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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3779
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
It appears that passive SP gained for being in a match has been reduced dramatically.
I'm going to run some tests now and see what the value currently is. Does anyone happen to know offhand what the original value for the passive match SP is/was?
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4730
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
5 SP per second, I believe.
If they have lowered the passive SP value while increasing the SP earned from WPs then I say it's a positive change. It should deincentivize AFKing even more.
My advice to you, playa...
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
392
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:5 SP per second, I believe.
If they have lowered the passive SP value while increasing the SP earned from WPs then I say it's a positive change. It should deincentivize AFKing even more.
No. AFKers are hardly even a thing anymore. All it does is **** over all the legit players. And CCP haven't increased the SP payout either, only the SP cap.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4549
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Better increase that wp modifier then...
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3780
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Okay, yep it looks like it has been cut in half. I ended up with a calculation of 2.3 SP a second. I figure my numbers are a little off and that means it has been halved to 2.5 SP per second.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4731
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:AFKers are hardly even a thing anymore. All it does is **** over all the legit players. Legit players should be in the battle earning WPs that translate directly into more SP.
As for "AFKers hardly being a thing", I see at least one 0/0 blueberry with 0 WP in an EoM screen every night. It still happens.
My advice to you, playa...
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Kensai Dragon
DUST University
Ivy League
63
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Probably trying to cover the 750k cap + passive + Boosters (*3) + instant Boosters (+3) = 5mil+ SP / week fiasco. |
Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
393
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:AFKers are hardly even a thing anymore. All it does is **** over all the legit players. Legit players should be in the battle earning WPs that translate directly into more SP. As for "AFKers hardly being a thing", I see at least one 0/0 blueberry with 0 WP in an EoM screen every night. It still happens.
I''ll suffer 1 AFKer if it means I don't have to grind out for another 24-48 hours just to cap out. It's ******* stupid and means my 3 day OMEGA doesn't last long enough to cap out.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
393
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kensai Dragon wrote:Probably trying to cover the 750k cap + passive + Boosters (*3) + instant Boosters (+3) = 5mil+ SP / week fiasco.
Are you dumb, active boosters DO NOT help you hit the cap quicker, they simply award you a percentage of the SP you earned in battle, that is outside of your Weekly SP pool. And when I get 1st place on a reclined Dom, 1,500 WP and only earn 4,000SP, something is wrong.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4731
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Posted - 2014.11.12 14:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I'll suffer 1 AFKer if it means I don't have to grind out for another 24-48 hours just to cap out. It's ******* stupid and means my 3 day OMEGA doesn't last long enough to cap out. Yes well I enjoy my entire team participating in matches  Sorry you can't hit the insanely hit SP cap every week. Truly, I am distraught for you.
My advice to you, playa...
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
394
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:I'll suffer 1 AFKer if it means I don't have to grind out for another 24-48 hours just to cap out. It's ******* stupid and means my 3 day OMEGA doesn't last long enough to cap out. Yes well I enjoy my entire team participating in matches Sorry you can't hit the insanely hit SP cap every week. Truly, I am distraught for you.
Lol, STFU. One squad of Proto stompers can annihilate an entire team of uncoordinated blueberries. Seriously, if you've been playing as long as you have, have as much SP as you do and aren't able to influence the outcome of the battle, and must instead rely on some random blueberry to secure your win for you, then I suggest you put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
VEHICLEBUSTERS Demolitions and Logistics Corp .
1381
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:
I''ll suffer 1 AFKer if it means I don't have to grind out for another 24-48 hours just to cap out. It's ******* stupid and means my 3 day OMEGA doesn't last long enough to cap out.
Is it even paying the full 100% .?. I just used one and it wasn't paying out the full 100% .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2831
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Id say that WP SP should be an x6 multiplier...
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4733
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Lol, STFU. One squad of Proto stompers can annihilate an entire team of uncoordinated blueberries. Seriously, if you've been playing as long as you have, have as much SP as you do and aren't able to influence the outcome of the battle, and must instead rely on some random blueberry to secure your win for you, then I suggest you put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it. Blueberries make great cannon fodder for my squad and I, plus they occasionally poop out nanohives or hack installations.
A blueberry who is asshating around, occasionally distracting a redberry so I can kill it is better than someone AFKing. If you can't see the tactical value in that then I suggest you "put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it."
My advice to you, playa...
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
399
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:
I''ll suffer 1 AFKer if it means I don't have to grind out for another 24-48 hours just to cap out. It's ******* stupid and means my 3 day OMEGA doesn't last long enough to cap out.
Is it even paying the full 100% .?. I just used one and it wasn't paying out the full 100% .
It is, don't worry, your just getting bonus percentage SP from your loyalty bonus, that isnt multiplied by the Booster
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Mike Ox Bigger
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
395
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:5 SP per second, I believe.
If they have lowered the passive SP value while increasing the SP earned from WPs then I say it's a positive change. It should deincentivize AFKing even more. No. AFKers are hardly even a thing anymore. All it does is **** over all the legit players. And CCP haven't increased the SP payout either, only the SP cap.
This. I barely see AFKers anymore, they're not really a thing. |
Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
399
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Lol, STFU. One squad of Proto stompers can annihilate an entire team of uncoordinated blueberries. Seriously, if you've been playing as long as you have, have as much SP as you do and aren't able to influence the outcome of the battle, and must instead rely on some random blueberry to secure your win for you, then I suggest you put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it. Blueberries make great cannon fodder for my squad and I, plus they occasionally poop out nanohives or hack installations. A blueberry who is asshating around, occasionally distracting a redberry so I can kill it is better than someone AFKing. If you can't see the tactical value in that then I suggest you "put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it."
Lol, so you admit to stealing someone else's kills, and think your good at DUST. Let me tell you something, I'd suffer an entire team of blueberries all circle jerking in the MCC so long as I can get my full SP for the time I put into the match, the kills I racked up, and the support I've provided. The **** do I care if someone else decides to play or not, their absence should not penalise me and my playstyle like CCP are currently doing.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2217
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lower passive gains in exchange for higher active gains have been wanted for like forever, so that would be a good change (although if they actually halved the passive gains, the active gains should've been more than doubled).
Though, doing something without telling the players once again (if the change is on purpose etc), that still sounds like the old CCP.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
2514
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Lol, STFU. One squad of Proto stompers can annihilate an entire team of uncoordinated blueberries. Seriously, if you've been playing as long as you have, have as much SP as you do and aren't able to influence the outcome of the battle, and must instead rely on some random blueberry to secure your win for you, then I suggest you put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it. Blueberries make great cannon fodder for my squad and I, plus they occasionally poop out nanohives or hack installations. A blueberry who is asshating around, occasionally distracting a redberry so I can kill it is better than someone AFKing. If you can't see the tactical value in that then I suggest you "put down the controller and uninstall DUST, you are bad at this game and should feel bad for it."
My concern is this punishes new players who don't have the means to generate many WPs per match. This dramatically slows down their progression, making them get even less from a match and making it even more likely they'll give up and quit. They should be learning smart tactics like avoiding battles they can't win instead of charging in over and over because they might get a few assists and provide "cannon fodder" for guys like you.
Think of the big picture here instead of yourself. AFK should be dealt with by checking for rubber-bands. If outputs from the sticks are constant for over 30 seconds then you suicide, loose a suit and get booted.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
400
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Lower passive gains in exchange for higher active gains have been wanted for like forever, so that would be a good change (although if they actually halved the passive gains, the increase in active gains should've been more than doubled).
Though, doing something without telling the players once again (if the change is on purpose etc), that still sounds like the old CCP.
But that's just it, the increased Active SP Modifier doesn't compensate for the decreased passive SP, we're running at a deficit and CCP seriously need to go back an rethink their ratios, because by the looks of it, Icelanders and Asians can't actually do math.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4736
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Lol, so you admit to stealing someone else's kills, and think your good at DUST. Somewhere along the way you seem to have imagined up a post where I said I was good at Dust. Hallucinations are a sign of a serious brain injury. Please seek medical attention.
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Let me tell you something, I'd suffer an entire team of blueberries all circle jerking in the MCC so long as I can get my full SP for the time I put into the match, the kills I racked up, and the support I've provided. The **** do I care if someone else decides to play or not, their absence should not penalize me and my playstyle like CCP are currently doing. Passive SP isn't rewarding you for the work you do, it is rewarding you for hitting the 'Join Match' button and then moving your DS3 sticks around. Active SP is the reward for those kills and that was not effected by this change. 
My advice to you, playa...
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Kensai Dragon
DUST University
Ivy League
63
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:Probably trying to cover the 750k cap + passive + Boosters (*3) + instant Boosters (+3) = 5mil+ SP / week fiasco. Are you dumb, active boosters DO NOT help you hit the cap quicker, they simply award you a percentage of the SP you earned in battle, that is outside of your Weekly SP pool. And when I get 1st place on a reclined Dom, 1,500 WP and only earn 4,000SP, something is wrong.
Lol, are YOU dumb? Read the forums that you post on.
Even Rattati thought the same thing. Read here. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2217
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:But that's just it, the increased Active SP Modifier doesn't compensate for the decreased passive SP, we're running at a deficit and CCP seriously need to go back an rethink their ratios, because by the looks of it, Icelanders and Asians can't actually do math.
Hence why I said the active gains should've been more than doubled (if this reduction in passive gains is on purpose and not a bug).
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4736
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:My concern is this punishes new players who don't have the means to generate many WPs per match. This dramatically slows down their progression, making them get even less from a match and making it even more likely they'll give up and quit. They should be learning smart tactics like avoiding battles they can't win instead of charging in over and over because they might get a few assists and provide "cannon fodder" for guys like you.
Think of the big picture here instead of yourself. AFK should be dealt with by checking for rubber-bands. If outputs from the sticks are constant for over 30 seconds then you suicide, loose a suit and get booted. Now this is a real concern. I see how this could present a problem for new players. Unfortunately, this isn't as easily solved since it will involve improving the NPE more.
Remember that 1-day active booster new players get from completing the tutorial? Why not give them 7-day active and passive boosters to accelerate their SP gains for the first week of play? The Academy has had its duration extended to 5,000 WP, but even that still feels low. Increasing it to 7,500 WP would provide more time to learn.
I'm derailing Kain's thread now... my bad OP.
My advice to you, playa...
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2304
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Okay, yep it looks like it has been cut in half. I ended up with a calculation of 2.3 SP a second. I figure my numbers are a little off and that means it has been halved to 2.5 SP per second.
Sweet. Passive cut in half, WP to SP doubled. I'll take it.
It's still kludgey and has the wrong game design geometry, but it's good enough for now. Would of loved if we could have had a conversation about this part of DUST's game design, the game needs it - what we've learned here should inform Legion. It's definitely worth a conversation. This fix is analogous to medicating an illness forever as opposed to actually curing it, but whatever.
Wondering why they wouldn't advertise this change, it's a huge positive for DUST. Maybe trying to gauge how important AFK sp were for the playerbase.
Regardless of the non-communication, imo it's another feather in Rattati's cap.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
400
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kensai Dragon wrote:Yelhsa Jin-Mao wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:Probably trying to cover the 750k cap + passive + Boosters (*3) + instant Boosters (+3) = 5mil+ SP / week fiasco. Are you dumb, active boosters DO NOT help you hit the cap quicker, they simply award you a percentage of the SP you earned in battle, that is outside of your Weekly SP pool. And when I get 1st place on a reclined Dom, 1,500 WP and only earn 4,000SP, something is wrong. Lol, are YOU dumb? Read the forums that you post on. Even Rattati thought the same thing. Read here.
NO, he DIDNT. That was just some Bullshit he came out with to try and cover their assess when they edited the patchnotes by removing the weekly 750,000SP Cap, and then didn't implement it. He then tried to play the incompetent dyslexic by saying he "didn't understand", when every other time they have posted the words about an SP cap increase for an event, they have managed to successfully implement it. These guys are goddamn programmers with degrees, not school children messing about in IT class. They understand perfectly well what they are doing, and your even more of an idiot than they are if you actually believe it every time they serve a **** and bullshit sandwich and say it a delicasse and you should be grateful for it.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
2218
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Sweet. Passive cut in half, WP to SP doubled. I'll take it.
I don't know why you would because it doesn't give the same amount of SP since the passive SP gains was the majority of your SP gains.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
400
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Okay, yep it looks like it has been cut in half. I ended up with a calculation of 2.3 SP a second. I figure my numbers are a little off and that means it has been halved to 2.5 SP per second. Sweet. Passive cut in half, WP to SP doubled. I'll take it. It's still kludgey and has the wrong game design geometry, but it's good enough for now. Would of loved if we could have had a conversation about this part of DUST's game design, the game needs it - what we've learned here should inform Legion. It's definitely worth a conversation. This fix is analogous to medicating an illness forever as opposed to actually curing it, but whatever. Wondering why they wouldn't advertise this change, it's a huge positive for DUST. Maybe trying to gauge how important AFK sp were for the playerbase. Regardless of the non-communication, imo it's another feather in Rattati's cap.
Are you an idiot. The active sp increase does NOT compensate for the passive sp decrease. We are ALL running at an SP deficit every game we play, which means we have to GRIND even longer to cap out. And a 750,000 SP cap is a ******* mountain of a grind.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Yelhsa Jin-Mao
New 'Recruits' Get Paid ISK - Ask For Details
400
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Sweet. Passive cut in half, WP to SP doubled. I'll take it. I don't know why you would because it doesn't give the same amount of SP since the passive SP gains was the majority of your SP gains.
It probably a DEV trying to show fake community support for the change. Remember none of them have disclosed their alternate accounts, and anyone idiotic enough to voice this sort of opinion is either a troll or has an agenda. Either way, their an ******* idiot.
And no, you CANT have my ISK!!!
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2304
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Posted - 2014.11.12 15:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Vell0cet wrote:My concern is this punishes new players who don't have the means to generate many WPs per match. This dramatically slows down their progression, making them get even less from a match and making it even more likely they'll give up and quit. They should be learning smart tactics like avoiding battles they can't win instead of charging in over and over because they might get a few assists and provide "cannon fodder" for guys like you.
Think of the big picture here instead of yourself. AFK should be dealt with by checking for rubber-bands. If outputs from the sticks are constant for over 30 seconds then you suicide, loose a suit and get booted. Now this is a real concern. I see how this could present a problem for new players. Unfortunately, this isn't as easily solved since it will involve improving the NPE more. Remember that 1-day active booster new players get from completing the tutorial? Why not give them 7-day active and passive boosters to accelerate their SP gains for the first week of play? The Academy has had its duration extended to 5,000 WP, but even that still feels low. Increasing it to 7,500 WP would provide more time to learn. I'm derailing Kain's thread now... my bad OP.
Agree with both of you re impact on the NPE.
This is why i always advocated differential WP payouts based on a player's experience in-game. New and struggling players would get paid WP/sp only for performance on the battlefield, but they would be paid proportionately more WP for their actions. We could prolly do this very easily by looking at a player's -¦ rating and total earned WP and coming up with some sort of WP-to-sp multiplier. Wouldn't need many more variables than those two, imo.
The game design has to live and breathe 'Action on the Battlefield'. The passive sp dole was the diametric opposite of that - that's called bad game design geometry, when the games system's send players mixed messages.
What Rattati has given us is better than the awful system CCP forced on us before, but we can and should do a helluvalot better than that.
PSN: RationalSpark
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