DUST Search - Should an ADS be able to kill a triple rep maudy?

All Channels

General Discussions

Should an ADS be able to kill a triple rep maudy?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 892	Posted - 2014.11.14 02:57:00 - [1] - Quote More accurately, should an XT-1 Small missile Turret with 15% bonus to fire rate be able to dmg one? This is very specific question with no outside variables to be taken into account. Assume no AV, Installations, players, ect. Just a basic 1v1. I faced one today and it got me thinking as i was volleying it down and got very interesting. You see, at first my argument was "ADS used to 1v1 triple rep maudy, therefore it should still be viable..." Then I realized that was an invalid argument. That's when it hit me to ask the question again and couldn't find the answer because I started to see a different picture... it isn't the ADS that's doing the damage... its the front mounted turret with a bonus it receives from being mounted on ADS. Everytime someone complains about something being op or sucky, it's always the weapons not the suits. Even when people complained about scouts... it wasn't the suits themselves but the equipment that allowed cloaking in combination with the shotgun. But it was always different with vehicles. Vehicles were either op or not viable. So I'm focusing on the turret with the buff it receives from the ADS. Should an XT=1 Missile Turret with 100 missile standard capacity divided into 6-8 missile clips be able to bring an triple rep maudy's hp down to zero? If yes, at what point should it occur? How many clips should it take? and why? If not, what is the reasoning? Assuming every missile hits with no breaks in between aside from reloading time in between clips, maudy has no hardeners, and ADS has no DMG amp modules. Skills are all lvl 5 related to maudy's armor rep modules and skills that affect the turret. I would like the turret to eventually take it down. But I can not find any conclusive evidence as to why it should or should not be able to take one down? Let's discuss. Eventually I would want to get into real in game scenario that includes all variables that could affect outcome, but for now we are taking a blackbox approach. I am really fascinated by this topic and hope you guys can contribute to it. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
DarthPlagueis TheWise 384	Posted - 2014.11.14 02:59:00 - [2] - Quote implying the problem with scouts is not the suit -_- F*k this cash grab fix the shit that matters: unkillable uplinks, invisible remotes on null cannon hack panels, etc.
LUGMOS YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE 805	Posted - 2014.11.14 03:00:00 - [3] - Quote Changes would have to be made for this to become reality. There was some talk of a sort of epic burst type variant that would cripple tanks out of pure alpha, but would be like a single burst type thing for strafe runs, much like the A-10 of nowadays. I see where you are getting at with the ADS complaint. If I were to fit a regular DS (Grimnsenes or something) with two XT middle launchers, I'm almost positive people wouldn't give a flying duck. But once I go ADS... the sky falls down. Quafe A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does, So what is DUST? A problem or a question?
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15051	Posted - 2014.11.14 03:00:00 - [4] - Quote I just wish small missiles weren't more viable AV than small rails in most cases, considering, as front turrets, they're better AI in just about all cases. Logistics Vehicles Bitter Vet extraordinaire, vehicle specialist, sarcastic prick
137H4RGIC Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 306	Posted - 2014.11.14 03:06:00 - [5] - Quote Scouts are so OP that they've made their way into a HAV v DS query? Lol I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together! 137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13699	Posted - 2014.11.14 04:23:00 - [6] - Quote Yes. You both are equal in terms of SP investment, and you've (presumably) have spent a long time learning how to operate your gear. Not only that, but the Madrugar is only operated by 1 player. If it took more than 1 ADS to destroy it, than it would be imbalanced as it's requiring more resources to destroy than it takes to field, thus giving the "Triple Rep Maddy" an unfair advantage over the ADS. Then there is the fact that Missiles are explosive (+20% Armor Damage), which are specifically designed to be extremely effective against Armor (ie Madrugars). The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1524	Posted - 2014.11.14 04:23:00 - [7] - Quote In short: maybe, maybe not. =P ADS small turrets can be considered sustained damage - multiple shots over long time with great chances of following up the target. Trip Rep tanks are by definition best suited against exactly damage projection like that! They should be good versus steady stream of not-so-high alpha damage. Trip Rep tanks do have HUGE disadvantage which are of course the mentioned high alpha weapons. Against alpha the tanks have to abandon the trip rep and have hardeners (maybe plates). Now the important part: If ADS small turrets have about fifty-fifty chance of killing Trip Rep tank, hardest targer for them, then it is very likely that they would absolutely devastate the easier targets! (Those without the trip rep) While something being 100% unkillable by something another is uncomfortable, those situations are almost guaranteened to happen when the game has vehicles of different categories, I'd have to say ADS small turret (one) should have the chance of killing only the weakest trip reps. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 382	Posted - 2014.11.14 11:37:00 - [8] - Quote As things stand now, in a dogfight with pythons they have trouble breaking past my 1 complex light armor rep. Tanking meta right now is heavily geared towards glass rails or missile tanks. Gunlogis have better hardeners and a good resistance to swarms, so i my beloved maddy is in the garage right now. That being said, a triple reped fit at about 300+ hp per seconf, also considering how long it takes to reload and the fact that no tanker will sit still long enough to let you hit, not its not going to happen. Should an anti infantry turret be able to dish out enough damage to wreck a tank like that? IMO no. You can still fit a rail on a python, you just wont be as effective as an incubus. Nothing to do with ROF but the fact thatnow the incubs gets more shots per level, max incubus skills gives you the same number of shots as pre delta. All of this is a moot point thogh, proto rail turrets on a incubs weren't good enough to solo tanks unless it was at level 5 gal ADS. The current maximum ROF is roughly 70+% less than that. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Zindorak Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1286	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:10:00 - [9] - Quote Yes it should Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1281	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:52:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yes. You both are equal in terms of SP investment, and you've (presumably) have spent a long time learning how to operate your gear. Not only that, but the Madrugar is only operated by 1 player. If it took more than 1 ADS to destroy it, than it would be imbalanced as it's requiring more resources to destroy than it takes to field, thus giving the "Triple Rep Maddy" an unfair advantage over the ADS. Then there is the fact that Missiles are explosive (+20% Armor Damage), which are specifically designed to be extremely effective against Armor (ie Madrugars). I agree with the 1:1 balancing but with vehicles they have already introduced the idea of one class being invincible against another, so it should not be taken as a given that 1 player should always be able to kill another. Of course, a counter to a class should always be able to kill its target, so that leads to the question is an ADS anti-tank or the tank anti-DS, both or neither. Because, that's why.

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 539	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:55:00 - [11] - Quote In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15051	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:13:00 - [12] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. You clearly don't appreciate how obnoxiously OP that would be Logistics Vehicles Bitter Vet extraordinaire, vehicle specialist, sarcastic prick
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2999	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:16:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. You clearly don't appreciate how obnoxiously OP that would be But you have to admit, It'd be pretty cool to be able to perform airborne assassinations with a triple damage modded sniper on a calmando. Granted, not really balanced, but cool. R&B gets more kinky with every album Still rocking ADS
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2542	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:22:00 - [14] - Quote Currently XT missiles have a sustained (full clip plus reload) DPS of about 370 iirc. I don't recall the max hp/s a Madey can get but I believe it's close to this, but not quite. Personally, I think this DPS is too low and have proposed changes to increase it. Anyway, a triple rep Maddy is designed to survive sustained fire (small missiles, swarms), but is weak to high alpha (forges (plural) and large missiles and rails). So focusing on only one type of tank should be very resistant to whatever it's resisting. Now, should it be impossible? No, but it should be pretty difficult and take a while. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1394	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:27:00 - [15] - Quote In my opinion NO . It's not just HAV's that your going after and would be more hell for infantry like previously which caused the nerf in the first place and a 50% ROF WAS JUST TOO MUCH , what are you people not getting about that ???? XT-Missiles are powerful and yes the Maddy just might have one pilot but so does the ADS or the DS but the one given is that most DS's have more then one gun where with a HAV that's optional in most cases but that doesn't mean that you don't see HAV pilots not eq their HAV with extra turrets because they do but even with that in most cases a DS can just hover over the HAV and pelt it to destruction . I just don't get you pilots , you have far less worries then ground vehicles but you keep QQing subtlety and making attempts on the slide to try to banner a effort to have your machine warrant a buff and it's part of the reason that I killed my vehicle SP's and took my SP's out of ground vehicles , so I can see what all the fuss is about and personally I just don't see it . Myron's and Pythons are weak but that's in terms of survivability , not power .. I had a Myron shot down by a HMG and that's just silly in my mind and I had a shield booster that was applied and the HMG just shot without overheating which was mind blowing to me seeing as how they just changed it , so yes they have a problem . XT-MISSLIES ARE VIABLE , just like AT-missiles ... just because you can't instagank like before doesn't make them worthless . I use to see you guys just slaughter infantry with no problems before the nerf , I mean ADS's were FOTM if there was ever one and now EVERYDAY I see post after post about how the DS's are underperforming and it's just BULLOCKS . I fly more now and I just don't see it and I don't have half the experience that most of you " PILOTS " have and I can hold my own and rarely get shot down , even more so by another ADS but that's because I'm not going to chase someone that shoots at me only to run off expecting me to chase them . If you wanna fight , I'm all for it but I don't do chases and I know when to avoid AV because I AV and I just don't sit there trying to soak up damage , get shot down and come to the forum complaining about how DS's are underpowered . Can't say that I don't know because I have invested in DS's and I fly exclusively but the difference that I have over a lot of pilots is that I used HAV's and not militia ... I had more then 14 mil in vehicles and I AV , something's that most pilots just don't do but they can tell you why HAV's and AV is overpowered and that's just not right if you have no experience but I see it in the forums on a daily . I know some of you pilots use HAV's and AV because I see you but a lot of you don't . I'm just tired of seeing the DS's are underpowered posts because it's just not true , survivability in the case of the Caldari DS's yes but that's because their shield based just like their infantry and most of you are against dual tanking so what's the problem ??? You DAM SURE don't need anymore offensive abilities even more so when they are talking about the release of the next tier of vehicles , you were slaughtering infantry with no opposition and for those who talk about the difference between ADS's and DS's you know that ADS's have the extra gun and more maneuverability then a DS so I wouldn't complain when I see a Myron or a Gal DS going at it because I know that if infantry does something about it , more or less your just not the threat that I fully manned ADS would be and the fact that ADS's are far more mobile . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp . 1394	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:32:00 - [16] - Quote And Triple Rep Maddies just don't function like they did in the past , I wish I had the post where Rattatti himself commented on that subject to prove that there just not the same . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 957	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:54:00 - [17] - Quote Shinobi, what about this question makes you think pilots in general want to be unholy murder machines? As far as this thread is concerned, we're talking about the theoretical engagement of two things and what the situation should be like: should one be able to kill the other, when the target is specifically tanked to resist the main method of damage application of the attacker. As far as ADSs are concerned, they no longer serve a purpose except to murder: I think I have seen the vast majority of ADS pilots (essentially everyone who isn't asking for ROF return) wanting to have better defined roles and the ability to actually perform them on the battlefield - Rattati's determined that ADSs should perform strafing runs: current small turret/ADS functionality is incapable of supporting an effective strafing run, even with two side gunners with max skills. So quit your bitching and talk about the question, or shut up and get out. We don't need another thread or arguments about the ADS, just talk about what was asked: don't borrow trouble. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 539	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:17:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. You clearly don't appreciate how obnoxiously OP that would be Hey it would extend the dropships support role quite well. And dont forget it requires teamwork to do that and it would mean 2 guys in a dropship>1 twatt in a solo tank. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Pushing Charlie Elite Intergalactic Mercenaries 407	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:24:00 - [19] - Quote Both are anti-infantry, so it should come down to skill. But an ADS should in no way win Vs a tank fit for AV. May we never forget his sacrifice
Pushing Charlie Elite Intergalactic Mercenaries 407	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:26:00 - [20] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. You clearly don't appreciate how obnoxiously OP that would be Hey it would extend the dropships support role quite well. And dont forget it requires teamwork to do that and it would mean 2 guys in a dropship>1 twatt in a solo tank. Then people would start turning Dropships into MD platforms. It just wouldn't be easy to balance, at all. May we never forget his sacrifice

REDBACK96USMC Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 117	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:41:00 - [21] - Quote If an ADS pilot is able to sustain his position to continuously hit the tank then hell yes. (I know you can, Ive lost plenty in rage fits to you in PC) While in no way should it be as fast as before, it is still a viable tactic. I seriously think they should make the ADS with no seats and limited slots/PG/CPU. Give it a damage boost but low RoF. Put it more in a traditional role like you actually see in the battlefield. Bring back splash missles too so the pilot can choose between ground support and AV. This would also carry over to other vehicles and make them more viable. Top Tier Dropships could serve just like Hueys/53's/Chinooks. ADS could serve like the Cobra/Apache. Now giving them the same Armor/Shield as a tanked out DS and it gets OP again. Make the ADS choose its engagements wisely.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 267	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:04:00 - [22] - Quote Pushing Charlie wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. You clearly don't appreciate how obnoxiously OP that would be Hey it would extend the dropships support role quite well. And dont forget it requires teamwork to do that and it would mean 2 guys in a dropship>1 twatt in a solo tank. Then people would start turning Dropships into MD platforms. It just wouldn't be easy to balance, at all. All I see is a lot of WP for my minmando The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
jace silencerww Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:04:00 - [23] - Quote ok so goes. madrugar is just using adv blaster and no high slot mods he can fit (with the right skills) 2 complex and 1 enhanced reppers for a total of 387.5 per second. python with xt missile (455) and maxed ads skills will do 500.5 damage against armor it will be 575.58 damage, remember the efficiency rate % and a rof 57.5 so the dps is 479.85 so just on that it looks like the ads will kill it. lets say the shields are already down on the madrugar and the ads is full clip. 8 shots at 575.58 in just over 8 seconds does 4604.64 damage. 8 seconds the madrugar reps for 3100. so by the time the ads is reloading the tank will have about 1/3 to 1/2 armor. so how long is the reload? that will answer the question. but since CCP has not give us the reload time on any turret it is hard to say. lol if it is over 5.2 seconds the tank will be full armor again.
jace silencerww Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:07:00 - [24] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: Pushing Charlie wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: In my opinion no. But on the other hand i would welcome it if dropship passangers would be aible to use their weapons. For example you could have a buddy with a swarm launcher/forgegun and chase the tank with the help of your mate who fires his AV weapon from the passanger seat. You clearly don't appreciate how obnoxiously OP that would be Hey it would extend the dropships support role quite well. And dont forget it requires teamwork to do that and it would mean 2 guys in a dropship>1 twatt in a solo tank. Then people would start turning Dropships into MD platforms. It just wouldn't be easy to balance, at all. All I see is a lot of WP for my minmando sad part is the min commando unless it has a complex damage mods the cald commando with 3 complex damage mods does more damage and still has higher ehp. with a kin cats the caldari is just as good.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2367	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:19:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yes. You both are equal in terms of SP investment, and you've (presumably) have spent a long time learning how to operate your gear. Not only that, but the Madrugar is only operated by 1 player. If it took more than 1 ADS to destroy it, than it would be imbalanced as it's requiring more resources to destroy than it takes to field, thus giving the "Triple Rep Maddy" an unfair advantage over the ADS. Then there is the fact that Missiles are explosive (+20% Armor Damage), which are specifically designed to be extremely effective against Armor (ie Madrugars). Someone so against vehicles, commenting about vehicle combat. lol I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 892	Posted - 2014.11.14 17:56:00 - [26] - Quote I guess i'm in agreement too. An ADS with a proto missile turret should not be able to kill a triple rep madrugar. It sucks but oh wells. It would be nice if we could fit a 2nd or 3rd turret but the survivability for a single turret is already low enough. Adding another turret would be suicide... not to mention super expensive. Thanks for staying on track. I'm surprised most of you did. Guess the real problem isn't mechanics but getting blue berries to work together. But that's been a problem since before I starting playing this game. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1088	Posted - 2014.11.14 18:06:00 - [27] - Quote Should an ADS be able to kill a tank? Yes. Can a ADS be reasonably expected to kill a tank in current their state? Nope. Are stacking heavy vehicle reps still OP? Yep. How to balance cloaks.
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1007	Posted - 2014.11.14 18:20:00 - [28] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Should an ADS be able to kill a tank? Yes. Can a ADS be reasonably expected to kill a tank in current their state? Nope. Are stacking heavy vehicle reps still OP? Yep. It's nowhere near as cut and dry as you just made it. Certain types of ads excel at AV, certain types of hav excel against AV. Rep tanked hav excel at sustainability vs low to mid range damage over time, and fail miserably against high instant damage. It's all about bringing the right drink to the party.. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 893	Posted - 2014.11.14 18:24:00 - [29] - Quote medomai grey wrote: Should an ADS be able to kill a tank? Yes. Can a ADS be reasonably expected to kill a tank in current their state? Nope. Are stacking heavy vehicle reps still OP? Yep. I can easily pop sica's and soma's. Gunlogi's and none trip rep maudys take 6-8 clips but still popable. But for some reason triple rep maudy just wont die. lol. I that led to this discussion. -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Operative 1174 Uuali The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 70	Posted - 2014.11.14 18:27:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yes. You both are equal in terms of SP investment, and you've (presumably) have spent a long time learning how to operate your gear. Not only that, but the Madrugar is only operated by 1 player. If it took more than 1 ADS to destroy it, than it would be imbalanced as it's requiring more resources to destroy than it takes to field, thus giving the "Triple Rep Maddy" an unfair advantage over the ADS. Then there is the fact that Missiles are explosive (+20% Armor Damage), which are specifically designed to be extremely effective against Armor (ie Madrugars). Small 6 year old girl with a pop gun walks into a bar and picks a fight with a 6 ft, 350 lb hulk of a badass mixed martial artist. Assuming the big lug has no qualms about fighting the little girl no holds barred, who would win and how ineffective would the loser be against the winner? I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.