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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5295
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Posted - 2014.11.24 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm actually fine with them. What I don't understand is why the Sentinel is being given the highest penalty with scouts.
Strafe dodging fire in a fatsuit is hilarious because it doesn't really help.
The only place you can do it is in front of a tank turret up close but that can be fixed by increasing turret rotation speed by 10% and slightly increasing large blaster rate of fire.
I know because I do it a lot. I exploit the firing mechanics of the turrets to make HAV drivers rage.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5320
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Posted - 2014.11.25 05:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Victor Moody Stahl wrote:@everybody but OP:
I think what Breakin (the OP) is getting at is that it doesn't make sense for heavies to get a strafe penalty that's nearly as harsh as a scout's strafe penalty when it's already nearly impossible to strafe glitch in a heavy suit.
What I mean to say is that the whole "wiggledance" that an increasing number of shield light/medframe users are doing actually breaks hit detection, due to the strafe speed that they have. Heavy suit strafe speed is already so slow that it's borderline impossible to wiggledance one's way to victory.
EDIT: It's not that he's saying "heavies don't strafe effectively", he's saying "heavies don't strafe glitch effectively".
DING DING DING DING DING!
WE HAVE A WINNER!
and shields eat a strafe penalty because it's easier to glitch them.
plate movement penalty already affects strafe so the change will double penalize them.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5320
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Posted - 2014.11.25 10:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Gameplay over lore really, I just want Sentinels to have a weakness so that an Assault can stand a chance by headshotting. Right now, the Sentinel wins 99% of the time.
Using a mass calculation (substituting HP for mass), the sentinel simply moves to fast comparative to other frames. Without hurting those that don't armor stack and also making it a chore to play heavies, this was my proposal.
Extenders were thrown into the mix because of the HP=Mass idea. I still don't understand the hubbub, obviously it would be less than plates, and similar as reactives as they give similar HP.
Thanks for responding.
I was more interested in why than having a lore reason. Giving better opportunity for assaults to win is a legit reason IMHO. Making sentinels that much slower when you're adding less comparative mass makes no sense unless it's a game balancing reason.
I don't have problems with changes unless there's no obvious context where it makes sense. Thanks for explaining. Not having to crystal ball answers helps assuage a lot of problems.
I don't necessarily believe it's going to solve anything but what the hell? I'll try anything once.
I will, however, request that ferroscale plates also eat a similar penalty to shields and reactives as it provides similar benefit.
If we miss that one I forsee the problem relocating from shield armor to ferroscale plates.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5325
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Posted - 2014.11.25 12:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Gameplay over lore really, I just want Sentinels to have a weakness so that an Assault can stand a chance by headshotting. Right now, the Sentinel wins 99% of the time.
Using a mass calculation (substituting HP for mass), the sentinel simply moves to fast comparative to other frames. Without hurting those that don't armor stack and also making it a chore to play heavies, this was my proposal.
Extenders were thrown into the mix because of the HP=Mass idea. I still don't understand the hubbub, obviously it would be less than plates, and similar as reactives as they give similar HP. Then make kin cats and myofibs give move speed Rattati...
Hit detection fixed before adding speed boosters.
Once hit detection is unscrewed then I'll be askin for it right next to ya. But we need hit detection and inertia fixes first.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5325
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Posted - 2014.11.25 12:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:.. the only problem was scouts.
patently false statement.
Scouts are the most OBVIOUS.
You can strafe glitch an assault. Particularly the minmatar and caldari. Most people who haven't been doing it sInce beta assume that only scouts can pull this crap.
You can do it in a sentinel to a tank. The difference is that the tank situation isn't glitching. It's exploiting heavy blaster firing mechanics and slow tracking speeds.
But the net effect is the same.
Rattati's strafe penalty will force me to rethink my favorite way to make tank drivers rage.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5330
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is actually why I prefer inertia fixes for dropsuits.
Mention something that might nerf shields and armor on a similar vein and the stupid starts spewing.
Rattati thanks for the response, I consider my question adequately answered.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5330
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Extenders were thrown into the mix because of the HP=Mass idea. I still don't understand the hubbub, obviously it would be less than plates, and similar as reactives as they give similar HP. When extenders give the exact same penalty as armor, why fit anything but armor? Armor gets more HP anyway. This will further drive the armor metagame. Can we please give the infantry shield tankers SOMETHING?!
I love how no one actually reads what he says.
It's not the shields that add weight. Its the shield generator.
Ripley he said shields will receive less penalty than plates with the lighter plates being similar to shields.
But the change is to kill strafe glitching not nerf shields. Shield suits can glitch easily.
It is a strafe penalty, not a regular movement penalty.
Strafe glitching needs to be killed with fire.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5332
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Posted - 2014.11.25 17:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:
Having the same penalty for two different modules only encourages that both modules be used since you are already taking the hit for one of them. It will encourage even more brick-tank style play and not diversify the module usage like CCP is hoping for. Instead they need to come up with a different penalty for the shields. That way if you do both armor AND shields you get two different penalties and not just one that you can overcome by being a better statistician than CCP is.
yeah.
I predict the people who believe that dual bricking will be the best way to go after the change are going to have a very bad day
I remember dual tanking with 10% movement penalties on armor. Hilarity will ensue because penalties do NOT have stacking penalties.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5332
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 17:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
because he never tried putting four proto plates on before the speed penalty was reduced.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5337
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Posted - 2014.11.25 21:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Jadd Hatchen wrote:
Having the same penalty for two different modules only encourages that both modules be used since you are already taking the hit for one of them. It will encourage even more brick-tank style play and not diversify the module usage like CCP is hoping for. Instead they need to come up with a different penalty for the shields. That way if you do both armor AND shields you get two different penalties and not just one that you can overcome by being a better statistician than CCP is.
yeah. I predict the people who believe that dual bricking will be the best way to go after the change are going to have a very bad day I remember dual tanking with 10% movement penalties on armor. Hilarity will ensue because penalties do NOT have stacking penalties. I know they don't however once you reach a point it no longer matters as much if you are a fraction slower than you were before.
40% loss of movement speed is not a fraction. Plate movement speed penalties were additive, not multiplicative.
this means 4 -10% movement plates = 40% speed loss.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5347
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Posted - 2014.11.25 23:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
shotguns don't benefit from aim assist just like FG and HMG
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5348
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Posted - 2014.11.26 08:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
@imp smash
No sentinels weren't designed as the CQC kings.
They got saddled with the "tank" label in the tank/dps/healer trinity.
They got made as they are because people raged that the very concept of an HMG with a good effective range was inherently unfair. They screamed and ranted and raged that the HMG needed to be point-blank only.
They got their wish.
So now because the high HP low DPS only works against mobs programmed to attack the tank for whatever reason the HMG has continually had to be dialled up to insane levels because everyone insists that sentinels need to be for CQC and utterly ineffective at longer ranges.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5378
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Posted - 2014.11.27 07:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
I saw how they wound up tgere In beta and followed the development process.
They used to have range similar to rifles and a turn speed penalty that made them vulnerable to CQC.
They neutered the range and then realized that they had rendered the suits nonfunctional so they normalized turn speeds.
I don't talk out my ass usually.
Facts and such are far easier to troll with. No one expects facts.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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