Well, considering that an ADS is supposed to perform strafing runs, and also considering that strafes are entirely untenable at the moment...how else would you suggest engaging them? 'Hard' counter or not, nothing is this game can't fight its nemesis; except swarm launchers (ironically) though we know that they cannot engage infantry because show OP it was back in beta.

So, without the ability to do what we're supposed to do, how are we supposed to engage anything even vaguely aware of our presence?


Yep, back with 400m swarms, vehicles were utterly pointless.

By evade, I'm going to assume you mean escape (since actual evasion of swarm missiles is nigh impossible) which is still a pretty steep statement to make. At Op3 I can have all three volleys in the air by the time the first volley hits; the ease of application of swarms make flight mandatory the moment you come under fire.


Um..seriously? Simply moving in a dropship requires more skill than operating a swarm launcher at all. Every single touch of the sticks requires constant monitoring and in a fight the dropship requires moment stop moment readjustment simply to remain aloft.

The Swarmer...simply doesn't. The only facet of skill the Swarmer requires is knowing when to fire and the extremely ridiculous 'strafing herp-derp gun gamr' that plagues this game.

Let me ask you a question: does a Mass Driver, Flaylock or Plasma Cannon require skill to use? If so, the missile turret needs skill - less than any of those mentioned, due to high damage output, but still inordinately more than any Swarm Launcher.


Considering that the turret still has to deal with Y-axis aiming and that the X-axis is still more than simply 'manoeuvring' like you seem to make out, not to mention the anticipation of motion that requires you to learn your target.

The swarm has a lock on box that takes up about 75% of the screen and requires minimal adjustment, and only the most up-close and extreme dropship movements will cause any possible lock-on issues.


Atiim, your assertions that swarms require even vaguely as much skill as piloting, and shooting with, an ADS is frankly offensive.

They are currently forming 2 versions of the missile turrets one for av and the other of ai. av has high dmg and ai has high radius and short range. I av very often and get one shot by adds on a regular basis unless my swarms happen to stagger them. So any boob will be able to kill ai close to the ground or control the av on a map should they win the first battle.

Next time reserve a second post for editing later.

I am not saying I entirely agree with you, but I do like to see a well thought out and well-articulated argument.

I also like your AI tank idea. Just allow Tankers to fit small turrets in Large Turret slots.

This is why I go play War Thunder instead of getting in my ADS most of the time that I want to fly. Unfortunately I lack ideas for how to fix this problem. This is more relevant than it may first appear, as I usually use assault/attacker planes in War Thunder so in both cases I am firing on ground targets.

No matter what turret you use, strafe runs are (sadly) impractical. I tried this with blaster turret, and I'm fairly certain that once some FGs spawned in they were either laughing at the thought process that made me think this could be effective at all, or swearing profusely as they could only hit me twice (both times with my hardner on) before I ran safely out of range. One bad maneuver and the addition of a red ADV swarmer was enough to stop this awful performance.

I probably hit them twice as many times as they hit me, sadly this was with a turret that does about 39 damage per hit and probably didn't even do full damage due to distance from which it hit them, I don't use missile turrets out of simple refusal to do so and rail turret strafing is just a ridiculous idea to begin with. I wish strafe runs were viable, but they simply aren't.

Oh, and a side point, blaster turrets still suck on the nose of an ADS, you might as well land on someone instead of shoot them with a blaster since it will be much more effective.

wat. you can strafe an ads

Logical fallacies are not meant to be used to win arguments and add nothing to the discussion as it stands. You don't USE fallacies in an attempt to win an argument or prove your point. It's the understanding of fallacies that leads to deeper more meaningful discussions.

I know attim (and you since I've noticed you gang up with him to berate people, which in itself is a fallacy) is a big fan of trying to use them to further his argument. But when you go about bringing them up, you are no longer having a discussion on the topic, but a discussion on how to have an argument. Can you see the flawed logic in that?

You can either come up with rational and well thought out ideas or arguments to how others see the situation. Or you can be like attim, picking apart others postings, pulling things out of context, in an attempt to win what he sees as an argument (aka fight).

So how about some rational reason as to why a swarm is or isn't balanced in comparison to the AV they fight, and enough with changing the topic of discussion into an argument. Lay out your ideas, and I WILL listen. You don't have to agree with someone, just LISTEN and understand, attempt to see it through their eyes. There are no "winners or losers" in a discussion, quit making it out like there has to be.

So put on your big boy pants, wipe that snot off your nose, and add something meaningful to the topic. There is no right or wrong, just the meshing of ideas.

I find it hard to tank cost efficiently. The price difference between AT's and XT's is crazy?! I grind in ambush for weeks just to build 20 proto tanks to save lol! They're not really proto, just the mods, but they feel epically priced enough?! XT's cost almost 300k for one!?! I got tanks that cost that much lol!

I would add that we need advanced models now. Before definitely not, but now that swarms are buffed maybe it's time for the release of the advanced hulls?

STOP! CCP, when I say this I in no way mean for you to drop super Uber OP tanks into the game!!! At most give it more CPU/PG to fit the turrets better, and maybe some bonuses like passive armor repair on armor tanks or speed bonus on shield.

You have a knack for the OP. Don't do it! I would like to have the advanced tank option though. That would definitely justify the price tag. I doubt AV would mind now as they get points for damage, and the weapons actually take tanks out.

Just my two cents. I like tanking, and all my points are into tanks.