still fine. But now by spending Aurum you have the best chance of getting Officer gear. You get passive bonuses by spending lots of Aurum. You get gear which isn't used up when you die. The cover of being able to get everything for free anyways by just playing is slowly vanishing, as that's not the case anymore for a lot of stuff. It really looks like CCP is currently turning Dust into a P2W festival.

It's been "p2w" from the start and the devs will argue that it's not but a two new players start. One pays money and one does not. One gets an APEX suit and one does not. That is very clearly paying for a direct advantage. The only difference is once you get to the higher skill points, paying does nothing. So it works out in the end but this is a free game so enjoy it.

It makes me cringe when I see people that take exception to people spending money to support the game you play. It's laughable that people think f2p games are free, if the micro purchases in the game aren't attractive the game fails.

"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com

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TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 6353	Posted - 2014.12.10 14:35:00 - [31] - Quote Its pay to skip grind. Technically its play to win as well......... Do we hear newbs whining over players having an advantage for playing longer?. Our isk allows us to spam what we want along with our sp so there's no need to grind for isk. So technically it's play or pay to skip grind. The closest it ever game to pay to win was when fused nades were aurum only and much better. It is not pay to win in the slightest and you should be thanking those who have spent if anything as that's the reason the game is still going. I am GJRs Renfield.
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 6354	Posted - 2014.12.10 14:46:00 - [32] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: OP doesn't have a clue what P2W is P2W occurs when spending money on the game gives you a bonus that can't be earned via other means in game. Like you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. I specifically mentioned becoming P2W. Currently I would say it's extremely borderline with the tendency to become full out P2W. I mean the SP boost for example... I accepted it when it only was Active boosters and passive boosters, even though that was laready too much for some people. But now they upped that one with instant boosters. Every little thing is getting monetarized here. To the people saiyin they have to make money somehow: Of course they do. But at some point it starts to hurt the game. You could also make money by selling purely cosmetic changes. Yet the stuff which is actually gameplay changing and you can only get for Aurum is increasing. How long before the first Aurum only weapon comes out which is better than proto and also a BPO? cosmetic changes? i wouldn't spend more than a $1 to paint my character gold. I wouldn't even be able to see it since its an fps and not a 3ps. Monetizing gear wont make much money since we can buy it for ISK once we're specced into it I bought all that pointless crap in ps2 Hahaha. I am GJRs Renfield.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3300	Posted - 2014.12.10 15:09:00 - [33] - Quote No, Dust 514 is W2P. Win 2 Pay for your items. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2622	Posted - 2014.12.11 07:05:00 - [34] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: No, Dust 514 is W2P. Win 2 Pay for your items. What about Respecs? You can buy to spec into the FotM. That's a bit different. Even though I personally don't care as much about that. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1303	Posted - 2014.12.11 07:27:00 - [35] - Quote this is what went wrong with dust, eve online isnt quite as bad. this game should have launched with subscriptions and have everything cost isk. aurum needs to die and whoever came up with it should be fired. same with the nex store. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3966	Posted - 2014.12.11 07:36:00 - [36] - Quote I think it's more P2W than it was? You can definitely get more out of shelling out money than you used to. I think the scope of stacking boosters is... questionable. To me, this is mostly an academic question though. I put a lot of money into Dust pre-Rouge wedding. However, I can't really justify putting more into it now because we have no details on where Dust will be long-term (development was cancelled originally, as I recall... what happened?) or what happened with Legion and imports to that. Until that's concrete, it seems silly to spend on something that was theoretically canned. The development the game has received of late is great, but clashes a bit with the game being "all hotfixes". Neither this game nor Legion are appearing at the next Fanfest. That's too many question marks to be bringing out the credit card at this point. Dren&Templar Tragedy.
VAHZZ 456	Posted - 2014.12.11 07:51:00 - [37] - Quote You can't P2W or sell your soul to the devil to win in dust. You knuckle down and train with countless deaths that you'll all to soon forget about as just another numbing day. This game is ruthless and unforgiving and you will get stomped mercilessly by a dude/lady in militia gear even if you're running proto unless you're good. You can pay to get good armor, but you have to get off your butt to be good. ~ Proud Sniper Scout
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2625	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:02:00 - [38] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: this is what went wrong with dust, eve online isnt quite as bad. this game should have launched with subscriptions and have everything cost isk. aurum needs to die and whoever came up with it should be fired. same with the nex store. I don't think they should charge a subscription. I would stop playing then. They should just add a player store. Let people sell the Aurum stuff for ISK. This would basically solve every problem. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5581	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:04:00 - [39] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: What about Respecs? You can buy to spec into the FotM. That's a bit different. Even though I personally don't care as much about that. Why respec when you can just earn more SP by participating in more matches and earning more WPs, which is free? My advice to you, playa...
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1848	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:08:00 - [40] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Stevez Wingyip wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: A few months back some dev said that they intend Dust to have "one of the fairest microtransactin system" or something along these lines. The focus was that it won't be P2W in any way... but looking at the recent changes I don't think they can accomplish this goal. I mean what have they added recently? Militia BPOs Originally intended to be removed form Dust they're now back and more numerous than ever. It seems like every weapon has a Militia BPO now you can only buy with Aurum. In addition to that there are unique Dropsuit BPOs, namely the Quafe suits. Only obtainable by spending Aurum of course. And well, they are free suits and free weapons. Making sure you don't lose anything when dying. They're only standard stuff though, so maybe that's still fine. But just the sheer amount of BPOs becoming available now makes me worry. Heck: It even takes away from the aspect of being careful what you run. And in the past Militia BPOs were limited. You couldn't run everything when you wanted a free fitting. Now that's changing. As running militia stuff is, expecially for FW, the easiest way to stay ISK postitive it really takes away from being careful about what you're running. Low on ISK? No problem. Just run your free fitting the next few matches. What doesn't make it better are... APEX suits Fair thing: You can farm them. That is if you play for Minmatar or Gallente. Try farming these on Amarr or Caldari side when only getting ~200 LP every match because they're ALWAYS losing. (that's another matter though) But hey! You can of course spent 30 bucks on these Protosuit BPOs. I mean of course: They're only fitted with standard equipment. Doesn't change though that these suits are completely free and the easiest way to get them - that is if you don't want to farm for a month - is just buying them. Market Contract Our beloved stripper in the Captains Quarters. Spend Aurum to get more money from selling stuff. I guess that speaks for itself, doesn't it? SP Booster My favorite really. Increased cap for everybody? Fine. But now you can not only boost that cap with active boosters, no. You can ADDITIONALLY boost your already active boosted match SP further with an instant booster. As SP are one of the most important things in the game this reeks of P2W. I mean of course everybody gets them and I was still fine with normal active boosters. But now the additional instant boost? There's a fine line you have to draw when it comes to saving time without being P2W. And I think that point crossed that line. Strongboxes Best way to get Officer gear. A relatively grindy / hard daily (sometimes only doable by buying boosters) gives you one key a day. You can of course buy more keys... for Aurum. Loyalty Ranks Damn. Have you tried increasing that thing without spending Aurum? And it gives you more of everything. More SP, more Money, more LP. Spending Aurum seems to be the best way to get a higher rank here. Earning warpoints and winning matches seems to do almost nothing. Especially considering how many matches you win when playing FW for Caldari/Amarr. In the past most of the stuff you had to pay for you could also get by looting in FW and PC. And it wasn't the best gear either and people had to continously pay to support running suits using Aurum gear. That was still fine. But now by spending Aurum you have the best chance of getting Officer gear. You get passive bonuses by spending lots of Aurum. You get gear which isn't used up when you die. The cover of being able to get everything for free anyways by just playing is slowly vanishing, as that's not the case anymore for a lot of stuff. It really looks like CCP is currently turning Dust into a P2W festival. It's been "p2w" from the start and the devs will argue that it's not but a two new players start. One pays money and one does not. One gets an APEX suit and one does not. That is very clearly paying for a direct advantage. The only difference is once you get to the higher skill points, paying does nothing. So it works out in the end but this is a free game so enjoy it. It makes me cringe when I see people that take exception to people spending money to support the game you play. It's laughable that people think f2p games are free, if the micro purchases in the game aren't attractive the game fails. EXACTLY. It's like people crying about CCP still trying to keep Dust alive. If the game made no money what's so ever, it would be shut down right and we'd have to wait on Legion. Why doesn't no one understand that F2P doesn't mean you can't buy small advantages? Or rather why can't people understand that P2W means you actually pay to have extreme advantages. You don't have to pay for jack. I never did. You can work your way up and be just as good as the guy with the aurum gear. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2625	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:27:00 - [41] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: What about Respecs? You can buy to spec into the FotM. That's a bit different. Even though I personally don't care as much about that. Why respec when you can just earn more SP by participating in more matches and earning more WPs, which is free? Because it's faster maybe? I mean where you on the forums when we didn't have a possibility to respec? Every ******* day 10 people cried because they wanted to respec. I was always against this. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1707	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:32:00 - [42] - Quote the only thing that could be considered pay to win is boosters as they cannot be obtained by any ingame means. the rest has ingame variants or drop chances. once the player trading comes in boosters will be the new plex and everyone will have access to every item paid or not All Hail Legion
robin williams' ghost Damaged Beyond Repair 231	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:33:00 - [43] - Quote Really? It's pay to win? Tell me, where can I buy this magical pay to win item that will allow a team of noobs to beat a team of vets? I haven't seen one guess I must have missed it. Pay to be slightly better than you would be at your current skill level sure, but definitely not ptw
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5583	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:38:00 - [44] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Because it's faster maybe? I mean where you on the forums when we didn't have a possibility to respec? Every ******* day 10 people cried because they wanted to respec. I was always against this. Faster, sure, but a respec doesn't net you anything that just playing the game would get you. If someone really wants to run FotM fittings then they will stockpile their SP until the week after a hotfix or update. They assess what they believe the new meta to be and dump their SP into that. No respec required. At the end of the day, respecs are a slight convenience. Not P2W at all. My advice to you, playa...
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6363	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:22:00 - [45] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Its not pay-to-win but the over monetization is getting a bit annoying. They have to keep the lights on some how. Anyways, it could allow them to higher temporary workers to create new weapons for the game. It's a slight chance, but better than none. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2386	Posted - 2014.12.12 16:06:00 - [46] - Quote My primary beef with the current AUR store model is that it doesn't feel like New Eden, it feels like some cheezy arcade game. CCP is identifying player frustration points for the game and injecting RMT opportunities at those points in a distasteful and ham-handed way. Normally i wouldn't care about that and in fact support developers squeezing what they can out of the playerbase. Take the Kim Kardashian game - i've seen peeps playing it and as far as i'm concerned overt hucksterism on the part of the developers is absolutely fine there because it fits with the character of the game. Peeps tell me it's not P2W and that's what counts. But in DUST it's different - the only reason i've invested 2+ years in a failed game is because i'm invested in the New Eden universe and willing to do what i can to see that universe become richer and deeper. In New Eden i want the RMT opportunities to align with the character and backstory of our collective experience. The kind of marketing that CCP is engaging in currently is distasteful because it feels exactly the same as a parent dressing up their little girl as a cheap ho and parading her around town. PSN: RationalSpark
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 383	Posted - 2014.12.12 16:48:00 - [47] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: My primary beef with the current taco with store model is that it doesn't feel like New Eden bacon cheeseburger, it feels like some cheezy arcade taco making game. CCP is identifying player frustration points for the game and injecting RMT additives at those points in a distasteful taco and a nasty hamburger anyway. Normally i wouldn't care about that and in fact support developers squeezing burger sauce orwhat they can out of the playerbase. Take the Kim Kardashian game - i've seen peeps playing it and as far as i'm concerned of over cooking on the part of the developers, it is absolutely fine there because it fits with the character of the meat. Peeps tell me it's not overcooked and that's what counts. But in DUST it's different - the only reason i've invested 2kg+ of bacon and cheese over the years in a failed game is because i'm invested in the New Eden bacon cheeseburger and willing to do what i can to see that that burger become richer and deeper. In New Eden i want the RMT additives to align with the character and backstory of our collective need for bacon The kind of Burgers that CCP are engaging in currently are distasteful because it feels exactly the same as a parent dressing salad where girls eat like cheap ho's. Amen. Destinys 10 year plan was great.
Ku Shala The Generals 1054	Posted - 2014.12.12 16:56:00 - [48] - Quote P2W would be if ccp sold level 11 meta gear for aur only which they dont so this game is not p2w. most mmos have premium items for people with lives and expendable income. also this a a free to play game the staff at CCP deserve income/ revenue from this game we love to hate but continue to play. *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2650	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:07:00 - [49] - Quote Time to bump that thread: Warbarges. You can get a damage bonus out of them. 5% max was it I think? Yeah... guess who are the only players who already have that damage bonus. Paying players. And non-paying players have to wait at least 6 days to even get their warbarges to level 2. Heck: Even avoiding the upgrade CD of the warbarge can be done with components (and I was really shocked to see that and instantly thought I was playing a ******* mobile game here) where non paying players currently only get 200 a day. And you can't even speed that up by playing a bit more. No. You can only wait. Nothing more. Do people still want to defend this with "They have to make money somehow!"? The last few patches really had only one goal: Increasing the profit margin of Dust. And with every new patch the game becomes more and more P2W. It kinda seems like CCP watched that South Park episode about Freemium games and used it as an instruction manual. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 935	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:20:00 - [50] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Time to bump that thread: Warbarges. You can get a damage bonus out of them. 5% max was it I think? Yeah... guess who are the only players who already have that damage bonus. Paying players. And non-paying players have to wait at least 6 days to even get their warbarges to level 2. Heck: Even avoiding the upgrade CD of the warbarge can be done with components (and I was really shocked to see that and instantly thought I was playing a ******* mobile game here) where non paying players currently only get 200 a day. And you can't even speed that up by playing a bit more. No. You can only wait. Nothing more. And buying warbarge components is not even like speeding up SP gain. At least SP you can always get passively. For the warbarge components you have to log in at least once every 2 days to grab the components. So no way to upgrade your warbarge a bit after not having played the game for a while. Do people still want to defend this with "They have to make money somehow!"? The last few patches really had only one goal: Increasing the profit margin of Dust. And with every new patch the game becomes more and more P2W. It kinda seems like CCP watched that South Park episode about Freemium games and used it as an instruction manual. They really messed up on the time wall. That's just unacceptable. AE-

hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 601	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:21:00 - [51] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: OP doesn't have a clue what P2W is P2W occurs when spending money on the game gives you a bonus that can't be earned via other means in game. If something takes you half a year to complete without paying 20 bucks to do it, and if that something inherently allows you advantage over your oponents (which none of op's examples do) then it does become pay to win. For example, if paying arum Gave you an immediate boost to damage vs. grinding the game 6 months to get that boost, which everyone will have to get except if you're a scrub ass logi because this game is about killing people, then it does become pay to win. I'm just saying this be cause I heard recently that the WB does have a bonus that does this.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3109	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:35:00 - [52] - Quote Damned if you do, out of business if you don't. It's not an easy dilemma to resolve, but in the end if CCP is not successful, none of us have a game to play. So be careful what you wish for.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5919	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:41:00 - [53] - Quote I have spent a lot and I suck. Kubo has like 14 weapons named after him and hasn't spent a dime. I'm selling Templar Codes. 2 of 5 remaining. 225 mil ISK. Message me in game.
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 436	Posted - 2015.02.03 21:44:00 - [54] - Quote none of the things help you 'win' any more than regular stuff, its usually just better for losing less isk.


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