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the breach ar QQ is absurd

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DarthPlagueis TheWise 386	Posted - 2014.11.14 06:25:00 - [1] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread Look at where the Breach AR is on that chart. Then look at the boundless combat rifle. Then look at the Viziam ScR. It's just been balanced to be as good at assaulting as the six kin assault CR, and the damage is outweighed by it doing better damage to shields than armor. stop crying that a gun is killing you and either skill into that gun, or skill into a gun that will counter that gun F*k this cash grab fix the shit that matters: unkillable uplinks, invisible remotes on null cannon hack panels, etc.
137H4RGIC Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 326	Posted - 2014.11.14 06:30:00 - [2] - Quote 7/10 +1 I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together! 137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2238	Posted - 2014.11.14 06:49:00 - [3] - Quote Meanwhile, the breach out DPSes the assault variant OF THE SAME RIFLE. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2539	Posted - 2014.11.14 06:53:00 - [4] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Meanwhile, the breach out DPSes the assault variant OF THE SAME RIFLE. Not only out dps's in numbers, but has greater range and, because it fires slower, is more likely to land shots. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 1501	Posted - 2014.11.14 07:05:00 - [5] - Quote Yes, but numbers show only part of the truth. What is more important, is to look at the killfeed. And guess what? Yep, that's right. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 962	Posted - 2014.11.14 07:29:00 - [6] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Meanwhile, the breach out DPSes the assault variant OF THE SAME RIFLE. Not only out dps's in numbers, but has greater range and, because it fires slower, is more likely to land shots. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1058	Posted - 2014.11.14 07:53:00 - [7] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Meanwhile, the breach out DPSes the assault variant OF THE SAME RIFLE. Not only out dps's in numbers, but has greater range and, because it fires slower, is more likely to land shots. And has more damage per magazine. And more carried damage, eliminating the need for nanohives. Face it guys. The BrAR is a little OP. I know it. You know it. I've been abusing it. And so have you. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 378	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:31:00 - [8] - Quote Its only a matter of time. CCP balances guns depending on the number users. If too many people use the gun....there must be a reason-------> its OP! CCP Banner Hammer incoming! Take Cover! Ban Hammer Siren 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
PARKOUR PRACTIONER G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2223	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:48:00 - [9] - Quote Its a BREACH variant. Meaning hard-hitting slow-firing. Im currently loving lvl2 BAR with ZNs. ARs are the most all around balanced weapon, ive been using this combo before CR RR even existed and its a lot better now so if im 'abusing' it than so be it. GB-9+SK9M=OP? PSN Sil4ntChaozz Recognizing your bad is the start of being good Scout Devotee Mk.0/Gk.0/'Sever'
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Capital Punishment. 2550	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:49:00 - [10] - Quote That information is several months old. It does not take into account that the Rail Rifle has been nerfed/balanced several times since than. Using that information is a little hazy as too much as changed. Hypothetical: Weapon A is 120% (OP), Weapon B is 90% (slightly UP), and Weapon C is 110% (slightly OP). Obviously, more people use Weapon A then Weapon C, maybe even to the point that no one knows about Weapon C's possible balance issues. A balance change happens. Weapon A is reduced by 25% and Weapon C is unchanged. Which one will people migrate to and what might be slightly too powerful? It is the notion of Sleeper OP. Not saying that is what happened with the BAR but simply saying "Look at the numbers!" is meaningless when the numbers are old. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 275	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:49:00 - [11] - Quote Lol don't worry about it m8 the projection with the RR nerf is that people will flock to the cr which they have and it will get a proper nerfing then I would say the rifles will be close to balanced. I of course have no hard numbers, but It is pretty obvious which FW is overpopulated. Even if they do nerf it it isn't that good anyway I like the standard better. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
The Master Race Immortal Guides 279	Posted - 2014.11.14 10:49:00 - [12] - Quote Lol don't worry about it m8 the projection with the RR nerf is that people will flock to the cr which they have and it will get a proper nerfing then I would say the rifles will be close to balanced. I of course have no hard numbers, but It is pretty obvious which FW is overpopulated. Even if they do nerf it it isn't that good anyway I like the standard better. The Impossible Dream and Wizard Talk
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3341	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:31:00 - [13] - Quote First let's eliminate hit fire accuracy and range, breach AR and AR have it the same. This leave us with DPS, CLIP, ammo reserves. The breach as 3 points of dps higher than the AR, this is around 0.005% extremely negligible. The way it applies dps means it negates strafing, and it forgives missing. I bet you if strafing was nerfed the AR would be come the better variant. That's because in games where you can a strafe like crazy weapons that can negate it with high damage per shot are the most effective. In games where there is no crazy starting high rof wins because you can quickly overwhelm them with damage, where slow r of would be easy to react to. The damage per clip is 400 hp higher, this should be reduced. Along with the ammo reserves. Overall the nerf to a breach would be fixing strafing and reduce the clip. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 606	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:35:00 - [14] - Quote Most balance passes are done by amount of users using the gun. Not weather it's balanced or not.. leave the ARs alone for now. The Gallentee have cried for a long long time so let them have their day in the sun. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
doc lowroar Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 25	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:44:00 - [15] - Quote All I know is I get cut down very fast w/ breach. On average when flanked by: c.r. I can turn and at least fire once , by scr. Turn and see shooter , by breach cloned. "Wherever you go, there you are" -BB
Zindorak Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1286	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:47:00 - [16] - Quote Breach AR clip should be increased to 42 and normal AR needs to be better as with the BAR Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
LudiKure ninda Dead Man's Game RUST415 151	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:10:00 - [17] - Quote BAR is op as RR used to be... ( -í° -£-û -í°) `SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED`
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1868	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:06:00 - [18] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread Look at where the Breach AR is on that chart. Then look at the boundless combat rifle. Then look at the Viziam ScR. It's just been balanced to be as good at assaulting as the six kin assault CR, and the damage is outweighed by it doing better damage to shields than armor. stop crying that a gun is killing you and either skill into that gun, or skill into a gun that will counter that gun 10/10 for squashing the QQ with 100% logic backed up with CCP graphs and charts. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1869	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:10:00 - [19] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: BAR is op as RR used to be... no its not. it has no scope and effective range is only 55m where as effective range on RR was like 71m. bar max range(not effective) is 71m (55m effective) RR max range(not effective) is 101m(71m effective) see the difference now? the RR was op because its dps AND range, the effectiveness was not tied to JUST longer ranges it was effective in CQB too.. where as the BAR is higher dps but MUCH shorter range and even shorter effective range. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13713	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:21:00 - [20] - Quote I love how people think DPS means everything. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 1504	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:26:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: I love how people think DPS means everything. Well, on paper and in optimal situations. In practice it's a whole another world. As has been seen multiple times. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
Kayla Michael Tactical Logistics and Cargo Northern Associates. 15	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:30:00 - [22] - Quote Qs a lake, a lake as big as Lake Michigan. QQs all day erry day.
DarthPlagueis TheWise 391	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:23:00 - [23] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Meanwhile, the breach out DPSes the assault variant OF THE SAME RIFLE. So? That's what happens when Rattati ignores the fact that the Duvolle AR even exists. F*k this cash grab fix the shit that matters: unkillable uplinks, invisible remotes on null cannon hack panels, etc.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2174	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:28:00 - [24] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread Look at where the Breach AR is on that chart. Then look at the boundless combat rifle. Then look at the Viziam ScR. It's just been balanced to be as good at assaulting as the six kin assault CR, and the damage is outweighed by it doing better damage to shields than armor. stop crying that a gun is killing you and either skill into that gun, or skill into a gun that will counter that gun That is old data. I would expect a mass exodus of slayers from RR and into the BAR will certainly have skewed those numbers. I'm not crying, I've been using the BAR for some time now, but let's be honest in our anti-QQing.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 547	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:39:00 - [25] - Quote Oh look a weapon that can confidently deal with calscouts has emerged from the mists. Oh look a tide of forum posts complaining that is massively OP. Hmmmm. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1071	Posted - 2014.11.14 20:43:00 - [26] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread Look at where the Breach AR is on that chart. Then look at the boundless combat rifle. Then look at the Viziam ScR. It's just been balanced to be as good at assaulting as the six kin assault CR, and the damage is outweighed by it doing better damage to shields than armor. stop crying that a gun is killing you and either skill into that gun, or skill into a gun that will counter that gun Pssst 1.8 chart not 1.9 We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2243	Posted - 2014.11.14 23:05:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: I love how people think DPS means everything. I usually agree with you, Atiim. Though this time, you're right for all the wrong reasons. Yes, DPS doesn't mean anything, as things such as Clip deplete time(CR has lowest), damage a clip(Scr has highest, not counting OH or chsrge shots) alao factor into the usability/niche of the weapon. Now, compared to the Assault Variant, the breach has: better DPS(This alone breaks tradition, as Breach means lower DPS higher range.) longer range, tighter hipfire(this is where you're right...and it makes the case Breach is OP) With tight hipfire, the gun becomes less about spray and pray, and player skill keeping the reticule on target, also allowing the person to keep hipfiring at higher ranges(thus not slowing them down to 0.5M/s) and making their ALREADY HIGHER dps even higher in application, against everything except the mythical 'it moves too fast for you to track' General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1065	Posted - 2014.11.14 23:14:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: I love how people think DPS means everything. It really doesn't. Which is why the ScR isn't OP (and never was IMO) because its applied DPS is actually a good bit lower than the other Rifles. Same with the TacAR. That 650-700 DPS means a lot less if you can only realistically apply 1000 or so damage before having to wait a a few seconds afterwords to cool down or reload. And this is why the BrAR is OP. Its applied Damage is substantially higher than a regular AR. Its a lot easier to hit the target with this weapon because of the slower fire rate, titghter hip fire, and less recoil. While you might miss 15% of your rounds using an AR, you'll probably miss less than 10% of your BrAR. Its paper DPS is a little higher than the regular AR, but its real DPS is boosted pretty well because of this. It also carries more damage in each magazine. This reduces the chances of running dry in the middle of a fight considerably. And allows the user to more easily dispatch tankier enemies. The extra 250 damage in a BrARs mag is a serious advantage. It is equivalent to the Minassault and Amassault bonuses in strength. And because it has has more damage in the magazine, and longer firing times than the regular AR, it has a higher DPS over time than the regular AR as well. It gets to spend more time shooting, and less time reloading. But that isn't all! It also has a longer optimal range than the regular AR if all that wasn't enough. It has a 44m optimal, while the AR has a 40m optimal. It has more Range, paper DPS, DPM(Damage per Magazine), a tighter hipfire, and therefore more applied DPS as well. There are actually no drawbacks to using the BrAR over the regular AR. That is pretty much the definition of OP. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2842	Posted - 2014.11.15 00:06:00 - [29] - Quote The sounds of ambush are now just Breach ARs firing over and over, with RR's on the outside mixed in, or HMG's on the inside. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Lloyd Orfay SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 207	Posted - 2014.11.15 00:11:00 - [30] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread Look at where the Breach AR is on that chart. Then look at the boundless combat rifle. Then look at the Viziam ScR. It's just been balanced to be as good at assaulting as the six kin assault CR, and the damage is outweighed by it doing better damage to shields than armor. stop crying that a gun is killing you and either skill into that gun, or skill into a gun that will counter that gun You denouncing obvious problems is absurd You using highly outdated information to denounce said problem, is absurd. There is literally no sense for team killing to be possible in any gamemode.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.11.15 00:45:00 - [31] - Quote I'll be honest -- I don't really understand the graph very well. Could someone enlighten me?

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