DUST Search - New heavy weapons?

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Greiv Rabbah wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

We really need to quit trying to apply EVE ship terminology to DUST weapons and suits.

They don't always translate well.

Nor can a dropsuit be treated like a ship for balancing purposes.

No we don't. Eve is the game we play, whether we're eggers or dustbunnies. The egger technology is the proper template for crrating proper dust tech. We want dust weapons to be balanced and appropriate "in world" and looking to how the tech works for the eggers is a good way to visualize how the tech should work for dust bunnies too. Also, why shouldnt dropsuits be treated essentially like ships? Mostly we just use tgem to fight but thats just bc thats all weve been given to do with them so far. And there certainly arent enough vehicles to treat them like eve ships instead. In fact, dust vehicles have veen stripped down to veing very basic when they ought to ve as varied in application and type as eve ships are but since dropsuits are the more varied means of fulfilling our objective, we ought to have handheld shield rechargers, drones(scout drones sentry drones, repair drones, idc even salvage drones!) and salvage tools.
The more i consider your statement, the more i disagree. Keeping eve online tech consistent in eve dust514 only deepens immersion and builds a more fleshed out world to do combat in

The point.

You missed it.

Keeping the TECH consistent is fine. Terminology needs to be more flexible.

And as far as treating dropsuits like ships?

A sentinel is not a megathron, no matter how much someone might cry otherwise.

Dropsuits are not ships. They don't act the same way, operate the same way and I don't have to align to something to pick a goddamn direction.

You cannot balance DUST dropsuits like EVE ships for that reason alone. Human direct control over all aspects of the activity in the game, like aiming and firing instead of turning on auto attack and letting the game calculate how you do, changes how everything works.

So no. Uou cannot balance dropsuits like EVE ships. You can keep the theme, concept and racial flavor.

But a scout mk.0 is not a damn Wolf Frigate.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 18	Posted - 2014.11.27 17:14:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: My idea is to create, using existing assets, a heavy plasma cannon (mortar), a heavy laser and a heavy HMG (autocannon) They would be more than capable at taking out vehicles, be proper "H" weapons even if they share a model with the light weapon and be differentiated by firing behaviour and effect. I believe this can be done with our tools. Now just to balance them. Sorry but this doesn't make much sense. Heres why: a plasma mortar sounds like a long range weapon while the current "close mid" range weapon (hmg) has been boxed into short range. I really feel a plasma flamethrower is the way to go here as a true close range heavy weapon is needed and thats what plasma technology is intended for. I know ive laid this out before, but heres the basics 1: low damage to start, ramps up as "flame" is held on the enemy(think laser rifle) 2: weapon generates heat as it vents plasma 3: once overheat is reached, instead of the weapon popping(no seize duration), it simply starts dealing more damage to player than to enemies(allowing players to melt themselves trying to finish off that pesky foe bc srsly a galsent can shrug off a little plasma burns) For an amarr heavy, im not sure i understand what you're saying, but I'll give a preliminary "thumbs down" just bc an autocannon, as any eve player could tell you, belongs on the backseat of a MinJeep, not on the belt of an amarr sentinel. Also, theres already a hmg for heavies, making a heavy heavy machine gun would just displace the existing heavy machine gun. And again, autocannons are already a thing in new eden and they're minmatar tech. I would suggest instead a pulse laser. Likethe kind one may use for mining, but modified for field combat use. Its laser technology which is very amarr, and its a turret ripped off the front of a ship which is very "heavy weapons" (the forge gun is a mining turret too!) the key points for this proposed pulse laser are 1: aiming the gun looses a targeting beam. Could look like the laser rifle but slightly different. Assists the heavy in lining up shots mid-long range(where amarr tech should be focused) but also pretty easily alerts the victims squaddies("holy **** youve got a pulse focusing on you!") 2: holding the trigger sends heavy laser pulses rapidly across the focusing beam(by rapidly i mean faster than shotgun ROF, slower than rail rifle ROF) 3: each pulse sent along the focusing beam generates heat 4: feedback from overheat has a high seize duration(not necessarily as high as the hmg, but similar) and an area of effect that affects everyone resulting from a small explosion in the weapon (may or may not kill the heavy, but be careful not to overheat bc it might kill your logi... Also, maybe an intentional overheat sacrificing yourself to get rid of that scout cutting you up/pile of enemy links around you) Maybe the aoe overheat would only affect everyone outside of pubs since that'd be easier to code and new player friendly. I couldn't care less if the flamethrower or pulse laser looked like a forge gun/hmg at first(like for testing as in before CCPhas a reason to make a model for them) but they'd be cool to have and fearsome too. Rattati if you'd like me to break down for you how exactly all of this is easily doable with existing code and game mechanics, I'll be happy to. And anybody else please give your thoughts on these racially tech correct, racially range correct proposed heavy weapons
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 19	Posted - 2014.11.29 17:19:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: We really need to quit trying to apply EVE ship terminology to DUST weapons and suits. They don't always translate well. Nor can a dropsuit be treated like a ship for balancing purposes. No we don't. Eve is the game we play, whether we're eggers or dustbunnies. The egger technology is the proper template for crrating proper dust tech. We want dust weapons to be balanced and appropriate "in world" and looking to how the tech works for the eggers is a good way to visualize how the tech should work for dust bunnies too. Also, why shouldnt dropsuits be treated essentially like ships? Mostly we just use tgem to fight but thats just bc thats all weve been given to do with them so far. And there certainly arent enough vehicles to treat them like eve ships instead. In fact, dust vehicles have veen stripped down to veing very basic when they ought to ve as varied in application and type as eve ships are but since dropsuits are the more varied means of fulfilling our objective, we ought to have handheld shield rechargers, drones(scout drones sentry drones, repair drones, idc even salvage drones!) and salvage tools. The more i consider your statement, the more i disagree. Keeping eve online tech consistent in eve dust514 only deepens immersion and builds a more fleshed out world to do combat in
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 20	Posted - 2014.12.01 18:09:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Greiv Rabbah wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: We really need to quit trying to apply EVE ship terminology to DUST weapons and suits. They don't always translate well. Nor can a dropsuit be treated like a ship for balancing purposes. No we don't. Eve is the game we play, whether we're eggers or dustbunnies. The egger technology is the proper template for crrating proper dust tech. We want dust weapons to be balanced and appropriate "in world" and looking to how the tech works for the eggers is a good way to visualize how the tech should work for dust bunnies too. Also, why shouldnt dropsuits be treated essentially like ships? Mostly we just use tgem to fight but thats just bc thats all weve been given to do with them so far. And there certainly arent enough vehicles to treat them like eve ships instead. In fact, dust vehicles have veen stripped down to veing very basic when they ought to ve as varied in application and type as eve ships are but since dropsuits are the more varied means of fulfilling our objective, we ought to have handheld shield rechargers, drones(scout drones sentry drones, repair drones, idc even salvage drones!) and salvage tools. The more i consider your statement, the more i disagree. Keeping eve online tech consistent in eve dust514 only deepens immersion and builds a more fleshed out world to do combat in The point. You missed it. Keeping the TECH consistent is fine. Terminology needs to be more flexible. And as far as treating dropsuits like ships? A sentinel is not a megathron, no matter how much someone might cry otherwise. Dropsuits are not ships. They don't act the same way, operate the same way and I don't have to align to something to pick a goddamn direction. You cannot balance DUST dropsuits like EVE ships for that reason alone. Human direct control over all aspects of the activity in the game, like aiming and firing instead of turning on auto attack and letting the game calculate how you do, changes how everything works. So no. Uou cannot balance dropsuits like EVE ships. You can keep the theme, concept and racial flavor. But a scout mk.0 is not a damn Wolf Frigate. Foul mouthed and presumptuous.... The point? I got it. And I disagree. Manual controls vs automatic RPGstyle controls, kind of less of a big deal than you make it out to be. So long as you're a clone injecting boosters, dealing with agents, and heading out from a space station to do battle in the name of one of the four races of new eden, you're connected with everybody else in new eden who does the same and I saw you said terminology but I ignored it because think about it why should the wording be different? Were all in new eden we should(regional discrepancies may apply) basically speak the "same language" that doesn't mean I have the ability to lay down a cluster of scanning probes and go at it until the whole enemy army is visible, it doesn't mean I get some great item when I successfully complete a hack, but all the same I am still playing EVE and so are you. I disagree with you and you'll just have to live with that
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 20	Posted - 2014.12.01 18:27:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Greiv Rabbah wrote: Also, why shouldnt dropsuits be treated essentially like ships? Because operations in microgravity and vacuum versus ops on the ground in atmosphere are two conceptually and practically incompatible methods of operation. nevermind the translation of an autocannon doesn't translate to a machinegun. Autocannons are very different. So it artillery different when applied to ships versus ground artillery. People get so married to EVE Online terminology that they forget this is an INFANTRY game, and there MUST be some variation due to the nature of the content. Are you trolling or are you for cereal here? Bc first, I said essentially, and I assumed comments sense applied, but i guess i have to clarify HEY EVERYBODY I UNDERSTAND NOW THAT SPACE AND GROUND ARE NOT 100% EXACTLY ALIKE. THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING IVE EVER KNOWN AND IM SHAKEN TO MY CORE OVER IT Satisfied with that? Lol. anyway a hmg is not an autocannon but id like to see an autocannon in dust esp as a turret on vehicles. I also dint see why your pointing out that dust is vs is relevant at all. I for one still favor the inclusion of npcs other than turrets(sleeper drones) and agent driven nissions(you know... Like in EVE) that would bring the depth to this game that i would need to see before i got back on the recruiting warpath