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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18843
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Posted - 2014.11.08 17:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, ISK payouts. They've been in roughly their current incarnation for... a very long time. There've been little tweaks over time but they've never really left the ~200k average zone.
Let's talk about that.
ISK is a key part of this game. Using most gear costs ISK. When you die, you lose this gear and as a result lose ISK. As a result, using most gear is tied into how much ISK you can get. This also provides a significant incentive to not die.
Here's the thing, though - If the ISK payout is too low, you get a massive aversion to risk because nobody wants to die because if they do they'll lose precious ISK and be unable to run gear they like. In a way this means that people can't run their best gear all the time, and that's probably a good thing. What isn't a good thing, though, is the balance between how much people are rewarded for risk and how much they are punished for it.
Sticking all the way through a match without doing anything will earn something like 80-160k ISK. I get this number from my AFKing 'efforts'. That is to say, if you do absolutely nothing in a match, you'll earn ISK in that range.
If you take out a couple of mediocre fits at 30k ISK in a match and go out into the fray, you can start earning more WP and therefore more ISK. If you're a logi or someone able to farm lots of warpoints, that can help your ISK payout noticeably.
But is that worth doing?
With said 30k fits, which I'm using as an average because that's what a cheap ADV fit (which ought to be pretty much average) will cost you, can you earn enough with them to make it worth risking? By charging into the fray and pushing objectives/making a serious effort at changing the game flow, you are inevitably going to lose several of these. If you lose half a dozen of these, will you earn enough ISK to make it worth doing that?
The problem is that you won't. A better than average match may earn you 300k if you make a serious effort and are in the top few slots on the board. In the process of doing this, you'll have lost several suits. Losing half a dozen or so, which I imagine is lower than the average deaths per match, will put your net profit down to the ~100k range.
That's similar to AFK profits! And that's using cheap fits, doing very well in matches, and not dying a huge amount.
This naturally means that people aren't going to want to take risks and this means that there is no incentive to make a serious attempt at fighting.
TL;DR
People are risk averse because ISK payouts for taking risks are too low to justify taking those risks.
This leads to gameplay stagnating people people are unwilling to seriously fight.
I propose increasing the ISK payout and the share of the ISK payout for earning warpoints. Ultimately, those changes should mean that doing nothing earns you either what it does currently or less, but gives significantly more ISK for those who make a genuine effort at winning the match.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18852
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Posted - 2014.11.08 20:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Unless the payouts were raised incredibly drastically, proto still won't be sustainable. Losing three proto suits will still put you ISK negative for a match even with a doubled payout.
That's not really the entire point here, though. The point is to reward people more for taking risks rather than AFKing. You get barely less ISK for AFKing than you do for actually engaging.
What really ought to make people less risk averse is people being rewarded more for engaging.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18860
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Posted - 2014.11.08 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kensai Dragon wrote:
Deaths = (-25k)
Deaths = (-35k) (would not lose more than kills gained)
Deaths = (-5k)
Deaths as a penalty runs entirely counter to the purpose of the suggestion.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
18887
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Posted - 2014.11.09 01:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's not so much about being able to constantly fund proto gear so much as it's about being incentivised to play.
Don't confuse this, folks.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19408
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Posted - 2014.11.26 19:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I want higher ISk payouts.
I do not want "let's constantly run proto" payouts unless a game mode that adds a LOT of heavy losses and risk opens up specifically for prototype battles.
This.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Glorious pink victory has been achieved.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19945
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Posted - 2014.12.08 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is not a 'proto all day every day' suggestion.
At present there is very little difference between the profits you get from AFKing and the profit you get from actually fighting, even in cheap gear.
The payout values are frankly pathetic. Even if they were doubled, it would not magically mean that everyone is permanently running proto. Two or three deaths will put you ISK negative in proto. That is not sustainable for everyone.
The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19952
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Posted - 2014.12.09 06:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:People should not be able to run proto after proto and still make a profit. In actuality the baseline ISK earned should be even lower. This will help burn the ISK of those who exploited PC.
OR
Make proto and ADV much more expensive
Both of these actually mean that only those who played PC or played pre-Uprising will be able to afford proto and possibly ADV as well if you seriously believe that ADV should only be for the elite.
Reducing payouts is absurd. Get your hatred of "PC exploiters" away and actually think about this.
The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
19952
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Posted - 2014.12.09 07:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:People should not be able to run proto after proto and still make a profit. In actuality the baseline ISK earned should be even lower. This will help burn the ISK of those who exploited PC.
OR
Make proto and ADV much more expensive Both of these actually mean that only those who played PC or played pre-Uprising will be able to afford proto and possibly ADV as well if you seriously believe that ADV should only be for the elite. Reducing payouts is absurd. Get your hatred of "PC exploiters" away and actually think about this. My hatred of the exploitation is well deserved. It is the reason that this game will never be truly connected to EVE. It ruined the economy in Dust. From the eyes of EVE players and CCP our ISK is nonexistent. I am thinking about this. I am thinking about how to erase the billions of ISK that are sitting in peoples wallets. I honestly wouldnt mind an unannounced ISK wipe.
Then you're an idiot.
There never was a real economy. I came out of the Uprising refund with 400 mil ISK, and it dropped maybe 20 mil after months of proto all day every day until I joined FA, even without playing PC.
ISK is not why DUST and EVE aren't connected. DUST is why they're not connected. It's terrible, and would not be able to support a proper link. If you seriously believe that PC ISK is even a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy, you have another thing coming. I have 80 bil on my EVE account. I am only moderately well off in EVE terms. If you put most of the players in FA together you probably still wouldn't have that much.
DUST and EVE are never going to be linked. DUST is going to be quietly killed off out the back sometime, without ever linking up. That is not because of ISK. Punishing pub players (and indeed, both of your proposed 'solutions' assist PC players in stomping more than anything else) is an absolutely ridiculous way of attempting to get the games linked.
The Federation is not a defined region of space, of planets, of mountains, rivers, or woods. It is a vision.
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