Yes. Not saying a change to slot layout is bad, just trying to hammer out the problems in the differences between shield and armor vehicles before tackling slot layouts.

*facepalm* You didn't read the context, did you?

Context as in, I'm specifically talking about the Gunnlogi and the Madrugar and how Vehicle Shield Tanking and Vehicle Armor Tanking perform against each other. It had nothing to do with the slot layout of the Sageris.

No, you really can't just ignore slots because viable tanking requires a minimum number of them, and when one tanking style requires fewer minimum slots than the other, you have to look at how it's laid out.

Also I'm going to have to disagree with your analogy. Marauders and Enforcers are no Prototype Tanks, they are Specialty Tanks. So comparing a Standard Amarr Assault with a Standard HAV and then a Prototype Amarr Assault with a Marauder, is simply incorrect. The proper analogy would be Comparing Prototype Frame Suit to a Prototype Specialty suit. The slot layout doesn't differ much, if at all, but people still prefer the Specialty Suits. Why? Because Bonuses are a substantial benefit that the Frame Suit lacks. So while I am not against the idea of increasing slot layouts for specialty vehicles (Hell the Assault Dropship has 2 *less slots* than the Standard Dropship), I also feel it is unreasonable to innately expect an increase in slots, simply because it's a specialty vehicle.

It's fine to suggest that for this kind of skill you deserve something..... but that something does not mean massive bonuses that render a vehicle, weapon, dropsuit, etc without a fair counter.

Nor is their any value in calling yourself a user of that item if it is without counter.

In the end the best things we can do is offer each hull small HP increases, couple that it tastefully selected boosters that apply best to a specific racial groups tanking style and if required add the minimum slots possible (under the current model not desgned for high module counts) to boost eHP.

No Marauder in this game deserves more that 10-11 K eHP for any reason.

On a different note Minmatar do not dual tank. They either Shield or Armour Tank, and they do not primarily speed tank any more than any other racial groups can do equally well or better.

Cuz Slicers, cuz Crusader, cuz Succubus, cuz Tristain, cuz any ship with and MWD and a smart pilot in the pod.

1. Ok since slots don't matter, lets assume Gunnlogi has 1/0 and Madrugar has 0/1. Gunnlogi will fit a better tank, every time, without exception under that assumption since the shield HAV will have better regen, and eHP because it can put a hardener in its 1 slot. Armor will HAVE to fit a repper, and suffer in terms of effective repping an eHP. So how would fix that? Increase armor rep rate to such an extreme that its benefit offsets the fact that it can't fit any hardeners while the 1/0 shield vehicle can. Alright so now reppers are insanely good. Now design your actual tank with 3-5 low slots. Oh look you've recreated a situation where armor reps are obscene compared to the overall fit.

So yeah, slots matter when it comes to basic design.


2. lol, HAV = Heavy Attack Vehicle, and I'm the one that gets accused of not knowing what I'm talking about. But that's ok, I'll overlook it. So basically what you're saying is "Well, ADS has a good bonus so thats why it loses slots". I'm not advocating the removal of slots from an HAV, not in the slightest. But the fact of the matter is that if you've got a Marauder, it's going to be getting bonuses to its defenses that the standard HAV will not have. This will innately make it a more heavily armored vehicle. Therefor it is indeed *better* in terms of defense compared to a standard HAV, regardless of how many slots it has. Therefor it is not REQUIRED that it has more slots. Will it? Maybe, but you act like "HOLY ******* **** IF IT DOESN'T HAVE MORE SLOTS THEN WHY BOTHER?!"


So listen up kiddos, I know you're red with nerd rage but do try to pay attention for a little longer.

I am not saying that specialty HAVs should not receive additional slots. Hell my initial design pass actually included both Marauders and Enforcers having additional slots. What I'm saying is that for sake of balance, it may be unfeasible for them to have an additional slot on top of Specialist Bonuses. Adding 1 slot increases Main-Rack fitting capacity by 33%, and a 20% increase overall... that's huge. The addition of another slot offers an insane benefit, especially if it's on the main rack of the vehicle. Remember the old Marauders? Went from 5/2 to 5/3. That's a 0% increase to main rack fitting ability, and a 12% increase overall. The addition of a slot now is a *significantly* larger buff on top of the existing basic HAV than it used to be.

So now you stack on bonuses, which will push the defenses even higher. So now you have a 33% increase to the fitting ability of the tank, plus bonuses on top of that. How do you think that's going to stack up in terms of balance? You might argue that the bonuses offer a very small benefit to prevent this, but that simply makes the training of that skill even more painful because each level of it feels like a very minor improvement.

The ADS gains a powerful bonus at the expense of slots, and that's why it works. Again, not advocating removal of HAV slots in the slightest, but *if I had to pick between the two* would rather have powerful bonuses with the same level of slots *which would still make the HAV significantly more defensible* rather than an extra slot and weak bonuses that don't feel like they're worth training.

.

1. partial module cooldowns for partial use.

2. limit all active modules to one per vehicle

3. buff active hardeners a bit to make up for not being able to stack more than one

4. allow passive modules to be stacked w/penalties

5. allow marauders to fit and use two active modules of the same type

http://dust514.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Attack_Vehicles_%28HAV%29

"The Heavy Attack Vehicle (HAV) serves as an anchoring unit for many planetary engagements, fulfilling its role as a long-range and heavily armoured unit. Equipped with thick and resilient armour plating and high-capacity shielding systems, it is a tenacious defensive vehicle, able to withstand persistent onslaughts from entrenched enemies."

Lol, again HAV in DUST stands for Heavy Attack Vehicle, as per the wiki. Sure it can be heavily armored, but that's not what the acronym stands for.

The really hilarious part is that I'm not even necessarily disagree with you on increase slot layout, yet you're still flailing your arms about like I am. It's cute, adorable even.