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Miokai Zahou
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
417
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Posted - 2014.11.27 10:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just did a match in Dom in an ADS to see if the rendering issue has been fixed so I sat a fair bit away from the objective and here are the results from what I saw:
- Swarms are still not rendering
- Swarms VS Vehicles are still too powerful for a 'fire and forget' device
- Mercs on the ground are still invisible and render only when you are really close up to touch them
- ADS are still underwhelming and need to be looked into considering the isk and SP sink
My suggestion is to implement an air-to-ground warning system for the ADS when being locked on to as the limitations of the PS3 is what is stopping dedicated pilots from playing their roles now.
Please note: I'm also specialised into swarms and forge and I believe swarms are too powerful and need to be adjusted as well.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
239
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Posted - 2014.11.27 10:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
I recently specced into swarms and a lot of the time another random volley of missiles come out of my swarm launcher after its fired. The extra ones don't have any effect though, they deal no damage.
Was this happening before the supposed "swarm rendering fix"? |
Miokai Zahou
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
417
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:I recently specced into swarms and a lot of the time another random volley of missiles come out of my swarm launcher after its fired. The extra ones don't have any effect though, they deal no damage.
Was this happening before the supposed "swarm rendering fix"?
I believe that would be the lag kicking in. The rendering issue is from the perspective of the ADS pilot where you 'could' be looking at the enemy swarm player but he/she is un-render so there is no chance of knowing what about to happen, next thing you know you have been hit by two rounds of swarms and a third or four is already trailing you before you can get away.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
239
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Posted - 2014.11.27 10:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:VikingKong iBUN wrote:I recently specced into swarms and a lot of the time another random volley of missiles come out of my swarm launcher after its fired. The extra ones don't have any effect though, they deal no damage.
Was this happening before the supposed "swarm rendering fix"? I believe that would be the lag kicking in. The rendering issue is from the perspective of the ADS pilot where you 'could' be looking at the enemy swarm player but he/she is un-render so there is no chance of knowing what about to happen, next thing you know you have been hit by two rounds of swarms and a third or four is already trailing you before you can get away.
To me it seems like a quick CCP style patch-over of a problem. That went terribly wrong and instead of fixing the problem it generated a new one.
I used a militia swarm occasionally a while ago, before 1.9 and the "rendering fix", and did not notice this problem at all. |
Miokai Zahou
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
417
|
Posted - 2014.11.27 10:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:Miokai Zahou wrote:VikingKong iBUN wrote:I recently specced into swarms and a lot of the time another random volley of missiles come out of my swarm launcher after its fired. The extra ones don't have any effect though, they deal no damage.
Was this happening before the supposed "swarm rendering fix"? I believe that would be the lag kicking in. The rendering issue is from the perspective of the ADS pilot where you 'could' be looking at the enemy swarm player but he/she is un-render so there is no chance of knowing what about to happen, next thing you know you have been hit by two rounds of swarms and a third or four is already trailing you before you can get away. To me it seems like a quick CCP style patch-over of a problem. That went terribly wrong and instead of fixing the problem it generated a new one.
That's correct there seems to be more issues with the swarms now then before the patch fix and I only hope that Rattati would look into this issue int he next hotfix cycle or do a quick 'buff' to the ADS/DS so that the players have a chance to avoid a situation where invisible swarms hit them.
Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1024
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Posted - 2014.11.27 14:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
I suggest having a look at Juno Tristan's thread here. It's something of an overhaul, but essentially puts some skill into the use of the Swarm. I agree entirely that Swarms are far too effective for such a simple to use weapon: a lock-on warning would be brilliant and solve a lot of rendering issues by proxy. Still, I'd rather see them require some skill to actually use rather than giving the target a mild warning.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
15209
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Posted - 2014.11.27 14:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I suggest having a look at Juno Tristan's thread here. It's something of an overhaul, but essentially puts some skill into the use of the Swarm. I agree entirely that Swarms are far too effective for such a simple to use weapon: a lock-on warning would be brilliant and solve a lot of rendering issues by proxy. Still, I'd rather see them require some skill to actually use rather than giving the target a mild warning.
The problem is that DUST no longer has a development team, so if it doesn't already exist in the assets, it likely never will. For the foreseeable future, we can only rely on numbers to achieve balance, rather than mechanics or new assets
Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube
WoD 514
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
5148
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Posted - 2014.11.27 14:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Just did a match in Dom in an ADS to see if the rendering issue has been fixed so I sat a fair bit away from the objective and here are the results from what I saw:
- Swarms are still not rendering
- Swarms VS Vehicles are still too powerful for a 'fire and forget' device
- Mercs on the ground are still invisible and render only when you are really close up to touch them
- ADS are still underwhelming and need to be looked into considering the isk and SP sink
My suggestion is to implement an air-to-ground warning system for the ADS when being locked on to as the limitations of the PS3 is what is stopping dedicated pilots from playing their roles now.
Please note: I'm also specialised into swarms and forge and I believe swarms are too powerful and need to be adjusted as well.
Been saying that for a long time. I am guessing that it is not so easy to implement. But I am hoping they can figure out a way to do it.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1024
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Posted - 2014.11.27 15:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The problem is that DUST no longer has a development team, so if it doesn't already exist in the assets, it likely never will. For the foreseeable future, we can only rely on numbers to achieve balance, rather than mechanics or new assets
We got new art assets, maps and sockets. It is not out of the realm of possibility to get a rework of mechanics. Yes, we can only rely on numbers right now - that does not mean that we should completely shut down talks about fixing the underlying issues.
Again, not everything can be solved with the numbers we have, so discussing ways to improve the game in other ways is not a waste of time, it is preparation for when we are granted additional resources (as we saw when the 1.9 update was announced.) Perhaps for future client updates, we will be consulted about what needs to be fixed, or they will take from what we have already discussed.
So please, stop trying to shut down discussion about alternatives.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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ImIvan
56
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Posted - 2014.11.27 15:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
ADS are underwhelming? Seems fine to me, sure the incubus is crap, but a python with a hardener can easily dispatch of a swarmer or flee.
ADS are also great for taking out tanks, I fail to see what's wrong with them.
Why must you use prototypes?
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Mobius Wyvern
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
5455
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Just did a match in Dom in an ADS to see if the rendering issue has been fixed so I sat a fair bit away from the objective and here are the results from what I saw:
- Swarms are still not rendering
- Swarms VS Vehicles are still too powerful for a 'fire and forget' device
- Mercs on the ground are still invisible and render only when you are really close up to touch them
- ADS are still underwhelming and need to be looked into considering the isk and SP sink
My suggestion is to implement an air-to-ground warning system for the ADS when being locked on to as the limitations of the PS3 is what is stopping dedicated pilots from playing their roles now.
Please note: I'm also specialised into swarms and forge and I believe swarms are too powerful and need to be adjusted as well.
I would LOVE a lock-on warning. The hilarious thing is that I can't think of a SINGLE combined arms game that doesn't feature some means of lock-on warning for vehicles.
The other thing I'd love is a countermeasure system that has cooldowns similar to a Hardener.
Effectively when I see a shitload of Swarms coming at me, I can pop a Flare to cause them to fly off target and get out of the area. This reinforces the deterrent role of AV and means that I need to work with infantry to take out the AV users.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Kaeru Nayiri
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
216
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Posted - 2014.11.27 18:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lock-On warning system would be nice, but it won't change the effectiveness of swarms.
What I really want to see is a reliable method to SCRUB missiles in the air. Right now their max turning radius is 70 degrees, but they still turn 180 degrees if you fire them with your back to the locked target. Can anyone clarify WHAT the 70 degrees really is? |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1025
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Posted - 2014.11.27 19:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
ImIvan wrote:ADS are underwhelming? Seems fine to me, sure the incubus is crap, but a python with a hardener can easily dispatch of a swarmer or flee.
ADS are also great for taking out tanks, I fail to see what's wrong with them.
Issue is that ADSs have little to do but kill non-AV infantry due to several factors:
- communication with non-squadmates is limited by individual mics and the fractious nature of the voice comms (also because of the length of time we've had where comms have been bad, people just don't care beyond squad)
- lack of signalling: we're incapable of deploying nerfs without voice comms; too often will people either remain in your vehicle well after you've hovered over a suitable area, or otherwise deploy entirely too early
- our role (strafing runs, according to Rattati) is impossible due to the turret functionality and our bonuses being torn away: we have a very limited ability to engage, and our ability to supress a landing zone for our infantry is entirely insufficient
- our resilience is entirely at odds with the description: we are supposedly able to take heavy fire while extracting infantry; this is simply not possible unless a Python is double hardened against STD/ADV Swarms. Even then, the impulse effects are liable to toss you about and into terrain.
Quite frankly the role of the ADS is a shambles: we previously had the firepower to dominate a landing zone, but too much resilience to go along with it. Now we lack either (except one fitting designed to specifically counter the opposite end of the damage spectrum: shield hardeners vs explosive AV) and are told to do something (strafing runs) we are incapable of performing.
If the ADS is to remain a useful part of the game, it needs to be properly focused: if strafing runs and deployment are to be its fort+¬, then we should build the hull around it, while standard dropships remain a jack of all trades. So what do we need to do:
- lower tank capability: an ADS should not be as resilient, such that it relies upon high speed, high impact passes to destroy or evade AV fire
- higher power projection: an ADS should be able to turn areas that it dives upon into deathtraps for infantry or vehicles (depending on the turret/specialisation) - off that to happen we will likely need different turret functionality through the ADS skills (higher ROF, bigger clips, lower spare ammo, longer reloads, etc)
Bah, I'm getting to involved in my point. Point being,what we have now are just flying killers. When fully utilised as transports they are plenty capable of turning the battle around, but the ship itself can only remain for a few seconds if AV is present at all,meaning it is entirely incapable of supporting its deployed infantry. Speed and power should be the weapons of an ADS, but at the moment we have a little too much resilience and not enough power (aka, ROF) to function as intended.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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