DUST Search - CR Balance Mechanics

Atiim wrote:

Ripley Riley wrote:

Over usage can tip us off to overperformance. I should amend my statement with "CR users in my killfeed are getting kills, but rarely getting killed themselves". Maybe that will crystallize my point.

At the same time, overuse can point out underuse among other weapons which are meant to compete with it. An easy example would be with how SMGs and SCPs were overused in comparison to the other sidearms before the Sidearm Rebalance, dispite being relatively balanced as weapons.

As for what's in your killfeed, it's antedotal and too situational to be taken seriously. Mainly because there are many different factors which can cause such things to happen, such as:

How skilled the players are.
How skilled the players' opponents are.
What builds the players are using.
What builds the players' opponents are using.
What area/maps the players are on.
etc, etc.

Ripley Riley wrote:

I don't understand your position... you are against us being shown data on the CR? Are you concerned that it will be balanced appropriately?

If I'm wrong then the data will still be nice to see. If I'm right, then a weapon that needs balancing will be fixed.

Now your just being silly.

Not one time in my post did I claim to have any opposition against data for the CR being shown to the general playerbase. Given how I don't work for CCP (nor am I a CPM) my theoretical opposition wouldn't hold any weight anyways.


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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1928	Posted - 2014.11.17 17:10:00 - [1] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. I have one of my own that I think would be pretty easy and increase the skill cap on the rifle it is making it manual reload. Ops I meant to put this in features my bad. CR is balanced just use shield suits against it and laugh at the -15% dmg to shields.. noob [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1928	Posted - 2014.11.17 17:11:00 - [2] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: As a armor bricked Amarr Assault... The CR isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be. The only issue I see with it is its fitting costs. Its easier to fit a CR than it is to fit an SMG. That just seems odd to me. I would imagine it would at least use more than the SMG. Its other stats seem fine to me. its not easier to fit then an smg, however its slightly more then normal or breach but abotu equal to assault smg.. this probably played into the hands of the scout+CR domination pre-damage profile nerf [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1929	Posted - 2014.11.17 18:57:00 - [3] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: The CR is the only weapon without a balance mechanic I was wondering if any of you have any ideas. Increase the time between "bursts" of rounds. Remove the scope. you mean lower the ROF.. i would say no to scope removal as CR is the precision rifle where as the ACR is the BRRRRRAP! u dead MF.. gun of choice for most people who spray and pray. HOWEVER! when lag is present and you try to fire too fast the rythem gets messed the hell up and you end up bursting twice missing one and bursting once then missing and bursting twice.. iv been useing CR since day one of joining dust and the burst rifles perform poorly when on lag ridden matches/maps/enviroments (stormy for some reason) [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1932	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:01:00 - [4] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Where is it 'overperforming'? Can you give me recent data that demonstrates that? The top weapons in my killfeed are the HMG and CR, in that order. Ask Rattati for a wider sample size and then post it somewhere for review. Prove my hypothesis wrong Ahhh, yeah anecdotal assertions of "this is what i see so it's OP" I thought we learned about this back when Buster Friendly tried doing this.... Welp, this thread can officially be trashed. Logical: "We should get data to see if the CR is overperforming" Illogical: "Until we see data proving the CR is -not- overperforming...we need to nerf it" CR is somewhat balanced as it blows vs cal assaults and cal/gal heavies with large shield buffers.. the "overperformace" which the whiners are reffering to is the 30% armor damage (at Prof 5) but that is a given cause of the frequancy of people bricking armor of course people will use a CR more.. best used just after you flux the target for maximum prolapsed anus. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1932	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:03:00 - [5] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: you mean lower the ROF.. i would say no to scope removal as CR is the precision rifle where as the ACR is the BRRRRRAP! u dead MF.. gun of choice for most people who spray and pray. Fair enough. I was't going to say that the scope needs to be removed AND the RoF dropped. Either or is fine. Apothecary Za'ki wrote: HOWEVER! when lag is present and you try to fire too fast the rhythm gets messed the hell up and you end up bursting twice missing one and bursting once then missing and bursting twice.. I've been using CR since day one of joining dust and the burst rifles perform poorly when on lag ridden matches/maps/environments (stormy for some reason) That is unfortunate. I have used the burst AR in the past and I believe I know what you are talking about here. burst AR feels much different then the CR as burst AR fires bursts of 4 bullets and isnt really great at hipfire its more a stand still and fire type gun where CR is a little more forgiving [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1932	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:16:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: Needs to be revised, for some reason the post didn't go through properly. i think it dosnt need to be revised, it sucks against shields, excells against armor.. it has a 3 bullet burst which is equal to a single shot of a SCR which is the polar opposite of the CR in terms of damage profile.. simple rebuttle could be.. you hate CR? RUN SHIELD SUITS! you hate SCR? RUN ARMOR SUITS! its rock paper scissors... Cr < shield < SCR < armor < CR and nerfing the CR would mean nerfing the only truly viable weapon system againt bricked armor suits as we all know RR sucks in CQB where as the CR is a CQB weapon. its like this... (Skirmish)RR good vs armor, mid-long range, sucks at short. (CQB)CR good vs armor, short-mid range. sucks at long. now the opposing weapons.. (skirmish) SCR good vs shields, mid-long range, so-so at short. (CQB) AR good vs shields, short-mid range, sucks at long. now lets also look at this.. a SCR is like 60-70 dmg a shot.. CR is like 20dmg a shot but shoots 3 bullets per burst so thats like 60 to 63 dmg per shot.. HOWEVER! any one who uses burst weapons knows that it starts to underperform when lag is present as you start to miss fireing any shots so the fire rythem gets out of sync so you can shoot a couple times then expect another clean shot but it dosnt even arrive.. you do not get this problem with semi auto or full auto weapons in dust. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1932	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:24:00 - [7] - Quote how about a damage profile change for the CQB weapons? id propose ar short range AR going from +10(25% @ prof 5) shield and -10 armor to 10% shield and -10(+5% @ prof 5) armor this would make the AR the CQBeast it is ment to be! CR short-mid and the CR go from -15% shields and +15% armor (+30% @ prof 5) to -15% shields(0% @ prof 5) and +15% armor these changes are to not make the weapons excell at what they are good at but help nullify that which they are NOT good at, meaning heavy SP investment pays off. i would also like the burst AR tweeked to feel/act more like the CR, 3 bullets instead of 4 bullets per burst and adjust damage per shot accortingly with ROF too. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1932	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:28:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Over usage can tip us off to overperformance. I should amend my statement with "CR users in my killfeed are getting kills, but rarely getting killed themselves". Maybe that will crystallize my point. At the same time, overuse can point out underuse among other weapons which are meant to compete with it. An easy example would be with how SMGs and SCPs were overused in comparison to the other sidearms before the Sidearm Rebalance, dispite being relatively balanced as weapons. As for what's in your killfeed, it's antedotal and too situational to be taken seriously. Mainly because there are many different factors which can cause such things to happen, such as: How skilled the players are. How skilled the players' opponents are. What builds the players are using. What builds the players' opponents are using. What area/maps the players are on. etc, etc. Ripley Riley wrote: I don't understand your position... you are against us being shown data on the CR? Are you concerned that it will be balanced appropriately? If I'm wrong then the data will still be nice to see. If I'm right, then a weapon that needs balancing will be fixed. Now your just being silly. Not one time in my post did I claim to have any opposition against data for the CR being shown to the general playerbase. Given how I don't work for CCP (nor am I a CPM) my theoretical opposition wouldn't hold any weight anyways. we need to take into account CR has the lowest fitting of all the ARs and best damage vs armor bricks.. this coupled with flux nades makes for a great weapon.. but when you run out of flux nades you really feel its penality vs shields.. due to its low fitting its a favourite of most logi and most scouts.. since logi is nearly dead its the scouts fault for the CR to look like its over performing due to numerous RR nerfs to make it less viable as a cqb weapon where as the CR is still good at cqb [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7