DUST Search - Buff Prox Explosives

Spademan wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

With the incoming bandwidth changes there will be even less proximity mines on the field than there already are (I think I've seen two other people aside from myself get mine kills, in the entire time I've been playing).

Vehicles already get an advance warning system for them and it is ridiculous that they do less damage than REs (have no fear, I am not proposing that silly swap damages).

I think that they should be buffed to 150% of the damage output of a corresponding tier RE, so:

STD: 1875 per mine
ADV: 2250 per mine
PRO: 2625 per mine

Comments, Questions, Thoughts?

Hmmm how many max deployable, splash radius, scan profiles, then I can work out the damage profiles for each tank type and then consider how I feel as a tanker about being killed by them.

Do they have a deployment timer? Or are they deployed instantly, do they stick to surfaces, etc.

RE are currently the other think I don't think is fair in AV vs Vehicle balance as no JLAV should be able to apply 10054 explosive damage vs a vehicle in the way JLAV's do.

If a RE sticks to it, a PE will.
Deployable: 4 at Std, 5 at Adv and 6 at Pro. 5m blast, I don't know about current profile but that's changing along with the other equipment.


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Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.04 22:57:00 - [1] - Quote With the incoming bandwidth changes there will be even less proximity mines on the field than there already are (I think I've seen two other people aside from myself get mine kills, in the entire time I've been playing). Vehicles already get an advance warning system for them and it is ridiculous that they do less damage than REs (have no fear, I am not proposing that silly swap damages). I think that they should be buffed to 150% of the damage output of a corresponding tier RE, so: STD: 1875 per mine ADV: 2250 per mine PRO: 2625 per mine Comments, Questions, Thoughts? Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:14:00 - [2] - Quote @Spademan lol, sorry about the luck with that LLAV However, I use them whenever I notice reddots using LAVs (or HAVs but LAVs are the best targets). You'd be surprised how often I get kills with them. I love it, it is always nice when you're in the middle of a firefight and all of a sudden: Madrugar Damage +75 Madrugar Damage +75 Madrugar Destruction +150 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Pops up on your screen, I imagine they're fairly pissed as well which makes it all the sweeter. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:20:00 - [3] - Quote RedPencil wrote: All trap equipments (RE and Prox) defiantly need to visit and address. Even the damage buff, 1.10 will kill all trap game anyway. Congratulation Thank to Rattati, he just made it worse. from 1.10 Patch notes: * All Equipment now has a tiered Scan Profile: STD/ADV/PRO = 55/45/35 dB Without active scan, EVERYONE CAN SEE PROX ON TACNET. I totally missed that Well, that sucks....... Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.04 23:57:00 - [4] - Quote Spademan wrote: True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: With the incoming bandwidth changes there will be even less proximity mines on the field than there already are (I think I've seen two other people aside from myself get mine kills, in the entire time I've been playing). Vehicles already get an advance warning system for them and it is ridiculous that they do less damage than REs (have no fear, I am not proposing that silly swap damages). I think that they should be buffed to 150% of the damage output of a corresponding tier RE, so: STD: 1875 per mine ADV: 2250 per mine PRO: 2625 per mine Comments, Questions, Thoughts? Hmmm how many max deployable, splash radius, scan profiles, then I can work out the damage profiles for each tank type and then consider how I feel as a tanker about being killed by them. Do they have a deployment timer? Or are they deployed instantly, do they stick to surfaces, etc. RE are currently the other think I don't think is fair in AV vs Vehicle balance as no JLAV should be able to apply 10054 explosive damage vs a vehicle in the way JLAV's do. If a RE sticks to it, a PE will. Deployable: 4 at Std, 5 at Adv and 6 at Pro. 5m blast, I don't know about current profile but that's changing along with the other equipment. Since we are tweaking damage values, why not also tweak the other values? I'd propose 2/3/3 deployed, 10m blast and remove the warning beep. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.05 00:27:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: So what do you suggest as a direct damage value under the 2/3/3 model without the sound prompts. Well, I was thinking the same as the OP this would give totals of 3750/6750/7875 Which would mean that they'd be only truly effective against HAVs that were fleeing incoming damage or LAVs. Looking at it like that, I am inclined to say that PRO should be 4 rather than 3 or they should get damage buffed further to 200% of REs STD: 2500 ADV: 3000 PRO: 3500 Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.05 00:49:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: True Adamance wrote: So what do you suggest as a direct damage value under the 2/3/3 model without the sound prompts. Well, I was thinking the same as the OP this would give totals of 3750/6750/7875 Which would mean that they'd be only truly effective against HAVs that were fleeing incoming damage or LAVs. Looking at it like that, I am inclined to say that PRO should be 4 rather than 3 or they should get damage buffed further to 200% of REs STD: 2500 ADV: 3000 PRO: 3500 Okay lets work out the maths for that. 35001.2 = 4200 Explosive Damage vs Armour Per Proxy 42004 = 16800 (you have almost 4800 damage overkill making that 3rd proxy pointless) vs armour vehicles 3500* 0.8 = 2800 Explosive Damage vs Shields Per Proxy 2800+4 = 11200 (much fairer value) However without the sound prompts I do not believe this is a fair damage model. With it. I could get behind it.....but its just another Anti Armour Av option in a sea of Anti Armour AV options...... and probably would cause me to campaign for JLAV removal from the game. You bring up a good point. Why not solve that point by taking existing models and using them to add Flux variants of both PE and RE? Also, you only do the math for PRO PE, which isn't really the greatest comparison since I think we can all agree that PRO AV should lolwtfpwn STD V. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2288	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:31:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I'll always use the best variant of something in a series because its likely the most commonly used tool competitively vs something of equal tier. 3600 per remote @ ADV vs armour 14400 Explosive Damage all up vs armour (unfair value as even 2/4 Marauders cannot attain 14K EHP...) 2400 per remote @ ADV vs shields 9600 Explosive Damage all up vs shield (fair value) 3000 per @ STD vs armour 12000 Explosive all up 2000 per remote vs Shields 8000 Explosive Damage vs Shield Disparities are too great vs shield and armour and without sound based indicators they are there ....... another nail in the coffin. I am all for them doing sizeable damage to a vehicle like a tank but I do not believe there is cause to remove the sound based indicators or have yet another tool for AV that will instantly Alpha a tank of the field especially when new OB strikes are being designed expressly for this. I could certainly see something more akin to a damage cap (for all remotes hitting around 9-10K damage vs armour tanks and the Flux variations around similar values for shield HAV) moreover a Radius of 10m is huge........ I could suggest a 3/3/4 model with values ranging in between 2000 per explosive and 2300. With Flux and Anti Armour variations. See, IDK, IMHO, a single PE should be all that it takes to put a LAV out of commission. I don't think that a single PE should decommission an HAV (at least until we can specify track damage as opposed to hull damage), it should take at least a full single tier load of PE to kill an HAV. If that HAV misses even one they should still be able to limp away. However, PE kills are usually from LAVs speeding along not paying attention or damaged HAVs fleeing their aggressors straight into the arms of death. My problem with the warning beep is that it reminds me of a game I used to play that had a detector for explosives though you had to actually choose to take it rather than getting it as a built in feature. It just strikes me as a crutch that should be a module you need to choose to fit to get that benefit. If it isn't a module, PE should be instagank, you heard the free beep, you chose to keep moving forward, you lost your HAV and went back to respawn, gimme your cookie. @Victor Moody Stahl I am aware of what a T1/T2 paradigm is, has that been confirmed for Dust though? I know it looks that way though I am just curious if we're going to end up getting STD/ADV/PRO ADS/DS/HAV/LLAVs/SLAVs once things are a little more hammered out balance-wise. @Shinobi TBH, this is all spitballing. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2289	Posted - 2014.12.05 13:06:00 - [8] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: You bring up a good point. Why not solve that point by taking existing models and using them to add Flux variants of both PE and RE? Also, you only do the math for PRO PE, which isn't really the greatest comparison since I think we can all agree that PRO AV should lolwtfpwn STD V. I believe that there was at one point (and may still be) STD Flux PEs, though I don't think there have been Flux REs. If there are or were, I totally missed them and I've been a member of the Dust Miners Union since Chromosome. @True Yeah, I honestly think it'd be easier if they just gave us the Eve Damage Profiles instead of Armor/Shield. At least then we could vary the damage outputs/resists more which would make it easier to do balancing. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2302	Posted - 2014.12.07 16:39:00 - [9] - Quote @Victor Only time will tell. IDK which I am pulling for more though since STD/ADV/PRO would be consistent with what we already have in Dust but T1/T2 would be more consistent with Eve (which TBH is the base game and I've always wondered why they went with STD/ADV/PRO instead of T1/T2). @Thundergroove I too have had nerdgasms for the same reason. Also, Never not use all the tiers @Lazer Fo Cused 1. I have watched HAVs slow to a stop and reverse just at the edge of a minefield, I doubt the advanced warning system is as worthless as you'd have us believe. 2. LAVs are low-hanging fruit, minefields are an inherent risk associated with zipping around in one. 3. The only time I have seen HAVs travelling at max speed is when they were fleeing AV (in which case they're gonna die one way or the other). 4. The numbers are an idea, have numbers you think are more reasonable? Suggest them. 5. Don't ***** to me about the lack of ADV/PRO vehicles, I'm not a Dev. 6. You have a Pilot suit? Please tell me where I can get the skillbook, I am only a Pilot suit away from having full PRO Minmatar Dropsuits. Aside from that, I would love it if they added an Explosives Detector (maybe then we could get Anti-Infantry Prox Mines as well). 7. Stop worrying solely about running around in a solo pwnmobile and practice some teamwork and then that handheld scanner wouldn't be a problem. 8. See #4 above. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2304	Posted - 2014.12.08 04:18:00 - [10] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: 7. Stop worrying solely about running around in a solo pwnmobile and practice some teamwork and then that handheld scanner wouldn't be a problem. Pilots have been asking for this for months, and every time a suggestion is made that fundamentally determines the role of a vehicle certain sections of the forums pounce on it and nothing every changes. Most pilots whose opinions are worth asking for aren't interested in massacring infantry and would rather be blapping turrets, tanks, entrenched positions, etc But killing infantry is all infantry have every let us do. However regarding the RE I suggested that values between 2050 and 2300 with 4 deployable at proto level would be acceptable. Proportionately less for each additionally Proxy able to be deployed. Either you want concentrated AP mines with high alpha, a compact blast radius, and high penetrative power...... or you want lots of Proxies, with larger blast radius, and significantly lesser penetrative power. Yeah, I understand that not every pilot is wanting to run around doing nothing but murdering infantry by the vatload and I support your pursuit of other endeavors. I want you to have other things to do rather than killing infantry since that means that you'll likely be occupied when I start hammering you with AV (surprise!!). I think the numbers that you propose are fair however IMHO, if PRO gets 4 @2300, ADV should get 5@2175 and STD should get 6@2050 though to compensate, higher tiers should have less bandwidth cost. This would mean that you could concentrate larger numbers of the lower tier mines for higher damage potential in exchange for battlefield utility (since you're spending more bandwidth for them and you'll likely not be able to do much other than lay out the single tier field). As for your either or, what if I want both? Is that too much to ask? I like both ideas and I think that they would make for more diversity in minefields. Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim