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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3311
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Posted - 2014.11.07 12:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range?
Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range.
Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage.
Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage perfect clip better at short range, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better.
So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into. Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4638
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Posted - 2014.11.07 12:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Switching the breach to short range and the assault to long is the answer.
I've been saying this dor a while.
Long range = high alpha works on ship to ship snd vehicle combat. It falls apart rapidly with infantry.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1496
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Posted - 2014.11.07 13:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range?
Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range.
Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage.
Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage perfect clip better at short range, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better.
So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into. Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too.
Don't remember if BL4CKST4R previously wrote any quality posts but this is one. +1.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3312
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Posted - 2014.11.07 13:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Switching the breach to short range and the assault to long is the answer.
I've been saying this dor a while.
Long range = high alpha works on ship to ship snd vehicle combat. It falls apart rapidly with infantry.
Yeah definately, was gonna write something about your thread on the OP but it was early in the AM and I couldn't remember who wrote it :<, there is a reason why the original assault weapons were long range though
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1241
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Posted - 2014.11.07 20:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fix strafing?
How?
Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more?
TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing?
Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield?
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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hfderrtgvcd
1085
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Posted - 2014.11.07 20:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
The basic ar is amazing at cqc. The breach is way overboard though. More and more people are noticing it and usage is shooting though the roof. Even nyain san have switched to them.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3317
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Posted - 2014.11.07 21:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Fix strafing?
How?
Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more?
TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing?
Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield?
Adding inertia to infantry.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3317
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Posted - 2014.11.07 21:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:The basic ar is amazing at cqc. The breach is way overboard though. More and more people are noticing it and usage is shooting though the roof. Even nyain san have switched to them.
It is better than the AR because of what I explained and what breakin said. Otherwise they are exactly the same. The main difference is how they perform the same job, the only way to properly nerf the breach is to make it function like the AR, without reducing any numbers but that would just make it obsolete as it would be basically an AR.
And no the basic AR is horrible, it's only useful on people that are standing still or at the edge of it's optimal range of 40 meters. At cqc it is only good on low hp targets, or high hp slow targets. The breach can do well against any target.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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The-Errorist
SVER True Blood
878
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Posted - 2014.11.07 22:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Jathniel wrote:Fix strafing?
How?
Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more?
TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing?
Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield? Adding inertia to infantry. I'm glad you didn't say bullet momentum which was what caused the "stunlock" effect. Adding a bit of inertia to infantry wouldn't be so bad.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3317
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Posted - 2014.11.07 22:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Jathniel wrote:Fix strafing?
How?
Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more?
TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing?
Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield? Adding inertia to infantry. I'm glad you didn't say bullet momentum which was what caused the "stunlock" effect. Adding a bit of inertia to infantry wouldn't be so bad.
God no the stunlock effect was horrible, it would be awesome if bound to a grenade or equipment.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
13086
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Posted - 2014.11.07 23:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Breach is the only Plasma Rifle that is anywhere near the top 5 rifles. And that's coming from Rattati's stats.
So instead of buffing the other Plasma Rifle variants, he instantly strikes down the Breach, without even thinking for a second "Hmm, maybe I should do something about the other rifles too".
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Skullmizer Vulcansu
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2014.11.08 00:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't know what you people are talking about. My assault rifle of choice for close quarters is the tactical variant. I can't stand the others.
This game makes me suicidal.
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
2117
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Posted - 2014.11.08 01:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Breahc should imitate the RR. Long range, low DPS relative to the other AR variants. This is part of the problem.
A big part I think is the lower ROF. It's easier to readjust target since the time between shots allows the dispersion and recoil to reset better, meaning its more stable. But regardless, there is a reason people are migrating to it, and its not because they like the sound it makes.
Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
1229
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Posted - 2014.11.08 01:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Normal AR doesn't do it. I have to use the Officer AR to get any kills
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3319
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Posted - 2014.11.08 02:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Breahc should imitate the RR. Long range, low DPS relative to the other AR variants. This is part of the problem.
A big part I think is the lower ROF. It's easier to readjust target since the time between shots allows the dispersion and recoil to reset better, meaning its more stable. But regardless, there is a reason people are migrating to it, and its not because they like the sound it makes.
I wouldn't find this weapon getting nerfed as long as it's compensated with range and the AR is buffed.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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JUDASisMYhomeboy
xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
148
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Posted - 2014.11.08 02:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Breach was good before the buff..we told them not to buff it (or at least not as much as they were saying ) go ahead and nerf it. I'll still use it and it will still be good |
BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3320
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Posted - 2014.11.08 03:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote:Breach was good before the buff..we told them not to buff it (or at least not as much as they were saying ) go ahead and nerf it. I'll still use it and it will still be good
Breach was horrible before it was buffed. Had super low DPS
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4462
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Posted - 2014.11.08 04:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:Fix strafing?
How?
Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more?
TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing?
Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield? NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
34
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Posted - 2014.11.08 04:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Jathniel wrote:Fix strafing?
How?
Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more?
TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing?
Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield? Adding inertia to infantry.
increase dispersion while moving, logibro had an explanation up a week or so ago.
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3320
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Posted - 2014.11.08 05:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Suggestion for "fixing" the AR, along with the assault rail rifle taking a more CQC role [needs a range nerf]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcbHsEHX9jNk72PH0_zs6ZLC7oL6DDkOdVMvUTRtU60/edit?usp=sharing
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Kierkegaard Soren
THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415
539
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Posted - 2014.11.08 08:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fix strafing and you fix the fundemental issue of cqc. Everything else should get balanced after that has been implimentated.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
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Lloyd Orfay
SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE
185
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Posted - 2014.11.08 10:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range? Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range. Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage.Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage per clip better at short range than any other, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better. So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into. Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too. Spreadsheet on some ideas for AR changes https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcbHsEHX9jNk72PH0_zs6ZLC7oL6DDkOdVMvUTRtU60/edit?usp=sharing
Hugely unbased and untrue statements.... Some just go past the general observations you could find about the breach AR. Slower ROF makes a weapon harder to use in CQC... Everyone knows that(especially if it has very little dispersion) The plasma rifle still performs as the most reliable default weapon. If anything what the plasma rifles need is an ammo carry amount increase, and have the breach AR have 14% of its base damage removed from basic to proto, and increased dispersion. Problem solved. |
BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo
3322
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Posted - 2014.11.08 12:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lloyd Orfay wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range? Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range. Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage.Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage per clip better at short range than any other, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better. So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into. Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too. Spreadsheet on some ideas for AR changes https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcbHsEHX9jNk72PH0_zs6ZLC7oL6DDkOdVMvUTRtU60/edit?usp=sharing Hugely unbased and untrue statements.... Some just go past the general observations you could find about the breach AR. Slower ROF makes a weapon harder to use in CQC... Everyone knows that(especially if it has very little dispersion) The plasma rifle still performs as the most reliable default weapon. If anything what the plasma rifles need is an ammo carry amount increase, and have the breach AR have 14% of its base damage removed from basic to proto, and increased dispersion. Problem solved.
since you want to lower the dps to just slightly under a prototype rail is the range gonna be 75M? Just wondering.
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4686
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Posted - 2014.11.08 12:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lloyd Orfay wrote: Slower ROF makes a weapon harder to use in CQC... Everyone knows that(especially if it has very little dispersion)
Critically false statement based on erroneous information.
Slower rate of fire coupled with high damage means higher efficiency in close. High DPS weapons that lose 2/3 shots suffer FAR more than weapons that do more damage that lose the same number of shots to misses.
Breach weapons that hit chew far more deeply into HP pools and the rapid fire weapons suffer far more from strafe avoidance because the applied damage is greater.
High DPS MEANS JACK unless you hit a majority of the time.
The rapid fire weapons preform better at range because they apply better.
The ARR applies damage better at range than the RR. The RR applies better in close.
The AR applies damage at max optimal better than point blank where the breach shines.
Unfortunately the EVE meta of range = alpha applies well to ship combat and vehicle combat.
It falls apart entirely when applied to infantry where alpha in close is king and rapid fire is king at range.
Precision weapons are an odd exception. Tac AR, snipers, etc. Are NOT alpha. They are precision weapons.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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