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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
210
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Posted - 2014.12.02 06:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Our base regen is 30 and the more we use the more the delay for regen is penalized.
But it isn't about just the numbers on the suit. I'm talking about effectiveness. You can stack 4 ferroscales and a repper on a gal assault with a triage nanohive AND use damage mods without sacrificing the majority of where your health comes from. Plus, armor is the second line of defense, so you also have shield regen to help protect you as well.
30hp/s is exceptionally powerful, we need 3 module slots to get that. You get an extra 20hp/s from one module, and have modules to cut that delay to 2-3 seconds. That's not even mentioning Cal Scouts and their built in 50hp/s and low delays lol :) everyone screams regen when it comes to shield dropsuits because that's the only advantage it seems to have. I've already named at least 2 or 3 advantages to armor tanking in this thread.
Regen isnt even an advantage for shield commando/assaults, the regen on them is so slow you have to fit 2+ regulators to get it down to a decent level, doable for the assaults but expensive for min comm and downright impossible for cal comm, and the regen on the scout is stupidly high/low respectively in both hp/s and delay. The Caldari sentinel has very low delays but I think is more balanced given the nature of the suit. On top of that, you generally have little to no armor regen on the shield tankers, so you end up with a big armor pool you can only really dip into once in a long while.
This wouldnt be a huge deal if you could play a skirmishing standoff style game in Dust consistently, but since objective play is almost always CQC work and the current mechanics and prevalence of scouts means you are basically in danger of being 2 shotted and/or surprise attacked at all times, skirmish play doesnt really work in any meaningful way.
Add to this the scrambler rifle being not just good against but downright overpowered against straight shield tanks, and after the armor repper buff and given that there still are no shield regen repair tools or nanohives, the armor suits take the edge these days simply because of how the game tends to play out.
I dont think its a huge imbalance though, and a few small tweaks could even the playing field entirely.
Tweaks I would suggest:
Tighten up scrambler rifle damage profile so it isnt overpowering against shield users, give it a max shots/sec. similar to the duvolle tactical. As long as this rifle can strip any quantity of shields in the game in half a second of furious clicking, shield tanking is going to be suicidal.
I would make assault and commando delays a couple seconds lower, and make the cal scout one second higher, with maybe 30 or 40 shield regen/s base.
Bigger tweaks:
Some equipment to enhance or work with shields.
More open area points that arent CQC hotspots.
Fix ******* scouts so there is a real counter to them, but thats just my own little axe I grind, ignore me. ;d |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
211
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 14:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ace Boone wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I would like to start (or revisit) this conversation to see where the community's head is at as far as which is the more effective choice. I've had arguments with Cat Merc because he feels that armor tanking gets the short end of the stick and I can't believe how he could think that. Shield suits, tanks, ADS are at a disadvantage to armor suits in so many ways. And I just read a thread about shields vs armor in the feedback section and I want to open up the dialogue on this.
I'll start by saying I think that armor tanking beats out shield tanking, generally, more times than not. If you shield tank as opposed to armor or dual tank then you have to play the scared role. Even as a cal heavy....you are subject to flux grenades and +20% scrambler rifle (most OP rifle in the game) ammunition. Shields are your first line of defense. If your first line is your major line of defense and it is gone rapidly, you are strung out of luck. If you armor tank, and you get surprised and lose your shields to a flux or a scrambler rifle...you still have time to react and enough health to defend yourself.
I can really go further but I'd like to open up the floor for discussion...
Nope the Shield HAV is statistically better than the Armour HAV. Better fitting capacity (evinced by the "EHP ***** Sica" which can fit a whole proto line up and field 9K EHP vs Explosive AV) Better tracking and mobility optiions that reduce the penalties of slow tracking turrets Comprable and better EHP values Better stand and deliver capacity Better passive regen capacity (168 per second without even fitting a module after 4 seconds) Access to fitting modules without sacrificing racial tank all of that sounds good but can a shield rail or blaster beat a maddy blaster 1v1? Even a maddy rail has advantages. I don't know much about the fitting requirements of a maddy but most of the health is in the low slots and they can still have dmg mods without sacrificing health. I agree that Maddys are better in combat, however, it is very hard to actually fit damage mods on a Madrugar without completely sacrificing most of your PG/CPU. That's why a fuel injector is always the go-to module.
The fuel injector is the go-to module because its stupidly hard to consistently hit a tank with one active at close range if they are moving perpendicular-ish to you and you are trying to use a railgun turret/forge gun/missile turrets |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
212
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 18:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
Besides it's natural resist profile vs short range high DPS weapons like the SMG, Combat Rifle, and(not fitting into the DPS category) Mass Driver is a very nice set of benefits in my mind (this coming from an armour tanker), coupled with natural speed, and utility lows all seem like perfectly good reasons to shield tank to me.
Just addressing your point about resistances on shield vs. armor: I dont think shields win that arguement, sure the explosive resistance is pretty nice, but as for resisting the SMG and combat rifle, shields are more vulnerable to shotguns and plasma rifles which are higher dps than either of those, add to that the damage profile of the scrambler rifle being pretty damn OP right now at longer ranges and what you have is the shield tankers being pretty vulnerable at all ranges. More so than armor tankers and with less buffer to boot. |
Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
221
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 16:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:And people are talking about the ability to lose low slots. Which mod would you rather be able to stack alongside your hp mods? Dmg mods or codebreakers, damps, range amps, any regulator, etc??
I just fitted a gal assault on protofits and realized that you could fit more stuff on a gal assault suit than a cal or minmatar. You only have 3 highs, so you won't be using a lot of cpu and you get tons more pg. Not to mention a shield extender is 54/11 as opposed to reactives and ferroscales that are 23/8 (pg/cpu)...favoritism much??
I don't think favoritism is the right word to use, lets just say there are some imbalances in shield v. armor tanking as the game exists now and work from there 
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:
shield tanking sucks and willl die when rattatti introduces speed nerfs to shield moduals meaning bye bye shield tankers! and it will become Armor514 or more likly Amarr514.. since armor will be king
I think this is actually a really good point, but maybe not exactly correct: I think once the hp modules speed nerf goes live, hp stacking across the board will become less desirable, which is an indirect buff to scrambler rifles since they have a much better time the lower enemy hp gets, which becomes a disproportionate nerf to shield tankers since more scrambler rifles will be used against even less shield hp since people will be influenced to stack less shields.
Things to consider. |
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