DUST Search - [IDEA] Streamlining Factional Warfare

Victor Moody Stahl wrote:

My initial response is twofold:

Firstly, if it gets people into matches faster and more often, then I absolutely would love this. If I'm still earning Amarr LP, then fighting on Caldari soil doesn't bother me much- they are supposedly our allies after all.

Though I'd like to mention that if you fight for the faction that's allied to the one you queued for- like in your example of "Queue Amarr, get dropped into Caldari because allies", then it should, IMO, be a split payout- while you are following the Empire's orders, you're still helping the Caldari. Be nice if they "showed some gratitude", so to speak.

Secondly, and this is the biggie: it's not going to fix disparate queuing. If more people are queuing for Gal/Min than Amarr/Caldari, then it's going to take longer for the Gal/Min players to get into battle than their opposing factions.

As an example, in your OP, you outlined the following queue counts:

Kaeru Nayiri wrote:

# of people queued, ready to fight

Min: 45
Gal: 53
Cal: 15
Am: 4

[obvious snip is obvious]

So, the problem I see is that the Am/Cal side can basically muster a whole team and a little bit of change.

The Gal/Min side can muster roughly six teams worth of players. As it stands most of the time that a "slow deploy" (IE, more than ~3 minutes) happens has one of two causes:

1. There's nobody queuing at all. Mostly this will happen to the Amarr/Caldari side; IE, nobody is queuing for Gal/Min whatsoever.

2. There's not enough people queuing. This generally happens to the Gal/Min side, in the opposite fashion of the above.

In the former, there will be no matches- there's simply not anybody to fight. For the latter, there will be long wait times, and fewer matches for those players.

As to why that is... it mostly comes down to the stereotyping that CCP did with the nations of New Eden; IE, the Amarr are religious zealot slavers, the Caldari are capitalist megacorporate mangs, the Minmatar are the oppressed, downtrodden and enslaved (but now free!) dudes, and the Gallente are the MAXIMUM FREEDOM guys.

Because the Gal/Min side is pretty much "typecast" as the so-called 'good-guys', you end up with fewer people queuing for the Caldari and Amarr. With the Amarr, there's the obvious thing of them being, well, religious zealot slavers. Most people take one look, go "eww", and probably pick MAXIMUM FREEDOM or the supposedly plucky but mostly dirty slave people.

They don't look deeper into the beautifully rich cultural identity of the Amarr, and the noble, steadfast nature of the Empire. At the same time, they never really look deeper into the other empires either- the endemic crime, economic instability, and barely-competent leadership of the Republic, nor the fact that there's a very good reason why the Gallente Federation is described as "no better place to be wealthy, no worse place to be poor".

And the poor Caldari just end up coming off as incredibly bland and boring by comparison, despite having a rich culture and background of their own- though I'll admit that it's hard to make a clip that might be 30 seconds long (I don't actually know, I don't think I've watched the DUST race description clips) actually describe the Caldari as anything but "supercapitalist and also megacorporate".

And this has turned out longer than I originally thought. Oh well, I guess my full thoughts on it are out there.


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Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 216	Posted - 2014.11.26 18:15:00 - [1] - Quote Let matchmaking pool from a faction's allies if there are not enough people to start a match. Example: # of people queued, ready to fight Min: 45 Gal: 53 Cal: 15 Am: 4 Have match making take one of the people in Amarr's queue and let them help Caldari, their allies. At the end of the match, let them still gain standing for the Amarr Empire, as that is who they signed up for. It doesn't matter if the Empire sent them to help their ally, or a home planet, or to invade a Minmatar planet, the choice was made by the Empire so that merc is entitled to Amarr LP. This will allow more games to happen with less stalls, and more people getting the LP they want instead of settling for a faction with faster deploys. Thank you for reading !
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 218	Posted - 2014.11.28 01:58:00 - [2] - Quote Bump for thoughts?
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 219	Posted - 2014.11.28 08:15:00 - [3] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: My initial response is twofold: Firstly, if it gets people into matches faster and more often, then I absolutely would love this. If I'm still earning Amarr LP, then fighting on Caldari soil doesn't bother me much- they are supposedly our allies after all. Though I'd like to mention that if you fight for the faction that's allied to the one you queued for- like in your example of "Queue Amarr, get dropped into Caldari because allies", then it should, IMO, be a split payout- while you are following the Empire's orders, you're still helping the Caldari. Be nice if they "showed some gratitude", so to speak. Secondly, and this is the biggie: it's not going to fix disparate queuing. If more people are queuing for Gal/Min than Amarr/Caldari, then it's going to take longer for the Gal/Min players to get into battle than their opposing factions. As an example, in your OP, you outlined the following queue counts: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: # of people queued, ready to fight Min: 45 Gal: 53 Cal: 15 Am: 4 [obvious snip is obvious] So, the problem I see is that the Am/Cal side can basically muster a whole team and a little bit of change. The Gal/Min side can muster roughly six teams worth of players. As it stands most of the time that a "slow deploy" (IE, more than ~3 minutes) happens has one of two causes: 1. There's nobody queuing at all. Mostly this will happen to the Amarr/Caldari side; IE, nobody is queuing for Gal/Min whatsoever. 2. There's not enough people queuing. This generally happens to the Gal/Min side, in the opposite fashion of the above. In the former, there will be no matches- there's simply not anybody to fight. For the latter, there will be long wait times, and fewer matches for those players. As to why that is... it mostly comes down to the stereotyping that CCP did with the nations of New Eden; IE, the Amarr are religious zealot slavers, the Caldari are capitalist megacorporate mangs, the Minmatar are the oppressed, downtrodden and enslaved (but now free!) dudes, and the Gallente are the MAXIMUM FREEDOM guys. Because the Gal/Min side is pretty much "typecast" as the so-called 'good-guys', you end up with fewer people queuing for the Caldari and Amarr. With the Amarr, there's the obvious thing of them being, well, religious zealot slavers. Most people take one look, go "eww", and probably pick MAXIMUM FREEDOM or the supposedly plucky but mostly dirty slave people. They don't look deeper into the beautifully rich cultural identity of the Amarr, and the noble, steadfast nature of the Empire. At the same time, they never really look deeper into the other empires either- the endemic crime, economic instability, and barely-competent leadership of the Republic, nor the fact that there's a very good reason why the Gallente Federation is described as "no better place to be wealthy, no worse place to be poor". And the poor Caldari just end up coming off as incredibly bland and boring by comparison, despite having a rich culture and background of their own- though I'll admit that it's hard to make a clip that might be 30 seconds long (I don't actually know, I don't think I've watched the DUST race description clips) actually describe the Caldari as anything but "supercapitalist and also megacorporate". And this has turned out longer than I originally thought. Oh well, I guess my full thoughts on it are out there. I agree whole heartedly with all you say here, sir. The only thing I will add is that indeed since there will still be long wait times for Min/Gal, there will be at least 50% more matches (my rough estimate) happening faster and 50% no slower than they already are. My reasoning being that when there really isn't enough people to fight, it can pool from the other team. That's one match out of two that will instance a match whereas currently, no match can be fought at all. This does not solve long queue times, but it elegantly reduces their occurance by about 40-50% every 15-20 minutes when numbers are low. Split payout is a nice suggestion, but I know for a fact LP is a deal breaker for lots of people. Yes, it would be nice if Caldari showed some gratitude to the Amarr mercs present, but they DO. They show their gratitude towards the Empire directly, with whatever deal gets drawn up in the backend. The Empire then takes care of it's mercs in the aftermath. Would that be a reasonable lore explanation? I disagree with a strict faction choice idea, will just split up players even more. This will however make organizing orbital strikes more difficult (much wider range of potentially dangerous space to travel to get Eve ships to the right place), unfortunately.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 222	Posted - 2014.11.28 19:54:00 - [4] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: For the record, I made no comments on "strict faction choice"; AFAIK anything in my post that could be construed that way had more to do with how the races of EVE are stereotyped, with the Caldari coming off as boring and the Amarr as "the bad guys". [...] Actually, Victor, that bit was more of a reply to Meeko. He suggested a means to be more explicit about where someone fights. Sorry I wasn't clear enough the first time around, and thank you for your help !
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:27:00 - [5] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: This idea is similar to that which I came to posting so I go to use this thread to see how it seems. Well my idea is this: what if for match the factions battles we use public players (if is posible, the most veterans available) and pair up with factions (so would be more challenging), those who come by public match receive they payment in isk and those who come by factions would receive they payment in LP. Sounds simple the idea, but if it could be accomplish would reduce the disparity that there is always between Caldari vs Gallente and Amarr vs Minmatar. Sorry for my English; JIAF-PR I wouldn't put public players in FW. FW has to be a choice, not to mention has different mechanics such as friendly fire and eve side orbitals.