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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1965	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:55:00 - [1] - Quote firstly Rattatti i do appreciate your efforts but i feel this will be an in direct nerf to the logi role.. currently players can get like up to 12 varients feilded on hives and uplinks and prox mines[1] and RE[2] basically.. drop an "uplink" (1/2) thats fine.. drop a "stable uplink" (1/2) thats fine.. now drop an R9 uplink.. that is fine too.. however once you try drop the second R9 the "Uplink" you first dropped would pop.. SO regardless of meta we should be limited to 3 max active at any one time.. this makes them more valuable on the field and cuts down on spam. hives. the "best" i saw was 3 max active 4 carried.. only needs to apply to varients too although separation between ammo hives and triage hives (possably a complex problem to solve as there is 3 types, hive, rep hive and pure triage hive) uplinks.. again best i saw was like 3 max active 4 carried at -21.xx% spawn modifier.. so again.. make the cap per player be 3 uplinks active at any one time (this could possably be the easyest one to fix) now for prox and RE.. as for prox they need a complete rework as they are only effective in larger numbers.. maybe limit max carried/active to 6 per meta but do the meta tweak as i outlined earlier so you cannot have 6x standard+6x advanced+ 6x pro.. regarless of meta 6 should be a players limit active. as for RE.. aside from the usually RE frisbees i dont often see them deployed in more then 4 unless its a jihad jeep where they slap as many on the jeep as possable to try take out a hav which is a little too powerful for the AV on the field.. i suggest leaving as is for now.. so in conclusion Player max active limits regardless of meta level = problem solved. new system player 1 max active = 3x uplink 3x ammo hive (maybe make triage hives count as seperate hives) 3x triage hive 6x prox(pending tweek/balance/buff) old system player 1 max active = 12+ uplinks 12+ hives 12+ prox 12 RE(not much of a problem as of yet) so my system is easy.. fair and cuts down on clutter by two thirds. so there you go rattatti problem solved, job well done, ship it and have a beer. no need for some over complicated "bandwidth system" as logi will need to still be able to slap down up to 3 uplinks and 3 hives/triage and maybe some prox on the road for good measure. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1967	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:05:00 - [2] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: I agree. As much as the bandwidth system would be great, it is not nearly as simple as EVE Drones (ie, equipment is not about direct damage) and I was also thinking along the same lines as you. A limit to each type of equipment, as you listed, would be much simpler and get the same results as intended. My only concern is how to balance Flux Uplinks with standard variants: Flux's have faster spawns, but the same volume, perhaps reduce number of spawns to compensate, then we'd have: standard, medium spawns and speed; Quantum, more spawns, maybe slower than standard?; Flux, less spawns, but faster. indeed the problem with the old system was being able to have the "max active" of every meta level as opposed to a hard limit of 3 active imposed on the player regardless of meta level.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1969	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:12:00 - [3] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: this will just leave pubs without uplinks and hives more equipment less usage is the solution example: 20 uplinks can be carried that allow 3 spawns only, same restrictions we currently have it wont as every single player would be open to fielding 3x of a type of equipment. i have played/logi'd long enough to know there isnt that much spam of equipment except around silos and on roofs.. and with the proposed Orbital changes/improvments those will be a thing of the past soon enough.. the only problem is maybe because of how under used logi is (almost as under used as commando) because of many reasons that can possably contribute to a lack of equipment on the field.. and no the current problem is too much equipment fielded on the map/in tight areas which causes lag so leave equipment as they are except make it so players can only have a max of 3 uplinks at any one time which iirc some uplinks + amarr logi can get like 40 or spawns before they pop.. see what im getting at? ALSO.. i have damn well carried/pushed pubs and newberrys to victory or atleast a close defeat with ONLY 2 UPLINKS.. R9s so i personally stand as a testiment to have never abused meta-level spamming to win games or make the WP i used to in public matches [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1976	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:43:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Edit: As you say, the issue is not having three uplinks and three hives down at once, but being able to spam out up to 12 x 16 = 192 potential uplinks in a battle (obviously rarely done, more like forty in your typical spam situation.) By limiting each type, rather than total, we can have Logistics still benefitting from bringing out various equipment types. Essentially, uplinks are very much a drop-and-forget tool. Maintenance is minimal but uplinks are a necessary part of a battle, meaning switching equipment would negatively impact the ability to fight effectively. indeed.. so atleast my way it is 3x16=48.. now that is a massive improvement is it not?.. that is a whole 144 less equipment on the field.. and i doubt i have ever seen even half that on a field at any one time anyway except certain maps.. around a supply depo. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1980	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:30:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This doesn't solution doesn't even begin to solve tourist logis (logis that throw crap down then swap to something else like a heavy) or as mentioned above other classes from role stomping on logis. it eases the equipment spam and if some one wishes to use one suit to drop equipment then switch to another then they shoudl be allowed to do so! remember CCP said the game was supposed to allow us to play how WE WANTED.. i mean i logi 99% of the time.. but do sometimes switch to minmando for anti vehicle for a short time, then back to logi.. btu what i have seen is equipment spam is usually at depo's and on roofs.. roofs will easly be blapped with the new solo orbitals/ECM orbitals ones in enclosed areas possably ECM able not sure about normal OBs.. or we could just remove silos from the middle zone of the maps makeing everyone have to carry hives and put them down anyway.. so basically.. my way is helping ease the lag of equipment spam while not indirectly nerfing logis even more. try being a logi for a year and tell me you wouldnt agree with me. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1980	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:32:00 - [6] - Quote dwater wrote: terrible idea why should want to use a logi when my scout can put down the same number of links? well thats the point, that is yoru choice weather to use a logi suit or a scout to drop those uplinks... the only change is you can only have 3 uplinks active at any time regardless of suit.. still not 100% figured out on hives yet but getting there. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1980	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:41:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This doesn't solution doesn't even begin to solve tourist logis (logis that throw crap down then swap to something else like a heavy) or as mentioned above other classes from role stomping on logis. it eases the equipment spam and if some one wishes to use one suit to drop equipment then switch to another then they shoudl be allowed to do so! remember CCP said the game was supposed to allow us to play how WE WANTED.. i mean i logi 99% of the time.. but do sometimes switch to minmando for anti vehicle for a short time, then back to logi.. btu what i have seen is equipment spam is usually at depo's and on roofs.. roofs will easly be blapped with the new solo orbitals/ECM orbitals ones in enclosed areas possably ECM able not sure about normal OBs.. or we could just remove silos from the middle zone of the maps makeing everyone have to carry hives and put them down anyway.. so basically.. my way is helping ease the lag of equipment spam while not indirectly nerfing logis even more. try being a logi for a year and tell me you wouldnt agree with me. It still doesn't solve the issue; and yes ccp said you could play like you wanted. I rather have a bandwidth expansion module rather than your system. You system will be a bit more complicated than the current bandwidth system (especially its every type of equipment getting bandwidth instead of all deployables getting a shared one) no my system would be easly implimented.. bandwidth if you ever played eve was somewhat restricting and only worked because drones were just "attack".. and i do not want to nerf my already pathetically low ehp as a logi just to fit more bandwidth.. like i said.. adding bandwidth just causes the logi role to finally die... logi is only barely higher is use then commando.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1980	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:50:00 - [8] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: This doesn't solution doesn't even begin to solve tourist logis (logis that throw crap down then swap to something else like a heavy) or as mentioned above other classes from role stomping on logis. Now, my issue with statements like these are the implication that putting down equipment as a logi (as needed, you know, links in say domination are kind of a must unless you want to lose) but spawning back in as another role after dying to better contribute to the team, if the situation calls for it, (say, there might in fact be no need for a logi at that time and pressing need for a heavy to defend a point) is somehow inherently wrong and something that needs to be fixed. Yes, the people who go to a supply depot to spam 3 fits' worth of links and hives in a 10 meter radius before switching to heir l33t slayer fit can go burn in hell, but that is most certainly not what all of us do, and I for one am getting tired of having my main (but not only) role being spat on because of that sort of asshattery. And honestly, the 'role stomping' business? Increase equipment fitting cost even more, but majorly buff the logi fitting bonus, bam, solved. (Yes, I am being facetious, why do you ask?) excelent points! but i dissagree.. if we were limited to a limited number of "max active" at any one time it would as my match earlier pointed out lead to 144 less equipment on the field but thats only if every single person on our team was to place 12+ of EVERYTHING(usually around supply depos) i mean i would be happy with my "meta-limited max active" idea i outlined in my OP.. i mean i have never used more then 3 uplinks.. as for hives since there is ammo and triage hives i may think that hives need a "max active" of 4 so even caldari logi can still use rep hives and ammo hives as per their racial bonus!.. this would be limited to the PLAYER regardless of SUIT.. ie should a scout wish to place 3 uplinks and 3 to 4 hives and then switch to a sentinel or assault.. so it still gives equipment to players to use but they cannot spam it constantly and in large quantity around supply depos anymore.. even if they tried to as i said it would be liek 2 thirds less spam/lag then currently.. and yet ignarent plebs who dont know bout logi just cannot fathom the depth of the role we play and all the managment we have to try do [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1994	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:50:00 - [9] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I don't understand why you continue to believe bandwidth will nerf logis. It's going to nerf everyone else's use of equipment EXCEPT for logis and it's going to make logis KING of equipment FINALLY. Add to that they are also going to adjust and buff the logi skill bonuses. thats not the point, any logi worth their EOM paycheck will tell you they often change suit to combad a threat on the ever changing battle.. i flip to minmando send a few swarms at a target to drive them off and flip back to logi.. basically if this bandwidth NERF happens the only viable logi will be amarr logi in a god aweful fit of swarm sidearm (obligatory tank moduals) injector rep drop/ammo all other logi would die off and the logi role would be even more under populated then it is now.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1994	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:53:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Never say something is easy to implement until you know how to code it. Just because something is simple in your head doesn't mean it's going to be trivial to make a program to implement it. well it would be easier then adding bandwidth to ALL suits and then added bandwidth to ALL equipment and then balancing it all [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1997	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:18:00 - [11] - Quote Slave of MORTE wrote: Neither seem like a great solution especially when applied to pc..how many players would have to run dedicated spawns in order for pc ..at least 1 per objective......yall enjoy that get like 3 or 4 logi then and stop useing the OP FOTM of scouts and to a lesser extent sents [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1997	Posted - 2014.11.19 00:20:00 - [12] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I don't understand why you continue to believe bandwidth will nerf logis. It's going to nerf everyone else's use of equipment EXCEPT for logis and it's going to make logis KING of equipment FINALLY. Add to that they are also going to adjust and buff the logi skill bonuses. thats not the point, any logi worth their EOM paycheck will tell you they often change suit to combad a threat on the ever changing battle.. i flip to minmando send a few swarms at a target to drive them off and flip back to logi.. basically if this bandwidth NERF happens the only viable logi will be amarr logi in a god aweful fit of swarm sidearm (obligatory tank moduals) injector rep drop/ammo all other logi would die off and the logi role would be even more under populated then it is now.. The moment you are not deployed in a specific frame you are no longer playing a role and should no longer gain the specialist benefits thereof. Want to swap to a heavy suit and wade into the thick of it? Sure thing, but you don't get to do that with the eWar skill buffs of the scout or the BW profile of the Logi, if you want either of those things you have to be on the battlefield in the suit related to that role. Now will Logi need some love after this change? Sure, because they need some love now and this change won't eliminate that need. But is this a nerf to actually playing support? Nope, it is in fact a buff. Also regarding valid team contribution and EoM earnings (not either but both), speaking as one of the longest running support logi in the game I say - CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. Maybe I'll be given some more reason to run my Cal or Amarr frames for longer now, but I can already say with ease that the Min Logi will still be my go to fit as it has been since before there were racial suits in the game. Cheers, Cross logi is a mindset not just a frame.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2000	Posted - 2014.11.19 03:11:00 - [13] - Quote Zindorak wrote: I like equipment spam and it helps me so..... well id rather take spam over that god aweful bandwidth idea of Rattati's [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2004	Posted - 2014.11.19 04:24:00 - [14] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I don't understand why you continue to believe bandwidth will nerf logis. It's going to nerf everyone else's use of equipment EXCEPT for logis and it's going to make logis KING of equipment FINALLY. Add to that they are also going to adjust and buff the logi skill bonuses. thats not the point, any logi worth their EOM paycheck will tell you they often change suit to combad a threat on the ever changing battle.. i flip to minmando send a few swarms at a target to drive them off and flip back to logi.. basically if this bandwidth NERF happens the only viable logi will be amarr logi in a god aweful fit of swarm sidearm (obligatory tank moduals) injector rep drop/ammo all other logi would die off and the logi role would be even more under populated then it is now.. This is exactly my playstyle, and the bandwidth limit is a fantastic change imho. I chose to change my role to help my team by switching to AV. When I switch back to my Logi fit, I am only losing half of my deployed equipment, not all of it. I can now continue to redeploy my equipment as necessary, as opposed to just having it in places my squad is more than likely no longer at. If anything, this makes Logis even more valuable, not the other way around. And don't forget, iirc, this means that we will be able to carry more of each equipment item. This means less running to the supply depot in the heat of battle to restock. half of it could mean the uplinks you placed.. i like to have one main uplink and one backup and maybe hold the 3rd as a spare sometimes.. having uplinks randomly pop for seemingly no reason could just F over the team and cause a massive lack of team on the field leading to redlines... id prefer to see how the solo orbitals and solo ECM and team ECM play out first since they will cost much less WP... before they with equipment [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2004	Posted - 2014.11.19 04:25:00 - [15] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: facepalm Wow, your total lack of insight just boggles the mind. A quote from an old TV show comes to mind: "My god you are so dumb it makes me tired" I am an Amarr logi. Please explain to me how your proposal helps me. It results in: - me being able to use LESS equipment than I do now. - still being able to use THE SAME amount as some spam monkey who only drops 6 uplinks at the start of a match, possibly from a scout suit, and never setting foot in a logi suit again for the rest of the battle? How is that an improvement, exactly? You say yourself everyone will run some links. What bizarro world do you live in where that "protects" logis? And before you employ your typical ignorant ad hominem "argument": Dont bother, I have been an Amarr logi since the suit was un-broken in 1.2 and was a "logi" (there was only one) in beta - Feel free to click the link in my signature. I also have 8 weapons to proto and am part of the original beta logi tradition of omnisoldiers. Do not presume to lecture me on how to do my job. granted it would only be "less equipment" if you were fit with more then one type of uplink. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2007	Posted - 2014.11.19 06:27:00 - [16] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Quick idea just to toss out, but if the goal is to stop logis deploying passive support items and then swapping suits why not make the equipment pop if they spawn in in a suit that doesn't have a copy of the equipment? Then maybe find a way to limit the amount deployable per suit, maybe according to the highest "level" (not meta level, but standard/militia get one copy, adv gets 2 proto gets 3) So for example a suit decides to equip an advanced uplink and a militia uplink would still be limited to two deployable at a time due to adv being his highest level, make the same rules with the hives, maybe allow double the number for Rex's... Heck maybe you could switch the caldari and amarr bonus to possibly add a flat 1 activatable bonus at levels 1, 3, and 5 as well as the existing bonuses to further inscentivise their use... Sorry if any of this is a retread... well the problem isnt "logi" as such its People who arnt logi main useing logi suit to slap down dozens of uplinks and hives around suply depos and such... myself as a logi i run as a legit logi just useing the hive/uplinks on the suit i choose to deploy as.. and sometimes i have to flip to an AV suit and back again to a logi suit.. if we took your idea it would basically kill the logi role as once a logi does a quick flip to be versatile and drive off a threat (which alot of bitter vets used to tell newer players to do, god damned hypocrites) mostlikly our uplinks would pop meaning all dead soldiers end up back at the MCC if its a hard match.. and being a hard match that would mean a complete loss off the flow of the battle and mean a 100% loss chance and battles would become stale and boring because there would be next to no active uplinks near the spawn point(s) to actually get any fights.. this would kill FW, kill PC, kill dom and skirm.. and only ambush would be left as a viable game mode with SOME action it amazes me as to how narrow and short sighted alot of the playerbase is.. they have almost no idea WTF logi do while slayers slay and vehicles just run away from swarms and scouts with RE's... logi ARE the battle.. with out a logi there is no battle only getting redlined or CRU camped... logi are the second least used suit in the game with commando as the most least used.. if these equipment changes that other people or even rattatti have suggested come into game.. no one will want to play logi after the initial "oooh shiney" wares off.. not even myself.. and i main logi and alt logi on 3 other alts 1 of each race where as main covers all 4 logi.. so i have more then enough experance to know exactly what im saying, what shouldnt change and what will happen if the proposed changes of rattatti and other people happen.. atleast my suggestion is a simple one cutting down on spam while still letting people deploy and switch as desired/needed.. if all team members were to deploy max deployables (190ish currently which would not happen ever its just maybe 2 to 4 WP hungry A holes who ruin it) it would start to cause lag where as my proposal imposes some form of limit which is not restrictive.. but i am also thinking about what the new proposed solo orbitals will do for/to deployable equipment.. we cannot hide uplinks under buildings cause orbitals penetrate everything.. and im only saying uplinks because no one will think of a hive in the middle of nowhere as useful.. F it im going to bed.. there has been far too much stupidity and bitter-vet hypocrisy tonight in this thread. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2019	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:58:00 - [17] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: korrah silain wrote: Quick idea just to toss out, but if the goal is to stop logis deploying passive support items and then swapping suits why not make the equipment pop if they spawn in in a suit that doesn't have a copy of the equipment? Then maybe find a way to limit the amount deployable per suit, maybe according to the highest "level" (not meta level, but standard/militia get one copy, adv gets 2 proto gets 3) So for example a suit decides to equip an advanced uplink and a militia uplink would still be limited to two deployable at a time due to adv being his highest level, make the same rules with the hives, maybe allow double the number for Rex's... Heck maybe you could switch the caldari and amarr bonus to possibly add a flat 1 activatable bonus at levels 1, 3, and 5 as well as the existing bonuses to further inscentivise their use... Sorry if any of this is a retread... well the problem isnt "logi" as such its People who arnt logi main useing logi suit to slap down dozens of uplinks and hives around suply depos and such... myself as a logi i run as a legit logi just useing the hive/uplinks on the suit i choose to deploy as.. and sometimes i have to flip to an AV suit and back again to a logi suit.. if we took your idea it would basically kill the logi role as once a logi does a quick flip to be versatile and drive off a threat (which alot of bitter vets used to tell newer players to do, god damned hypocrites) mostlikly our uplinks would pop meaning all dead soldiers end up back at the MCC if its a hard match.. and being a hard match that would mean a complete loss off the flow of the battle and mean a 100% loss chance and battles would become stale and boring because there would be next to no active uplinks near the spawn point(s) to actually get any fights.. this would kill FW, kill PC, kill dom and skirm.. and only ambush would be left as a viable game mode with SOME action it amazes me as to how narrow and short sighted alot of the playerbase is.. they have almost no idea WTF logi do while slayers slay and vehicles just run away from swarms and scouts with RE's... logi ARE the battle.. with out a logi there is no battle only getting redlined or CRU camped... logi are the second least used suit in the game with commando as the most least used.. if these equipment changes that other people or even rattatti have suggested come into game.. no one will want to play logi after the initial "oooh shiney" wares off.. not even myself.. and i main logi and alt logi on 3 other alts 1 of each race where as main covers all 4 logi.. so i have more then enough experance to know exactly what im saying, what shouldnt change and what will happen if the proposed changes of rattatti and other people happen.. atleast my suggestion is a simple one cutting down on spam while still letting people deploy and switch as desired/needed.. if all team members were to deploy max deployables (190ish currently which would not happen ever its just maybe 2 to 4 WP hungry A holes who ruin it) it would start to cause lag where as my proposal imposes some form of limit which is not restrictive.. but i am also thinking about what the new proposed solo orbitals will do for/to deployable equipment.. we cannot hide uplinks under buildings cause orbitals penetrate everything.. and im only saying uplinks because no one will think of a hive in the middle of nowhere as useful.. F it im going to bed.. there has been far too much stupidity and bitter-vet hypocrisy tonight in this thread. I appreciate your feedback, however seeing as logos have weapons to fight infantry and only the sentinle has no equipment slots what it would actually force you to do is to fit your av fits with your prioritized deployable as their equipment(your things only pop if you are over the limit you get from equipping them) For example you are a proto amarr logi and have 3 uplinks out, and having only skilled nanohives to adv you only have two of those out. you need to drive off a dropship, so you switch to a premade av fram the uplinks would only pop if you had either and advanced or lower uplink, or no uplink in the equipment slot. In the case of only an adv or std or militia uplink fitted their you would lose only 1(adv) or two(std/mlt) as well as your hives. Once you switch back you can redeploy hives. If you are complaining about not being able to drive off infantry, well my understanding is that the logos gave up fire power for support. The numbers I gave out were purely hypothetical of course I haven't done math this is all off the cuff, but please don't misunderstand I'm not trying to belittle the logos or anything, or Nerf them, this simply seems like a simpler path to fixing the problem than the band with system. Further if the problem isn't so much the logis wouldn't limiting the maximum uplinks put out by non logis to a hard 3 while requiring them to remain in suits equipped with proto uplinks to keep them up for the duration of the match stop the spam? What is the maximum number per person, even scouts at the moment? Also, again this would require them to commit to those uplinks for the entire match, stopping the tourist logi/dentinal spam that is the root of the problem. logi, second lowest ehp of all the suits.. end up being much slower to compensate for the ehp gap.. all logi (excluding amarr) only have 1 light weapon slot for what ever weapon they choose.. most all logi cannot fit a mostly proto tank AND proto equipment and proto weapon.. seriously give it a shot on protofits with all L5 skills its impossable.. and thats even on a min logi with just a CR i still have to fit advanced shields and advanced hive to manage to squeese in proto needle proto rep and proto uplink.. as for armor it has to use reactive because of the lower requirments. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2019	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:04:00 - [18] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: facepalm Wow, your total lack of insight just boggles the mind. A quote from an old TV show comes to mind: "My god you are so dumb it makes me tired" I am an Amarr logi. Please explain to me how your proposal helps me. It results in: - me being able to use LESS equipment than I do now. - still being able to use THE SAME amount as some spam monkey who only drops 6 uplinks at the start of a match, possibly from a scout suit, and never setting foot in a logi suit again for the rest of the battle? How is that an improvement, exactly? You say yourself everyone will run some links. What bizarro world do you live in where that "protects" logis? And before you employ your typical ignorant ad hominem "argument": Dont bother, I have been an Amarr logi since the suit was un-broken in 1.2 and was a "logi" (there was only one) in beta - Feel free to click the link in my signature. I also have 8 weapons to proto and am part of the original beta logi tradition of omnisoldiers. Do not presume to lecture me on how to do my job. They EXPLICITLY said no one will have the as much bandwidth as a Logi. How are you figuring some spam monkey is going to have as many uplinks up as you? The idea is to bring down total number of deployables and make logis desireable because, even though they deploy less equipment than they do now, they will be able to deploy much more than any other suit. yes logi may get the most bandwidth but then that locks us out of being able to adapt to the battlefield as needed with out causeing your uplinks to go POP or w/e thus screwing over your team and ending up pushed back to the redline harder then a squad stomp with a large helping of proto stomp... i much rather the "bandwidth" idea be put on hold till we have had the "new orbitals" for atleast a month to see if solo orbital and solo ecm orbital make an impact on the battlefield against spam or not.. i just already guess having uplinks around or near cap points is goign to die.. so its gonna end up with uplinks all around the outside walls of places instead which can be all too easly picked off by useing an active scanner. or even just by being a cal scout with its stupidly long range on passive scans... i cannot fathom how these things will not damage how "action" packed some battles may be.. i mean we already had one major action nerf when OBs were nerfed from 2500 to 5000 and battles became quite dull and much slower and no chance of pushing back cause once you have been pushed back its near impossable to get enough wp for an OB. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2019	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:14:00 - [19] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: most all logi cannot fit a mostly proto tank AND proto equipment and proto weapon.. Why do you need all three? because all other suits can to a degree... and besides.. its our own risk to run that much proto and lose maybe 300k or more in one suit which is deemed the gimpest suit of all. however if bandwidth comes around the "go to" av suit will become amarr Logi becuase of sidearm and its logi meaning no equipment will have to pop.. now tell me does any other suit/role have that much BS to deal with and the micromanagement too? logi flip to av because slayers get too blood thirsty and tunnel visioned and dont even adapt.. and in the "special" case of sniper FGers they may slay and hit vehicles but they are not reliable, as in they are not in every match. now.. if ccp were to give ALL logi a sidearm and a little extra cpu and pg cause we are already starved on that front even at L5 cores and logi skill it may make this flipping form main logi to av and back alot easier leaving the slayers to slay, scouts to DEMI-GODMODE , assaults to do what ever they do and sentinels to be WP starved defending the point... ps... if all logi had sidearms it would mean that a logi who is primary min/cal/gal would NOT have to skill into amarr JUST to be an AV logi [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2019	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:20:00 - [20] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: . logi, second lowest ehp of all the suits.. end up being much slower to compensate for the ehp gap.. all logi (excluding amarr) only have 1 light weapon slot for what ever weapon they choose.. most all logi cannot fit a mostly proto tank AND proto equipment and proto weapon.. seriously give it a shot on protofits with all L5 skills its impossable.. and thats even on a min logi with just a CR i still have to fit advanced shields and advanced hive to manage to squeese in proto needle proto rep and proto uplink.. as for armor it has to use reactive because of the lower requirments. Then perhaps a general buff to the logo speed and ehp is necessary along side the implementation of this system to find a balance, not my decision I am simply trying to advocate for this simplified solution over the bandwidth idea. [/quote] ccp will not give a hp buff to logi nor a speed buff because of the rampant abuse of "slayer logi" back in the day.. however as i just said to demonsbane.. if all logi got a sidearm and slightly increased pg and cpu we would not have to waste SP skilling into amarr logi just to get a logi suit with a side arm which we can use as an AV platform so we can stay essentially as logi but also flip back and forth between Ap and AV roles while providing our highly Micromanagment centric role. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2021	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:51:00 - [21] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: No system is perfect, everyone will have to make some kind of sacrifice in order to limit EQ spam. This way, IMO, impacts everyone except logi's far more than it does logi's. This topic has been the central point of debate at least 3-4 times in this game's history, and I've been fighting proposals that had huge potential to nerf logi's every time. This is unquestionably the best proposal I've yet seen that will both: A) Work B) Be a lot harder on non-logi's than on logis. BTW, this one is arguably my favorite: John Demonsbane wrote: A word of warning if you are thinking about reading the linked thread: ItGÇÖs 18 pages long. If you donGÇÖt have an hour or so to go through it, allow me to summarize for you: OP: Someone who went 1/17 topped the leaderboard. WTH? The only way anyone should get WP is by shooting someone with an AR. Pew pew! Like, everyone else: ItGÇÖs called strategy. You should try it sometime. OP: Strategery? Never heard of it. These GÇ£logisticsGÇ¥ players you speak of, do they spend time doing anything besides shoot an AR? If so, they are leeches who steal WP from people like me who are more awesome than everyone else. They just run around with their eyes closed dropping equipment in completely random locations with no thought involved. Everyone else: YouGÇÖre an idiot. Have fun spawning from the MCC every time and running all the way across these huge new maps. You may also find it rather difficult shooting a gun with no ammo. OP: You are all trolls. My logic is unassailable, and only killing requires skill. Logis donGÇÖt do anything but spam equipment that they donGÇÖt need to spend SP or ISK on and take no risks. Me: If the guy youGÇÖre referencing died 17 times, sounds like he took some risk. OP: No, you guys are all haxx0rs taking advantage of a bug that lets you change suits at supply depots and get unlimited equipment for free. Nobody else ever uses supply depots to their advantage so this is clearly a logistics scam. Everyone else: No, thatGÇÖs how supply depots work. OP: No, youGÇÖre wrong Everyone: No, youGÇÖre wrong OP: YouGÇÖre a troll Everyone: No, you are! OP: No, you are! (repeat for 15 more pages) doubt it.. scouts wont have to sacrifice anything neither will assaults commandos sentinels HAVs LAVs or ADS/DS.. this change is only geared at screwing logi's over [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2025	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:53:00 - [22] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: doubt it.. scouts wont have to sacrifice anything neither will assaults commandos sentinels HAVs LAVs or ADS/DS.. this change is only geared at screwing logi's over This I still don't get. Do you actually understand how this thing works? Currently someone in a scout suit can run unlimited equipment. With BW, they can only have like 3 active at proto. Sentinels, same thing. Spawn in a logi suit, spam uplinks, switch to sentinel suit and mow down people with HMG while farming uplink WP. WIth BW someone in a sentinel suit can have zero active equipment. Sounds like a sacrifice to me. hmm so sentinels get 0 bandwidth? hmmm i must go deeper [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2025	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:21:00 - [23] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Ku Shala wrote: this will just leave pubs without uplinks and hives more equipment less usage is the solution example: 20 uplinks can be carried that allow 3 spawns only, same restrictions we currently have Or just put a restriction on the amount of uplinks you can have out. Lump uplinks as one thing, not seperated as they are. As it is now I can have 7 links out using different versions of uplinks. The way I suggest is once you have 3 of one type (or mixed) you can lay no more out. Are you going to pay for my respec if that happens so I can get out of the Amarr logi suit? Lol this suggestion is basically nerfing the caldari and amarr logi's to hell. its not as amarr and caldari are about QUALITY on their hives/uplinks caldari make hives rep more or give more ammo amarr allow faster spawns and more of them.. if anything we could blaim amarrans for uplink spam ;p [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2025	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:01:00 - [24] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Ku Shala wrote: this will just leave pubs without uplinks and hives more equipment less usage is the solution example: 20 uplinks can be carried that allow 3 spawns only, same restrictions we currently have Or just put a restriction on the amount of uplinks you can have out. Lump uplinks as one thing, not seperated as they are. As it is now I can have 7 links out using different versions of uplinks. The way I suggest is once you have 3 of one type (or mixed) you can lay no more out. Are you going to pay for my respec if that happens so I can get out of the Amarr logi suit? well where were you when they nerfed reptools with that god aweful Points per minute cap and more recently you only get triage points from targets who have recently killed some one. hmm? that was the ONE THING minmatar logi were good at.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2056	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:08:00 - [25] - Quote korrah silain wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: korrah silain wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Za'ki no system which binds its limits to the player rather than the active deployed dropsuit will be adequate in that no player bound system will address 'dumbfire self logi' (aka spam) which currently not only clutters the field but also undercuts support play. Playing logistics & support should be just that playing. It should not be a thing you do for the first few seconds or minutes of a match prior to depot swapping into a new suit to go slaying (or AV rooftop camping). Support play needs a rework and buff, the OP trivializes the role of support/logistics keeping it in the current passive state while also nerfing it b A heavys kills stay dead for the entire battle? How have I been respawning? If you want to kill as a logo then use the gun you get. As far as keeping things managable you will still keep uplinks when you switch, Only some are destroyed as according to your new suit. You want to kill stuff in a suit not limited like the logi then fine but you don't keep the bonuses. Umm... Do you even Immortal Clone Soul Brah? If kills don't stay dead HOW do we generate a kdr metric? Is that entire section of the statistics leaderboards a fig-a-mentation of my imagination? And I'm already Logi bonus limited when I flip suits in that my Amaarr link bonus disappears on the links I've placed. My links don't dissolve tho. My Min reptool bonus isn't applied when repping with my Gal etc etc etc. cmon dude, put down abacus thinking and get Texas Instruments at least. Your entire complaint against this is "but then I lose ALL MY UPLINKS when I switch suits to kill!!! This is dumb because: A) logis switching is the entire problem. B)this effects other suit not the logi suits (as much) because the logis have the bw to have multiple uplinks. Want to farm was/support your team then wear the suit that was intended for it. You can still kill because you have a weapon, want an av fit? Fit a swarmed onto the same suit as a variant then jump back when your mission is accomplished. Same be in same suit no problem there. As for the immortal clone sole comment that was in response to the accusation that heavies don't lose their accomplishments when they spawn, well no but they do lose their only accomplishment (killing) when their victems respawn. It really sounds like you are crying that this "Nerf" to the logis is forcing you to play a logi instead of switching. Edit: Logos "brah" do you even critical think? (Logos is not a typo of logis it is Latin for logic, one of the three cornerstones of traditional debate the other being ethos: ethical arguments, and pathos, appeals to emotion) So lets keep things Logocal and not lose sight of the problem. Equipment spam is the problem, particularly around Supply Depots. Not suit switching. Suit switching YES is HOW many spammers ply their trade HOWEVER is not the actual problem, the SPAM is. So address the SPAM and don't f with the switching! Logo enough for you? As far as my Logi play goes, I am full Logi, through and through. Invested, committed, active at the highest levels of gameplay available. And I guess its these highest levels that very few others participate in that will be hurt that others don't understand because we ALL hate the spam but only a few of us can see there are ways to address it that don't as a peripheral consequence screw other gameplay. If not, allow me to deposit a nice RL parrallel: Guns don't kill people, people kill people. [/quote] Um except the bandwidth limit does combat spammers because it ALSO limits the amount of equipment out period. So not only does the solution come down hard on the suit switchers, it also comes down on spammers while still giving the logis breathing room. Where is the problem? You have yet to show (besides eliminating suit switching tourist logis) how this needs dedicated logis...so no...not logo enough.[/quote] the problem is slayers (sentinels and scouts and some assaults) abuseing the logi role just to slap down as much WP generating crap on the ground as possible so they can gain passive wp while they get slayer WP too.. more so i think it was cross who stated that sentinels drop hives/rephives down and just switch to sentinel afterwards to be "stand alone" slayer i could say.. use flux? use EMP?(when its introduced) use mass? use anything with splash! this is why im campaigning against bandwidth UNTILL we have had some time with the NEW ORBITALS to see how they effect the game as i believe with everyone getting acess to solo EMP OB and solo normal OB at reduced cost if you introduce bandwidth AND the new orbitals it could just be like adding too much salt to food.. you cannot really remove the salt afterwards and it leaves an aweful taste in your mouth if you just tolerate it. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2057	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:15:00 - [26] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: I think I need to elaborate my point! My problem is that my uplinks (most of them or all when spawning heavy) are DESTROYED. In EVE when you leave your drones in space, do they explode? No they don't you can pick them up in a certain timeframe. It should not be different in Dust. If you switch to a suit with less bandwith, the stuff you put down in a logi suit, should just DEACTIVATE !!! So if you switch back to logi, everything starts to work as before! This is the only way to not punish logies that do not want to play in one role for the whole game. There have been enough games where my 6! upliks that I deploy at every game start have made a difference. My being a dedicated maxed AV minmando is obviously helping as well. Why should I be punished when everybody else can switch with no consequences. The only thing I don't want is the DESTRUCTION of the EQUIPMENT. DEACTIVATION while in a low bandwith suit is FINE! And to fight the spam, we need a hardcap of deployed equipment for every Suit, including a logi! I have played logi exclusively for my first year in dust (since open beta) so I know what I'm talking about. No logi needs more than 10 pieces of Equipment on the ground. If he switches to Assautl, only 4 of those would stay active. If he switches to Commando only 3 would stay active. If he switches to Scout, only 2. And the Fatty would only have one or maybe even nothing active. As soon as he switches back to Logi, everything starts working again (if not destroyed inbetwheen). This would encourage strategic placing of stuff, so that if your close to objective links get destroyed and you are in a low bandwith suit, the older links get reactivated automaticly up to the bandwith limit. This would be a fair solution. Because you wouldn't want to be locked to one role. If stuff above bandwith is DESTROYED, I demand that no suit exept logis can use EQUIPMENT AT ALL. When I have to stay in my Suit the whole game to keep my stuff on the field, nobody else should be able to do part time logi aswell by putting down equipment! If you wanted this to work like EVE, you'd have to approach each piece of deactivated equipment and re-activate it. ugh.. just gives me nightmares thinking about how we had to rep all the POS moduals and the POS to online it again after we sucessfully defend it for the second time [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2058	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:29:00 - [27] - Quote korrah silain wrote: too many quites.. something about logi being useless outside of blobs very true.. i have seen logis slowly dieing off.. we are the second least used suit in the game only slightly less then commando! logi cannot hardly make WP with out uplinks being somewhat persistant(so sorry shayz i dont like your 18 uplink with 3 spawns per uplink idea, because of scouts) so they can get some WP why they perform necessary actions like hacking minor objectives (silos/CRUs vehicles) a logi comes into his own when he is on the front line of a locked gun-battle with uplinks calling in the Un-reviveable clones to bolster the front line but also supply ammo to the troops to keep the locked battle going.. over the number of nerfs and changes locked battles have become somewhat of a fable of late... which i can attest with out these locked battles logi are midway or even at the lower end of the EOM ranking.. with scout/sentinel usually being the top 3 now.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2058	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:33:00 - [28] - Quote korrah silain wrote: How is this solution eliminating logistic and strategic placement? If anything it should encourage it considering your limited resources need to be use more effectively. I have seen matches where as few as 4 uplinks were deployed and allowed the team full effective tactical movement? And if you have another idea in another thread then post a link. As it stands here I am arguing for band width because it seems all the complaints I hear are incorrect, lacking evidence, or frivolous. (And I still see no evidence for your arguments...perhaps examples would help?) a simple idea could be dont allow equipment that is uplink/hive/triage-hive to be placed with in 10 to 15 m of a silo.. this may stop a little of the spam. but even so on that one map with the underground silo i find a Leeroy scout with flux nades clears it all up nice and quick and get a chunk of WP too.. when we get Solo and team EMP orbitals this will make it even easier.. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2058	Posted - 2014.11.21 22:48:00 - [29] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: No logi needs more than 10 pieces of Equipment on the ground. If stuff above bandwith is DESTROYED, I demand that no suit exept logis can use EQUIPMENT AT ALL. at most i use 3 uplinks.. maybe 1 hive at a time unless choakpoint gunfight of which i slap down 2 triage hives and try to get 2 ammo hives up too.. so thats.. 3+1(4) normal or 3+2+2(7) for heated gunbattles at choakpoints and if proximity mines didnt suck soo much rectum id probably slap a few on a bridge.. probably just 1 meta type.. since i can only use standard atm that would be another 3 to 4 soo that could be 10-11 equipment total IF its a heated gunbattle at a choakpoint, on/near a bridge, and hostiles dont flux/shoot my equipment for +5 WP each... which in the afore mentioned scenario is near imposable to do already as active scanner buff shows ALL the hostiles where my equipment is including mines.. and 1 flux can undo maybe 1 to 3 minutes of work.. and all this is even before i pull out my Rep-tool or injector... and now you see why logi is becomming a dieing role? [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2060	Posted - 2014.11.22 01:27:00 - [30] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Slave of MORTE wrote: Neither seem like a great solution especially when applied to pc..how many players would have to run dedicated spawns in order for pc ..at least 1 per objective......yall enjoy that That good sir is called opportunity cost and is very much a part of tactical game play. Choosing how to invest your limited resources in a synergistic manner that best supports your plan of action is, for my 0.02 ISK, exactly what competitive game modes like PC should require of their teams and team leaders. If the choices or trade offs were easy/consequence free they would lack substance and relevance. pc isnt competative, its just an isk farm propped up by mule corps to block other corps hitting the parent corp. competative would be bringing back Corp vs Corp but as there is too muck isk flow from pubs+PC and FW isnt stemming that tide CvC would have to have no isk payouts.. but perhaps a FW style salvage system.. and can be played at anytime when 2 corps decide to Epeen joust to see whos got the bigger D*** and/or bankroll.. as incentive maybe have the corp gain/lose ranks for win/lose.. and maybe have prizes for those who are in the top 3.. like bronze silver and gold.. each "season" is 1 month long. and corps cannot bring in "ringers" unless they have been a member of the corp for atleast a full season and/or joins the corp before the next season to actually count for that corp.. this could open a market for actually hireing players for a month to fight for the corp.. bringing some "mercenary" aspect to the players [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2079	Posted - 2014.11.22 14:45:00 - [31] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Better idea: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=181929&find=unread i already looked over it and im against having tiny number of spawns per uplink its counter productive for having uplinks in tactical locations #[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]

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