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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3816
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Honestly I think people latch onto the Commando's flavor text a bit too much and focus on the 'suppression' word. I think the issue in my mind comes from the fact that adding a bonus doesn't necessarily turn a weapon into a suppression weapon. Like magazine size for a Plasma Rifle doesn't really make it better at suppressing weapon because you're still forced to be in close range, and the magazine size on the Plasma Rifle is plenty big as is. I mean, it's kind of hard to suppress an enemy who's weapon outranges you most of the time, you know?
Probably the only two true suppression weapons I can think of is the Laser Rifle and the Mass Driver. The laser rifle's range and DPS allow it to absolutely tear things apart given the right range, and acts as the perfect area denial/suppression weapon. The Mass Driver obviously has the capability of applying damage over a wide area and can push enemies out of an area with sustained fire. So bonuses to these weapons? Awesome. The problem is we dont have weapons for Caldari or Gallente that properly fill the suppression role, so its difficult to come up with bonuses to affect those weapons for each of the 4 Commandos. Plus since they get two weapons each that basically means that even with 4 suppression weapons, they're only getting half benefit. Get what I'm saying?
I mean let's be honest here, I love the Commando, it's awesome, but it should have never been born. Assaults should have always had two light weapons and filled that role from the start. However they do exist so we have to see what to do with them. I earnestly believe that Assaults and Commandos should just fill very similar roles. They're made to attack, but they do certain things a little differently. Commandos are slow with HP and plow up the middle, Assaults are faster with less HP (Well not really but Commandos need a buff) and flank around. I think it's fine if they both have a damage bonus, as they're both attackers, and then their secondary bonuses can modify the role in a unique way for each. I mean one idea that I'm a huge fan of is that the Assault's damage and weapon support bonuses allow it to fit and use racial weapons extremely efficiently by offsetting the downsides of the weapon and making it more flexible. The Commando on the other hand maintains one light weapon for Anti Infantry defense but also can carry a Light AV weapon, making it a dangerous AV platform without becoming overly weak against infantry. Granted that too would require more weapons, but I think you get my point.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3816
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
JIAF-PR wrote:Everyone here is agree then that existing bonuses of the Assault suits (proposed here pass on to the Commando, essentially) are crappy bonuses?
On the contrary, heat buildup reduction for Amarr and Magazine Size for Minmatar are quite useful bonuses.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3816
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Posted - 2014.12.04 16:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
You seem to be suggesting that we leave the bonuses the way they are and just give Assault suits a Damage bonus over top of what they have now. I have suggested this myself in the past, and I still donGÇÖt object to going that route.
In regard to my proposal here, do you think that instead of having a uniform role bonus for Commando we should give them two customized bonuses? Then we could give the Gallente Comando Assault Rifle range + Plasma weapon reload. That would give them more reach with the Assault Rifle to make up for their slower movement and allow the Assault Rifle to be more effective at area denial over open ground.
As to Caldari, while they donGÇÖt have a suppressive fire weapon, I see the Sniper Rifle as a very effective area denial weapon. You could argue that the Rail Rifle is adapt at area denial as well.
Yes I think Assault's current theme of bonuses works (Cal needs a lot of work, Gal might need some tweaking) but the concept is solid. I also think they would do will with a damage bonus as it would solidify their role as 'Slayers' and put the damn Slayer Logi fears to rest.
As for Bonuses, if you actually look at other roles, namely Scout and Sentinel, they each have 1-2 Role Bonuses and then 2 Racial Bonuses. One could argue that Assaults technically have 3 role bonuses but if thats true than Logis have like....7. I think it's safe to say that Assaults simply get 1 Role Bonus of "Weapon Fitting Reduction" just as Logis get "Equipment Fitting Reduction" That being said what you really have are Scouts and Sentinels with 1-2 Role and 2 Racial, where Commandos, Logis, and Assaults have only 1 Role and 1 Racial. I think therefor its reasonable that *all* classes get 2 racial bonuses.
So in this case Assaults would keep the Role Bonus (Weapon Fitting), Racial Weapon Support, as well Racial Weapon Damage. Commandos would maintain their Role Bonus (Reload Speed - Because that **** is kickass for AV weapons), Racial Damage, and then receive some additional Racial Bonus. That's the general principle of how I see it.
I get very wary of Range Bonuses, especially since Rattati has balanced DPS against Range, and range bonuses kinda mess that up.
Sniper RIfle is......ehhhh sorta area denial? Kinda? Maybe?
Rail Rifle could be consider suppression probably, but that's mostly because it has superior range to everything else (save like a Sniper RIfle)
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3817
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Posted - 2014.12.04 17:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think in general people try very hard to make the Assaults and Commandos distinctively different....and I don't think they are. I think filling the same general role but doing so in a slightly different way is going to really make them both shine. I mean as I stated before I think I like the Commando being the Vehicle Killer and the Assault being the Infantry Killer makes the most intuitive sense to me, but we would probably need more Light AV weapons first (which are on the cards from what I'm tracking of Rattati's Discussions)
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I rather like some of your bonuses. Like the Splash Damage is awesome for Minmatar Commando.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3875
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Posted - 2014.12.09 16:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Sorry fox. Sh*t bonuses on assaults don't magically become good when you swap them to commandos.
On any weapon with less than 2 sec reload time reload speed is a wasted suit bonus. I was operating under the assumption that a reload speed bonus would be a direct DPS increase to a weapon with a 1 round clip, however I am not overly experienced with the Plasma Cannon, having not used it in quite some time, so I could very well be wrong on that. If so, then Gallente should have a different bonus that increases DPS. Any Plasma Cannon users want to tell me if a 25% reload speed bonus would be a sufficient buff to the Plasma Cannon? Any suggestions for a different bonus? I am also not apposed to Pokey Dravon's suggestion of leaving the bonuses essentially as they are and just adding a Damage Bonus for the Assault suits on top of what they already have. That was essentially what I was advocating 2 or 3 months ago.
Well 25% Reload is the bonus Commandos get, and honestly it feels about right on my Plasma Cannon. Reload to V and Commando to V gives you around 2.2 second reload which is pretty solid. I would not buff it beyond that.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
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