My only concern is that this may be prove too much of a nerf if implemented alongside upcoming HP drawbacks. If strafe penalties are all that's added to plates, then this would likely be fine.

No the minimatar heavy dos not need any more nerfs.

I use the minmatar sentinel and heavy often. I use it as support with assault suits to provide fast scary noisy dps in hit and run attacks or flanking maneuvers. I do not duel tank it and sit with logis (they cant keep up!) to hold points that is clearly not the purpose of the minmatar heavy suits. If you nerf turn speed it will be much harder to use the assault forge gun as a 'fastish' moving heavy AV support. This game is full of fast moving circle strafing wallhacking cloaked scouts throwing instagib remote explosives and fast moving long range assault suits.

If a heavy is in the open fighting it needs to be able to track targets if a heavy is in close combat indoors it still needs to be able to track targets. Any changes to turn speed are going to adversely effect the minmatar/caldari heavy's more then their logi bound brick tanked brethren. Rather then nerf all the heavy's we need to look at the types of game play that are not fun to encounter and how those types of play are implemented in map design this applies to all suits weapons vehicles equipment.

Disagreed with and disliked, Sorry mate -- but I've seen you running non-sentinel in pubs...

Keep the HMG as cqc weapon, but nerf HMG turn speed. "Great" stuff.

I have talked about this with him in other threads. So don't want to type out whole walls of text here.

For example heavies used to have a hard cap to turn speed -- it did not go well for them. That's just one example though.

Another is that I don't agree with the recent idea that 'heavies weren't meant to be CQC.' Says who really...that's just an arbitrary opinion being asserted as though it were fact. I could say that 'people weren't meant to play video games' with reasonable arguments but that doesn't make it true.

The idea that heavies are OP is an assertion as well with the only evidence being that they are spammed in PC. Sure it is evidence, but lacks context. Of those OP heavies getting a lot of kills, how many had 1 or 2 proto rep guns on them 99% of the time....the number is probably higher than being accounted for. In that case it may be rep guns that are op and not heavies.

Of course it may BE heavies. I see many assertions and opinions (much like this one) that only discuss part of the issue and do not address (or give a passing allusion to but do not fairly discuss) all the possible factors.

AND i see ideas that result in multiple simultanous changes. That is what I hate the most. CCP makes a change and everyone complains that 'they used a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel' to fix the problem -- then follow it up with large numbers of simultaneous change requests amounting to another sledgehammer fix. Very short sighted.

I could go into more detail but there are various threads on individual points that do so better. Suffice to say I do not agree.

Gotta disagree here Fox.

If you nerf the HMG like that you have to open the operation window. The longer the range the bigger the penalty you can add without gimping the fit.

Playing a CQC fit that's gimped for the close 1/3rd of optimal sucks more than you can comprehend. Been there, done that. It is the opposite of fun.

The only way it works is by making sents ranges and not touching the burst.

Close range dominance is what the burst HMG is for. It actually has power and drawbacks.

I really need to emphasize that Breakin's idea of keeping the Burst with normal turn speed is CRUCIAL.

If I can't have something for CQC in a city map on my Sentinel, I'll biomass my ******* clone. Because I designed my entire skill tree around using the ScP for taking out shields and having better range than the HMG.

I can kill a Caldari scout in CQC with a ScP, but if you nerf ALL the HMGs turn speeds, I probably won't even be able to pop a Cal Assault nevermind the others.

Making the Burst the only one good at turning speed would mean

• It will take more skill than it does now to hold an objective
• Gives Burst heavies a weakness to exploit
• Heavies still have an option for standing by a doorway/wall and pushing back waves of enemies
• If he overheats, the enemy will notice and use it as an opportunity to make the kill
• You can still beat a burst heavy at CQC if you have better gun game

If turn speed happpens range has to increase. Period.

At this point of game I as heavy with forge often win vs HMG heavy only with sidearm.
Same movement pnalties apply, same frames ... and sidearm wins. Little pice of iron in CQC better then HMG. Can you imagine how it is when you use different frame size + EWAR + better weapon?

I would like to suggest taking a small step in the direction that Breakin Stuff (another dedicated HMG Sentinel) has suggested and nerf turn speed on the regular HMG a bit.

The idea is that this would force a HMG Sentinel to switch to a sidearm if a Scout or Assault gets inside of 7m or so, while maintaining their dominance at 8m to 25m. The Sentinel would still be effective in near to mid rang, but have a weakness in CQC which can be exploited by Scouts and Assaults. This would not leave SentinelGÇÖs defenceless in CQC, as the turn speed nerf would be applied to the weapon rather than the suit, and they could still use their sidearm to defend themselves.

Breakin StuffGÇÖs suggestions go far beyond this small change, but I think this would be a good first step to test the waters. I am not sure if I fully agree with his entire proposal, but I am fully prepared to go this far and see how it changes the dynamic.



The turn speed would have to be a hard cap that would be in place regardless of sensitivity settings or control type.



Breakin StuffGÇÖs full proposal. (Again I am not sure that I would go that far.)



The turn speed nerf is just one aspect. I would also like to make some changes to desperation.

Basically I feel the HMG should be a close rang to mid rang weapon with the ability to finish off nearly dead targets out to 60m when crouched. I would like to see a reduction in dispersion in ADS and with a more significant reduction to dispersion when crouched. But to justify that we need a demonstrable weakness.

Therefore I suggest that a HMG should be good at close range (10m) but not so good at in-your-face range (5m), unless you can restrict your opponentGÇÖs movement using a choke point or some other tactic.



I wonder if a turn speed cap can be setup so it is only active when you are holding the trigger down? This would allow Sentinels to maintain some quality of life in being able to look both ways before crossing the street more readily, and would allow a Sentinel to make quick adjustment in CQC by letting their finger off the trigger for a quick adjustment before continuing to fire. This would make CQC combat more possible, but require more player skill than holding the trigger and spinning in a circle when a Nova Knifer gets too close as we can do now.