DUST Search - Advanced tanks?

Draden Brohiem wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Draden Brohiem wrote:

With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts.

Thoughts?

Yes.

Yet there have been so many nerfs to Vehicles in each hotfix that i doubt adding one more low slot to a madrugar or one more high to a gunlogi would be game breaking. Reversing might be more fun, a 3-4 layout for a pro armor tank or a 4-3 layout for a pro shield tank.

As long as people want thier easy-mode AV its not going to happen.

easy mode AV?

I'm sorry how is a gunnlogi that takes a full magazine and a half to kill with an assault forge "easy?"

Just curious.

With proto shield hardeners that is totally legit. You must be use to firing forge on sicas? A gunlogi with complex shield and complex shield hardener can take alot of damage. If I do two complex shield I'm at 5300 shield with a hardener! If I do one complex shield with double complex hardeners I can take damage all day especially if said tanker has his optimization to 5, as I do, then his hardeners take turns recharging! A lil solid maneuverability, and he's a tough nut to crack.

A tank like that can easily cost 500k isk! It should be hard to take down to some degree if the tanker is conservative. I've taken on multiple tanks in my sica, and know the difference. A swarmer out of no where in or near enemy territory can end that fight quickly. A forge shot while your shield is down can really bust you up! Two tanks, gunlogi/ madruger combo, against a sica is almost insta gib unless the sica has proto mods. Even then you're on the back foot.

AV is now very viable, but I think when players hear "advanced tank" they think "enforcer", and instantly go "oh hell no"?! That's a very justifiable response, but what I am referring to will still be able to be dropped.

Terrain and situation is usually the problem in most AV v Tank fights. Situation being that most of the time two sicas or somas could take out that problematic gunlogi with blasters, but the team will not have a decent tanker or two about?! If they do he will get no AV support, or even an eyes on assessment of the situation from the ground. Most players that run AV or ground assault in general don't even understand tank anatomy?!

They see two tanks going at it, and are just glad he's occupied. Helping that friendly tank is the last thing on their minds. In turn most tankers refuse to help ground troops because they usually get ambushed by AV or enemy tanks?! Seems like none of the ground troops see the swarm carrier to shoot him, and forge gunners make easy targets for scouts and assaults yet they basically go untouched for a large portion of the match?!

Sorry this is so long, but example one:

An outside area is being hit by scouts, and without comms I can see the kill feed saying -CRG-3, K5, Z-28 NK, etc. I will be running a railgun on a sica frame taking down dropships and lavs near home point. Home point is good so I quickly call in a sica w/blaster, scanner, and CRU. I recall the railgun, and head to enemy home to offer support. The scouts are either scanned and killed by me, or heavies spawn on the CRU and merc them?! I then start getting swarmed by AV, and know it's time to role. When I leave the point is again re-hacked??? By who? The swarmers with subs??? If I stayed I would've been destroyed easily as it is a cheap tank setup, but I would atleast expect a guy with an hmg to take out a scout with swarms?!

There are a lot more examples of this type of situation that makes competent players go "wtf" Shocked

??!!!! Why they couldn't kill an already injured scout with swarms and AV nades I don't understand, but I'm not hanging around to find out?! They may have been saying "why did the tank leave?". Well that's why! You somehow lost a fight with a guy toting a swarm launcher who only had a proto sidearm at best?!

I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...

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Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD RUST415 12	Posted - 2014.11.22 16:33:00 - [1] - Quote With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts?
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 13888	Posted - 2014.11.22 16:55:00 - [2] - Quote With AV like it is now? No. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
LowerThan SnakeShip The Scope Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:16:00 - [3] - Quote i think if you have an advanced or proto version there size and speed should change too giving a drawback to taking a big op hav is that maybe they could not enter most city plugins as they would be too big so there threat is mainly to other vehicles. i think it would be nice to see maybe dual rail or blaster. or maybe even have if you bring out an advanced or proto tank it would take a user to drive and a different user to operate the turret. lets be real if someone comes out with three set of remotes no tank is surviving. i think the basic principle i am getting at is if the majority of vehicle users want something then make it but make it require plenty of sp , isk , and teamwork. this way it is not spamed but fun for all. ( battleships in eve are op right , how many of those do you see running solo in null sec)
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 435	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:18:00 - [4] - Quote Draden Brohiem wrote: With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts? Yes. Yet there have been so many nerfs to Vehicles in each hotfix that i doubt adding one more low slot to a madrugar or one more high to a gunlogi would be game breaking. Reversing might be more fun, a 3-4 layout for a pro armor tank or a 4-3 layout for a pro shield tank. As long as people want thier easy-mode AV its not going to happen. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
LowerThan SnakeShip The Scope Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:24:00 - [5] - Quote my thought is an advance hav should have a different hull and more potential ehp and a coaxial turret higher damage potential yes higher "tank" yes slower yes harder to hit small target yes require alot of sp and skill yes easy button no
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5246	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:45:00 - [6] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Draden Brohiem wrote: With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts? Yes. Yet there have been so many nerfs to Vehicles in each hotfix that i doubt adding one more low slot to a madrugar or one more high to a gunlogi would be game breaking. Reversing might be more fun, a 3-4 layout for a pro armor tank or a 4-3 layout for a pro shield tank. As long as people want thier easy-mode AV its not going to happen. easy mode AV? I'm sorry how is a gunnlogi that takes a full magazine and a half to kill with an assault forge "easy?" Just curious. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Hector Carson BLACK MAGES ACADEMY 86	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:50:00 - [7] - Quote what would they call the Advanced tanks? I do agree with you they need to come out with a new class of tank preferably based around the other 2 races that don't have a tank of there own. Scout shoots Sentinel like a BOSS.........with a Bolt Pistol
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3567	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:14:00 - [8] - Quote Higher Tiered vehicles? Not needed. Specialty Vehicles that have upsides and downsides? Totally. Join the conversation: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180729&find=unread Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2398	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:23:00 - [9] - Quote Draden Brohiem wrote: With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts? Just more CPU/PG? No slots? Infantry get more slots the higher tier they go, why shouldn't tanks? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Hector Carson BLACK MAGES ACADEMY 86	Posted - 2014.11.22 19:47:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Higher Tiered vehicles? Not needed. Specialty Vehicles that have upsides and downsides? Totally. Join the conversation: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180729&find=unread at least give the other race vehicles such as Minmatar and Amarr these 2 being the only races to not have them. Unless they plan on adding incursion on Dust (which is highly unlikely) Scout shoots Sentinel like a BOSS.........with a Bolt Pistol

Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD RUST415 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:06:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Draden Brohiem wrote: With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts? Yes. Yet there have been so many nerfs to Vehicles in each hotfix that i doubt adding one more low slot to a madrugar or one more high to a gunlogi would be game breaking. Reversing might be more fun, a 3-4 layout for a pro armor tank or a 4-3 layout for a pro shield tank. As long as people want thier easy-mode AV its not going to happen. easy mode AV? I'm sorry how is a gunnlogi that takes a full magazine and a half to kill with an assault forge "easy?" Just curious. With proto shield hardeners that is totally legit. You must be use to firing forge on sicas? A gunlogi with complex shield and complex shield hardener can take alot of damage. If I do two complex shield I'm at 5300 shield with a hardener! If I do one complex shield with double complex hardeners I can take damage all day especially if said tanker has his optimization to 5, as I do, then his hardeners take turns recharging! A lil solid maneuverability, and he's a tough nut to crack. A tank like that can easily cost 500k isk! It should be hard to take down to some degree if the tanker is conservative. I've taken on multiple tanks in my sica, and know the difference. A swarmer out of no where in or near enemy territory can end that fight quickly. A forge shot while your shield is down can really bust you up! Two tanks, gunlogi/ madruger combo, against a sica is almost insta gib unless the sica has proto mods. Even then you're on the back foot. AV is now very viable, but I think when players hear "advanced tank" they think "enforcer", and instantly go "oh hell no"?! That's a very justifiable response, but what I am referring to will still be able to be dropped. Terrain and situation is usually the problem in most AV v Tank fights. Situation being that most of the time two sicas or somas could take out that problematic gunlogi with blasters, but the team will not have a decent tanker or two about?! If they do he will get no AV support, or even an eyes on assessment of the situation from the ground. Most players that run AV or ground assault in general don't even understand tank anatomy?! They see two tanks going at it, and are just glad he's occupied. Helping that friendly tank is the last thing on their minds. In turn most tankers refuse to help ground troops because they usually get ambushed by AV or enemy tanks?! Seems like none of the ground troops see the swarm carrier to shoot him, and forge gunners make easy targets for scouts and assaults yet they basically go untouched for a large portion of the match?! Sorry this is so long, but example one: An outside area is being hit by scouts, and without comms I can see the kill feed saying -CRG-3, K5, Z-28 NK, etc. I will be running a railgun on a sica frame taking down dropships and lavs near home point. Home point is good so I quickly call in a sica w/blaster, scanner, and CRU. I recall the railgun, and head to enemy home to offer support. The scouts are either scanned and killed by me, or heavies spawn on the CRU and merc them?! I then start getting swarmed by AV, and know it's time to role. When I leave the point is again re-hacked??? By who? The swarmers with subs??? If I stayed I would've been destroyed easily as it is a cheap tank setup, but I would atleast expect a guy with an hmg to take out a scout with swarms?! There are a lot more examples of this type of situation that makes competent players go "wtf" ??!!!! Why they couldn't kill an already injured scout with swarms and AV nades I don't understand, but I'm not hanging around to find out?! They may have been saying "why did the tank leave?". Well that's why! You somehow lost a fight with a guy toting a swarm launcher who only had a proto sidearm at best?!
LowerThan SnakeShip The Scope Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:21:00 - [12] - Quote i used to love the days when a full proto hav was over a million ad ads were 900k back then scrubs didnt bother trying to bring one out and you sure didnt see the sky filled with ads either
Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD RUST415 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:22:00 - [13] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Draden Brohiem wrote: With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts? Just more CPU/PG? No slots? Infantry get more slots the higher tier they go, why shouldn't tanks? Slots sure, but from standard to advanced I wouldn't add slots just yet. My reason is that if you add more slots at advanced you would add even more at proto. Thus you have the enforcer that everyone fears the reincarnation of?! You must take CCP history into account. They can OP something quick only to nerf bat the brakes off of it?! What we want is a really slow and gradual entry of the advanced and proto tanks. Not another 1.7?! As it stands standard tanks can fit proto mods or proto turrets, but not all at once right? Advanced tanks should have the CPU/PG advantage that the standards don't have with small bonuses to racial fire power against vehicles. Maybe better passive scan ability on the slower armored madruger type advanced tanks so they see other vehicles like jihad jeeps, other tanks, and dropships. Advanced shield tanks could get a bonus to ammo carried on small turrets, or module duration. We don't want to keep requesting AV nerfs, super tanks, and insta fixes?! We want to make sure that AV is viable enough to kill, and tanks are worth the price tag on them. The problem before was blaster accuracy, and tank spam. Now you can still blast a troop or two, but not like before (I.e. duna). I use my blaster setups to help the infantry push forward on entrenched positions. Scanner, CRU, small misilence or rail turret, and my bulk as cover. Any smart squad of troops should capitalize on this especially with passive team scans!
Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD RUST415 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:23:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Higher Tiered vehicles? Not needed. Specialty Vehicles that have upsides and downsides? Totally. Join the conversation: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=180729&find=unread Thanks! o7
ImIvan 49	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:57:00 - [15] - Quote No. Do you really think that a militia swarm can take out a militia tank? Its pretty dang hard to do. Why must you use prototypes?
Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD RUST415 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:22:00 - [16] - Quote ImIvan wrote: No. Do you really think that a militia swarm can take out a militia tank? Its pretty dang hard to do. You haven't been swarming long have you? A militia swarm operates as militia gear should. So does a militia tank! A standard swarm or assault swarm with proficiency 5 and reload at atleast 3 will take a sica or soma out! Situation and terrain dictates! With high ground and infantry protection it is totally possible! If you run a militia swarm you have no intention of taking a tank of any kind out. You sir, are bullsh*tting! You're too lazy to spec into AV or tank, and want someone else to do the work for you?! I can not take you serious with this mentality. If you meant to solo a decent soma you would have grabbed your CBR-7 w/prof 5 and reload 3, and sent him packing on fire! We will not except the thought that because some cheap skate doesn't spec into AV, (as any good groind troop does) or runs militia gear to save isk. That we shouldn't consider advanced lvl tanks! I have proto mods and turrets, but choose to run cheaper mods and turrets on standard frames due to cost primarily. Should we take proto mods and turrets out because I'm on an isk grind currently?? If you don't have solid AV then guess what you should do for your team, squad, and yourself sir? I bet a wirykomi swarms prof 5, reload 5, and ammo 5 can kill an advanced tank from a good position! So can Ishukone forge! If new players can not do it this goes back to match making, not the gear?! Why are players who left the academy yesterday trying to swarm my prolitia gunlogi with militia swarms? Ofcourse it's absurd! He shouldn't even be in this match?! Also, why is he doing it solo?? Why is a up and coming tanker in his sica bring insta-ganked by wirykomi swarms?? There's your problem! Not the gear itself?!
Draden Brohiem D3ATH CARD RUST415 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:49:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: With AV like it is now? No. I wouldn't consider more slots or crazy bonuses until proto. Advanced should simply fit better with same slot amount, but options for different layouts. 2/3, 3/2, 1/3, 3/1, etc. Would like to see the same for dropsuits in future. Different slot layouts for Different dropsuits in the same race, but with different categorization. Assault G-1 series- gore wreck dropsuit. Slot layout: 2/2 with a bonus to precision. Assault G-1 series brutor! Slot layout 2/4, but lacks a sidearm. For example. Tanks, dropships, and dropsuits should not be so limited in their variants. Variation should be encouraged, and balanced out. The advanced tanks should simply fit better than the standard counterparts. No crazy added slots and bonuses?! Right now gunlogi's and madruger's are prolitia?! Not truly proto?! They should not be either. If we added advanced level tanks they should be able to fit the mods of the standard prolitia variants better, cost more, but shouldn't be all stacked requiring another AV buff to take out?! They should be virtually the same with added CPU/PG. That would leave room for the proto tanks to be introduced, and harder to kill, but at much steeper prices without making them OP. Buffing AV to take out OP tanks make standard tanks victims?!
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 480	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:57:00 - [18] - Quote Draden Brohiem wrote: ImIvan wrote: No. Do you really think that a militia swarm can take out a militia tank? Its pretty dang hard to do. You haven't been swarming long have you? A militia swarm operates as militia gear should. So does a militia tank! A standard swarm or assault swarm with proficiency 5 and reload at atleast 3 will take a sica or soma out! Situation and terrain dictates! With high ground and infantry protection it is totally possible! If you run a militia swarm you have no intention of taking a tank of any kind out. You sir, are bullshtting! You're too lazy to spec into AV or tank, and want someone else to do the work for you?! I can not take you serious with this mentality. If you meant to solo a decent soma you would have grabbed your CBR-7 w/prof 5 and reload 3, and sent him packing on fire! We will not except the thought that because some cheap skate doesn't spec into AV, (as any good groind troop does) or runs militia gear to save isk. That we shouldn't consider advanced lvl tanks! I have proto mods and turrets, but choose to run cheaper mods and turrets on standard frames due to cost primarily. Should we take proto mods and turrets out because I'm on an isk grind currently?? If you don't have solid AV then guess what you should do for your team, squad, and yourself sir? I bet a wirykomi swarms prof 5, reload 5, and ammo 5 can kill an advanced tank from a good position! So can Ishukone forge! If new players can not do it this goes back to match making, not the gear?! Why are players who left the academy yesterday trying to swarm my prolitia gunlogi with militia swarms? Ofcourse it's absurd! He shouldn't even be in this match?! Also, why is he doing it solo?? Why is a up and coming tanker in his sica being insta-ganked by wirykomi swarms?? There's your problem! Not the gear itself?! EXACTLY! BULLSHTTING!!! Who the hell brings out militia swarms when they see a tank?? Some A hole with no AV capabilities that's who!!! Do us all a favor, and quit the match early so we can get some real help in! I AV well, and the thought of the enforcer tank frightens the sht out of everybody! However, if they were introduced not so OP I wouldn't mind the challenge. I see alot of guys (tankers) talking about dual large turrets, crazy bonuses, and giant lasers?! HLL NO!!! What you have suggested is something we have discussed before about keeping them balanced and humble. I can support the idea of this. Read again all! "Anybody order chaos?"
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 100	Posted - 2014.11.22 23:59:00 - [19] - Quote Why stop there ..There are proto variants of av.....WHERE IS MY ******* GOD DAMN SAGARIS Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14941	Posted - 2014.11.23 00:14:00 - [20] - Quote Draden Brohiem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Draden Brohiem wrote: With AV like it is now would this be so bad? Just want the opinion of the community. Currently the standard HAV's are standard hulls trying to futily fit proto mods and turrets?! Advanced hull need no CCP release type OP attached?! They just need more CPU/PG than their standard counterparts. Thoughts? Yes. Yet there have been so many nerfs to Vehicles in each hotfix that i doubt adding one more low slot to a madrugar or one more high to a gunlogi would be game breaking. Reversing might be more fun, a 3-4 layout for a pro armor tank or a 4-3 layout for a pro shield tank. As long as people want thier easy-mode AV its not going to happen. easy mode AV? I'm sorry how is a gunnlogi that takes a full magazine and a half to kill with an assault forge "easy?" Just curious. With proto shield hardeners that is totally legit. You must be use to firing forge on sicas? A gunlogi with complex shield and complex shield hardener can take alot of damage. If I do two complex shield I'm at 5300 shield with a hardener! If I do one complex shield with double complex hardeners I can take damage all day especially if said tanker has his optimization to 5, as I do, then his hardeners take turns recharging! A lil solid maneuverability, and he's a tough nut to crack. A tank like that can easily cost 500k isk! It should be hard to take down to some degree if the tanker is conservative. I've taken on multiple tanks in my sica, and know the difference. A swarmer out of no where in or near enemy territory can end that fight quickly. A forge shot while your shield is down can really bust you up! Two tanks, gunlogi/ madruger combo, against a sica is almost insta gib unless the sica has proto mods. Even then you're on the back foot. AV is now very viable, but I think when players hear "advanced tank" they think "enforcer", and instantly go "oh hell no"?! That's a very justifiable response, but what I am referring to will still be able to be dropped. Terrain and situation is usually the problem in most AV v Tank fights. Situation being that most of the time two sicas or somas could take out that problematic gunlogi with blasters, but the team will not have a decent tanker or two about?! If they do he will get no AV support, or even an eyes on assessment of the situation from the ground. Most players that run AV or ground assault in general don't even understand tank anatomy?! They see two tanks going at it, and are just glad he's occupied. Helping that friendly tank is the last thing on their minds. In turn most tankers refuse to help ground troops because they usually get ambushed by AV or enemy tanks?! Seems like none of the ground troops see the swarm carrier to shoot him, and forge gunners make easy targets for scouts and assaults yet they basically go untouched for a large portion of the match?! Sorry this is so long, but example one: An outside area is being hit by scouts, and without comms I can see the kill feed saying -CRG-3, K5, Z-28 NK, etc. I will be running a railgun on a sica frame taking down dropships and lavs near home point. Home point is good so I quickly call in a sica w/blaster, scanner, and CRU. I recall the railgun, and head to enemy home to offer support. The scouts are either scanned and killed by me, or heavies spawn on the CRU and merc them?! I then start getting swarmed by AV, and know it's time to role. When I leave the point is again re-hacked??? By who? The swarmers with subs??? If I stayed I would've been destroyed easily as it is a cheap tank setup, but I would atleast expect a guy with an hmg to take out a scout with swarms?! There are a lot more examples of this type of situation that makes competent players go "wtf" ??!!!! Why they couldn't kill an already injured scout with swarms and AV nades I don't understand, but I'm not hanging around to find out?! They may have been saying "why did the tank leave?". Well that's why! You somehow lost a fight with a guy toting a swarm launcher who only had a proto sidearm at best?! Honestly no a tank at a standard level should be able to attain roughly 10K EHP against explosive and kinetic AV options like the Gunnlogi can. 5300 Shields 1.4 = 7120 71201.2 = 8554 8554 + (15000.8) = 9754 EHP vs armour effective options. That EHP value is frankly too much considering that these anti vehicle options were specifically in mind with countering our HAV in mind, in practice between 1-3 AV shots should be enough to effectively counter or destroy a standard tier vehicle. This then allows room for ADV tier HAV to come into their own specified roles Enforcers= Self Propelled Artillery Marauder = Infantry Tanks Black Ops= Command and EWAR units I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...*

Nirwanda Vaughns 971	Posted - 2014.11.23 00:16:00 - [21] - Quote been there, done that, got removed from game. how fun a ride dust has been Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5256	Posted - 2014.11.23 02:29:00 - [22] - Quote Draden Brohiem wrote: Random stuff I think you misunderstood my question. It wasn't "How is this possible?" It wasn't "Why is this a thing?" It was "How the hell can people say AV is easy mode with things like this?" Bluntly I have fun trying to slaughter gunnlogis with 5,000 HP +. Two-shotting a sica sh*tfit feels too much like a mugging. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


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