DUST Search - [Feedback] Before you brutalize the Breach AR...

Lloyd Orfay wrote:

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range?

Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range.

Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage.

Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage per clip better at short range than any other, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better.

So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into.
Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too.

Spreadsheet on some ideas for AR changes

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcbHsEHX9jNk72PH0_zs6ZLC7oL6DDkOdVMvUTRtU60/edit?usp=sharing

Hugely unbased and untrue statements.... Some just go past the general observations you could find about the breach AR.
Slower ROF makes a weapon harder to use in CQC... Everyone knows that(especially if it has very little dispersion)
The plasma rifle still performs as the most reliable default weapon.
If anything what the plasma rifles need is an ammo carry amount increase, and have the breach AR have 14% of its base damage removed from basic to proto, and increased dispersion. Problem solved.


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BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3311	Posted - 2014.11.07 12:12:00 - [1] - Quote Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range? Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range. Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage. Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage perfect clip better at short range, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better. So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into. Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3312	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:46:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Switching the breach to short range and the assault to long is the answer. I've been saying this dor a while. Long range = high alpha works on ship to ship snd vehicle combat. It falls apart rapidly with infantry. Yeah definately, was gonna write something about your thread on the OP but it was early in the AM and I couldn't remember who wrote it :<, there is a reason why the original assault weapons were long range though supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3317	Posted - 2014.11.07 21:04:00 - [3] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Fix strafing? How? Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more? TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing? Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield? Adding inertia to infantry. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3317	Posted - 2014.11.07 21:07:00 - [4] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: The basic ar is amazing at cqc. The breach is way overboard though. More and more people are noticing it and usage is shooting though the roof. Even nyain san have switched to them. It is better than the AR because of what I explained and what breakin said. Otherwise they are exactly the same. The main difference is how they perform the same job, the only way to properly nerf the breach is to make it function like the AR, without reducing any numbers but that would just make it obsolete as it would be basically an AR. And no the basic AR is horrible, it's only useful on people that are standing still or at the edge of it's optimal range of 40 meters. At cqc it is only good on low hp targets, or high hp slow targets. The breach can do well against any target. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3317	Posted - 2014.11.07 22:55:00 - [5] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Jathniel wrote: Fix strafing? How? Introducing an impact stun when shot, and lowering TTK even more? TTK is at a decent level right now... and people would hate stun damage. So how do we fix strafing? Perhaps, blurring vision when shot? Like in Battlefield? Adding inertia to infantry. I'm glad you didn't say bullet momentum which was what caused the "stunlock" effect. Adding a bit of inertia to infantry wouldn't be so bad. God no the stunlock effect was horrible, it would be awesome if bound to a grenade or equipment. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3319	Posted - 2014.11.08 02:34:00 - [6] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Breahc should imitate the RR. Long range, low DPS relative to the other AR variants. This is part of the problem. A big part I think is the lower ROF. It's easier to readjust target since the time between shots allows the dispersion and recoil to reset better, meaning its more stable. But regardless, there is a reason people are migrating to it, and its not because they like the sound it makes. I wouldn't find this weapon getting nerfed as long as it's compensated with range and the AR is buffed. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3320	Posted - 2014.11.08 03:55:00 - [7] - Quote JUDASisMYhomeboy wrote: Breach was good before the buff..we told them not to buff it (or at least not as much as they were saying ) go ahead and nerf it. I'll still use it and it will still be good Breach was horrible before it was buffed. Had super low DPS supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3320	Posted - 2014.11.08 05:44:00 - [8] - Quote Suggestion for "fixing" the AR, along with the assault rail rifle taking a more CQC role [needs a range nerf] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcbHsEHX9jNk72PH0_zs6ZLC7oL6DDkOdVMvUTRtU60/edit?usp=sharing supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3322	Posted - 2014.11.08 12:28:00 - [9] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Keep in mind that the breach AR is practically the only viable Gallente weapon that performs the CQ function well, for some reason the normal AR doesn't cut the cake. Also remember that unlike long range engagements where very few weapon can perform, the AR competes with every other weapon in CQ, regardless if they are long range or short range so it needs to be king; and the breach does so. If weapons are to function closely to each other at CQ can you make them function closely at long range? Our weapons also pay a huge price so they can perform slightly better than (almost) all weapons in CQ and that is range, so please nerf as you wish just give us more range. Now the reason why the breach is so much better than the regular AR, even though their stats are 100% identical is the slow rate of fire and high damage per shot, basically how it applies DPS. Unlike the AR where you can strafe it out and force it to lose a huge chunk of it's damage, the slow rof of the breach allows it to compensate for any shots missed by chewing your HP with high bullet damage. Its not merely a function of how powerful it is but that it is the only weapon that can counter strafing and apply it's damage per clip better at short range than any other, and most CQ engagements come down to who is the best ballerina crab. Fix strafing and I bet you anything the AR will be right there where ever the breach lies in your data, along with a lot of other weapon who will become way better. So before you go and "fix" the weapon why not first fix the CQ meta and see where it, along with the other weapons fall into. Another thing is if you nerf this weapon, which apparently is beginning to dominant in CQ wouldn't you be buffing the heavies which your data show dominate the game who are strictly CQ? They are part of the CQ meta also, why not fix them too. Spreadsheet on some ideas for AR changes https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fcbHsEHX9jNk72PH0_zs6ZLC7oL6DDkOdVMvUTRtU60/edit?usp=sharing Hugely unbased and untrue statements.... Some just go past the general observations you could find about the breach AR. Slower ROF makes a weapon harder to use in CQC... Everyone knows that(especially if it has very little dispersion) The plasma rifle still performs as the most reliable default weapon. If anything what the plasma rifles need is an ammo carry amount increase, and have the breach AR have 14% of its base damage removed from basic to proto, and increased dispersion. Problem solved. since you want to lower the dps to just slightly under a prototype rail is the range gonna be 75M? Just wondering. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious