DUST Search - Dust on the Ps4 eventually petition

Meee One wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

el OPERATOR wrote:

NextDark Knight wrote:

I have my reservations about Dust as a PC port. Managing hacking in a competitive environment is my biggest concern. Some of the GPU memory hacks for overlaying and displaying information . I just think the resources required to prevent this on PC can be put to much better use when focused just on console development.

I just wanted to add is I think CCP biggest problem with Dust on PS4 is UE4 not supporting the PS3.. So they are kinda suck in a really ****** place with the engine cause they can't upgrade both at the same time.

I share this sentimemt with regards to PC gamer hacking and the win/loss risk/reward system in place in DUST. Truth is, if hackers hack a BF4 battle on PC, it sucks for the players, but outside of performance stats doesn't really matter. With the economic structure we have here, you grind to earn to play, losses under those circumstances would be catastrophic, especially for new players who'll be subjected to not just character XP and equipment gaps BUT to outside hacking as well. It would be just as devastating for vets also, PC would be a bottomless spiral of ddos attacks, lag spam, actual wallhacking, MAO and whatever the HOTM the script kids learned on you tube that week. The SONY network, while not flawless by any measure does at least provide a helpful level of stability and security against this sort of thing, which in turn creates a more reliable and secure gaming experience.

I'll restate it once more and then let the point rest for now.

If we continue to treat the prospect as an "either or" to things are likely to result
A) Divided community support reduces the likelihood of a port gaining the momentum it needs to actually happen.
B) It is my impression that if there is an 'either or' choice forced on this issue PC is substantially more likely to happen.

As previously stated there are valid concerns to be raised with both platforms but not only does dividing the community not resolve those concerns it hinders other positive motion.

0.02 ISK
Cross

While it's nice you pander to your voters,being wishy-washy won't serve but to frustrate them,and yourself.

One very important fact you seem to be forgetting is: updates.

One platform = waiting on sony -or- update as frequently as you want
Two platforms = waiting on sony and update as frequently as you want (?)

Lolno.
If it goes to two platforms it messes up any updates.
PC would be ahead,while consoles would be behind.
Or,PC updates would be stalled to ensure it stays the same as consoles'.
Or consoles/PCs exclusively would be updates as frequently as possible with little to no stalling.

A choice needs to be made,'everyone can have everything they want' is speech lying politicians use to get re-elected.


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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3781	Posted - 2014.11.13 19:47:00 - [1] - Quote I support Dust 514 making its way to the PS4 and PC. Choosing one over the other is, to me, somewhat lackluster as I know members of the community already who are continuing their gaming 'post PS3' on one but not the other platform. Less than both locks out members of the community. Having said that I am interested in the level of community support for seeing Dust 514 make its way to next gen console and PC? This is something that I ran on as CPM (continued access to the game via both platforms) as there was a lot of support for it at the time, is this still something the player base feels strongly about? See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3785	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:22:00 - [2] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Sorry, Dust is a console game.. Legion is a gimmick to get CCP Dev support. Eveside should top down control us Pawns.. You need to ask yourself what has to happen to get Dust on both XBone and PS4? Stop the hate today and more players for us all. We don't need to ask about the requirements for xBox, because one of them is Microsoft taking control of the game servers which CCP has flatly stated they are unwilling to consider (not that I blame them, I'm not a fan of MS taking control of my computers either I'm looking at you and your painful UI Windows 8 ). What would need to happen for Dust 514 to arrive on PS4? Community support for Dust and for such a migration. To be specific when I say support I mean all of the following. Player activity in game Player activity in the feedback cycle via constructive posts (i.e. non hyperbolic rage fests in caps) Talking about the game in a positive way on/off line (of course we're not talking about being dishonest here of obfuscating the truth as both of those are a waste of time, but simply presenting what you like about the game for what it is, no more, no less) Profitability. A company, gaming or otherwise, will rarely if ever abandon a profitable product. For the same reasons that a company will rarely if ever invest more money into a product/project which is running a sustained loss. Beyond community support Dust 514 on PS4 would likely call for a migration from UE3 to UE4 and that investment would take a hefty amount of Dev time, underscoring the value of and need for community support. As to Dust 514 on PC it is already developed there (that's how games are developed) and the game already supports various interface devices so no hitch there, the major short fall might be fully using the hardware a PC can offer which brings us back to a migration from UE3 to UE4. In short, much of the cost of migration for Dust from PS3 to PS4 or PC would be overlapping and much of the required means (i.e. community support) would be overlapping as well. To me the natural choice is, if the community support is there, eventually bring Dust 514 to both platforms thus increasing the possible player base and not leaving folks behind based on their preference for hardware upgrade (PS4 or PC). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3785	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:27:00 - [3] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I support Dust 514 making its way to the PS4 and PC. Agreed. The issue is when CCP chooses one: it should be the direct successor of the first platform if only one is allowed. I don't mind if Dust is on PC; I jut want to be able to play on the PS4. If it comes to a choice of only one, it is - to be blunt - most likely to be the PC simply because it is a lower recourse investment to deploy on the same hardware type as you develop. This is, in part, why I am so opposed to the notion of our community focusing on a debate of "which one to choose". I believe we can most effectively make either happen by supporting the current game and by advocating that both happen. Others may disagree with me, but I would rather fight with the whole community for the whole community than divide the community against itself to fight about "which one" rather than devoting our energy to making a migration happen in the first place. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3788	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:33:00 - [4] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Nope. #PCMasterRace Pretty much... If Legion ever goes to the PS4 it should be well after a successful launch on PC... even then, I'm not sure why CCP would choose to port it over. Quick note here; While I would support seeing Legion on both PS4 and PC, I would support even more seeing Dust and our current player base on PC and PS4, a true migration rather than a translation. Some may think I am off base for this, but I want our game to continue and thrive even past the PS3 and I am not ready to consign the future of Dust to simply being the predecessor to legion The reasons why CCP would port Dust to both platforms boils down to "there's enough support to warrant it", if the numbers show there is an active community and Dust 514 is a profitable game I see no reason why it should not continue past the PS3. Some will say, I am sure, that I'm tilting at windmills here but regardless this is something I support and want to see happen. 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Clone, I like my hashtag better #DustIsDustsFuture See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3788	Posted - 2014.11.13 20:34:00 - [5] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Cross Atu wrote: If it comes to a choice of only one, it is - to be blunt - most likely to be the PC simply because it is a lower recourse investment to deploy on the same hardware type as you develop. This is, in part, why I am so opposed to the notion of our community focusing on a debate of "which one to choose". I agree, I just feel that without the console involvement the game would be of substantially less value in the FPS market. Yep, both platforms bring some real value to the table, now we just need to show that via the community support so that CCP sees it too. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3788	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:05:00 - [6] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Assuming a Legion green light, wouldn't it technically be easier to port that to the PS4? I'm not sure that's the case, porting an active game to a new platform isn't more resource intensive than building an entirely new game. But my tech savvy only goes so far so maybe I'm mistaken. Quote: Or are we just using Dust/Legion interchangeably? Won't speak for anyone else but I at least am not using them interchangeably. I will not claim never to have done so in the past, but I am unlikely to be doing so in the future. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3789	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:12:00 - [7] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Cross Atu wrote: While I would support seeing Legion on both PS4 and PC, I would support even more seeing Dust and our current player base on PC and PS4, a true migration rather than a translation. Some may think I am off base for this, but I want our game to continue and thrive even past the PS3 and I am not ready to consign the future of Dust to simply being the predecessor to legion The reasons why CCP would port Dust to both platforms boils down to "there's enough support to warrant it", if the numbers show there is an active community and Dust 514 is a profitable game I see no reason why it should not continue past the PS3. Hey Cross You were around for the fallout from FF this year right? To wonder if there is support makes me think you know most of that disappeared after this. To know if there could be that support? Again, look at the madness after FF. You know there could be. I know recently since 1.9 Lightning xVx has asked CCP about a PS4 version. There are gonna be many many other ex-dusters that would be back. Whether those vitriol-spouting, all-caps raging ones are part of the problem you (CCP) don't want I don't know, but that sort of mentality will almost always exist in any game, with a very few exceptions. If 1.10 is on the cards in the next few months (don't call it 2.0 unless it deserves major version change status), and there is talk of a 1.11 after that (again in terms of months) then you might just find out the answer to your question. People already came back for a bit of 1.9. BUT THAT'S JUST ME! Yeah I've been around since closed beta so I was here for the debacle at Fanfest. And you are right I personally already feel that the answer to my question "is there enough support" is a resounding yes. However persuading someone, let alone a company which also has to look at the opportunity cost, that it is the right move takes more than my say so it takes community posts, people buying AUR, people queing into matches, et al I'm not saying I expect gamers not to rage, that's a thing nine times out of ten, but what I am saying is that the rage doesn't contribute in any meaningfully positive way to the goal of proving support for Dust beyond the PS3, savvy? I find my thoughts to be very much in line with yours regarding the possibilities and effects of things like a 1.10 patch, but the more posts from folks who think/feel the same the more I am able to show/underscore that support. In essence what I am saying here is while actions speak louder than words there is no reason why we shouldn't use both Thanks for the reply Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3789	Posted - 2014.11.13 21:38:00 - [8] - Quote @Next I am sure that people can come up with various concerns regarding either platform but regardless of the validity there of making it a zero sum choice is in my view a profoundly losing proposition as it turns the community in on itself directly energy away from making a migration a reality. Better to focus on having a transition happen than on playing internal tug-of-war about "which one" when we have yet to lock down if there will be one at all, making it a zero sum game when it doesn't have to be seems very likely to result in a hobbled effort that is less likely to see fruition. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3789	Posted - 2014.11.13 22:58:00 - [9] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: Cross, I support any forward momentum of dust/legion to pc or ps4. If we make a communal petition thread for those in support abd we rally the player base to sign only in thread that it would make a difference to ccp? Such a thread on its own? Likely not, however such posts and thread in addition to other continued forms of activity and support? Yes I believe it could. At the very least I can promise that I'll be passing these statements up the chain and using them to underscore the community support for Dusts continued future even beyond the PS3. In essence as long as the game is strong the desires of the community to have it continue are something I think have a real opportunity for traction. Worth expressing and making that push IMO. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3792	Posted - 2014.11.14 03:15:00 - [10] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I have my reservations about Dust as a PC port. Managing hacking in a competitive environment is my biggest concern. Some of the GPU memory hacks for overlaying and displaying information . I just think the resources required to prevent this on PC can be put to much better use when focused just on console development. I just wanted to add is I think CCP biggest problem with Dust on PS4 is UE4 not supporting the PS3.. So they are kinda suck in a really ****** place with the engine cause they can't upgrade both at the same time. I share this sentimemt with regards to PC gamer hacking and the win/loss risk/reward system in place in DUST. Truth is, if hackers hack a BF4 battle on PC, it sucks for the players, but outside of performance stats doesn't really matter. With the economic structure we have here, you grind to earn to play, losses under those circumstances would be catastrophic, especially for new players who'll be subjected to not just character XP and equipment gaps BUT to outside hacking as well. It would be just as devastating for vets also, PC would be a bottomless spiral of ddos attacks, lag spam, actual wallhacking, MAO and whatever the HOTM the script kids learned on you tube that week. The SONY network, while not flawless by any measure does at least provide a helpful level of stability and security against this sort of thing, which in turn creates a more reliable and secure gaming experience. I'll restate it once more and then let the point rest for now. If we continue to treat the prospect as an "either or" to things are likely to result A) Divided community support reduces the likelihood of a port gaining the momentum it needs to actually happen. B) It is my impression that if there is an 'either or' choice forced on this issue PC is substantially more likely to happen. As previously stated there are valid concerns to be raised with both platforms but not only does dividing the community not resolve those concerns it hinders other positive motion. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3799	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:51:00 - [11] - Quote Meee One wrote: Cross Atu wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I have my reservations about Dust as a PC port. Managing hacking in a competitive environment is my biggest concern. Some of the GPU memory hacks for overlaying and displaying information . I just think the resources required to prevent this on PC can be put to much better use when focused just on console development. I just wanted to add is I think CCP biggest problem with Dust on PS4 is UE4 not supporting the PS3.. So they are kinda suck in a really **** place with the engine cause they can't upgrade both at the same time. I share this sentimemt with regards to PC gamer hacking and the win/loss risk/reward system in place in DUST. Truth is, if hackers hack a BF4 battle on PC, it sucks for the players, but outside of performance stats doesn't really matter. With the economic structure we have here, you grind to earn to play, losses under those circumstances would be catastrophic, especially for new players who'll be subjected to not just character XP and equipment gaps BUT to outside hacking as well. It would be just as devastating for vets also, PC would be a bottomless spiral of ddos attacks, lag spam, actual wallhacking, MAO and whatever the HOTM the script kids learned on you tube that week. The SONY network, while not flawless by any measure does at least provide a helpful level of stability and security against this sort of thing, which in turn creates a more reliable and secure gaming experience. I'll restate it once more and then let the point rest for now. If we continue to treat the prospect as an "either or" to things are likely to result A) Divided community support reduces the likelihood of a port gaining the momentum it needs to actually happen. B) It is my impression that if there is an 'either or' choice forced on this issue PC is substantially more likely to happen. As previously stated there are valid concerns to be raised with both platforms but not only does dividing the community not resolve those concerns it hinders other positive motion. 0.02 ISK Cross While it's nice you pander to your voters,being wishy-washy won't serve but to frustrate them,and yourself. One very important fact you seem to be forgetting is: updates. One platform = waiting on sony -or- update as frequently as you want Two platforms = waiting on sony and** update as frequently as you want (?) Lolno. If it goes to two platforms it messes up any updates. PC would be ahead,while consoles would be behind. Or,PC updates would be stalled to ensure it stays the same as consoles'. Or consoles/PCs exclusively would be updates as frequently as possible with little to no stalling. A choice needs to be made,'everyone can have everything they want' is speech lying politicians use to get re-elected. Update disparity is a matter of a few weeks for games like Warframe and according the last information CCP had gained Sony approval for a more streamlined approval process with regards to Dust 514 so that "update lag" for PS4 would be even less in all likelihood. Even if it were not such a small time window it is my view that PC players waiting a few extra weeks before a new update is deployed (they could still log in to the test server and try out the new patch, file bug reports, etc, which would actually provide value in and of itself ensuring fewer broken mechanics make it to the live server) is a comparatively small price to pay for not excluding the PS4 community. Even for the PC players themselves having the higher overall player population and larger community supporting the game is directly beneficial. The idea that sacrificing - both now and in the future - a meaningful portion of this community and its support for the game just to avoid a week or two delay when new patches roll out is either needed or on balance superior to a policy of overall inclusiveness is, to be utterly blunt, short sighted. If however the community here proves more fixated on choosing up sides for the "platform wars" than on making sure a platform migration happens in the first place, well there is nothing I can do about that except shake my head and hope the unnecessary conflict of it does not hurt the games future too badly. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3862	Posted - 2014.11.15 21:48:00 - [12] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I have my reservations about Dust as a PC port. Managing hacking in a competitive environment is my biggest concern. Some of the GPU memory hacks for overlaying and displaying information . I just think the resources required to prevent this on PC can be put to much better use when focused just on console development. I just wanted to add is I think CCP biggest problem with Dust on PS4 is UE4 not supporting the PS3.. So they are kinda suck in a really **** place with the engine cause they can't upgrade both at the same time. I share this sentimemt with regards to PC gamer hacking and the win/loss risk/reward system in place in DUST. Truth is, if hackers hack a BF4 battle on PC, it sucks for the players, but outside of performance stats doesn't really matter. With the economic structure we have here, you grind to earn to play, losses under those circumstances would be catastrophic, especially for new players who'll be subjected to not just character XP and equipment gaps BUT to outside hacking as well. It would be just as devastating for vets also, PC would be a bottomless spiral of ddos attacks, lag spam, actual wallhacking, MAO and whatever the HOTM the script kids learned on you tube that week. The SONY network, while not flawless by any measure does at least provide a helpful level of stability and security against this sort of thing, which in turn creates a more reliable and secure gaming experience. ^ This is the number one reason not to port. Number one problem with DUST right now, that complicates it's acceptance as a competitive game is the "high latency". CCP needs to protect their game! Just to be utterly clear a port is required for the game to survive past PS3. Regardless of what platform (or hopefully platforms) it is ported to a port will be needed regardless. CCPs background and specialty is in PC games. The server that hosts Dust 514 is a PC game server (TQ which is also the setting for EVE: Online) The likelihood that CCP would turn their backs on their more experienced medium (the PC) and launch an entirely new server for the sake of a ported title is exceedingly small (they did not launch a new server for Dust 514 during its closed beta, it's open beta, or it's launch, the assumption that they would take on the costs to do so now, as well as the additional coding burden to rewrite the game such that it no longer needs TQ to play, is based on all my understanding and information a deeply flawed** assumption with minimal - if any - chance of taking place). Dust 514 is still growing and developing but it has also taken quite a few hits along the way and while I am not ready to write off the possibility of a port it is also not a given at our present place in events and - to reiterate again - if we as a community are more fixated on fighting over "which platform" to port to then any port loses out because our energy is being siphoned away from supporting the game and supporting a future for it. I cannot stop players on the internet for fixating on a self-defeating argument but make no mistake a focus on forcing the conversation regarding Dusts future to become one about 'a single platform' is a very self defeating argument indeed. And to reiterate one more thing, if it *does* come down to a forced choice AFAIK that choice will be PC due to the factors I have outlined above, there simply isn't much "if" about that as far as I can tell. I am doing my best to work and show CCP that there is value in a port and a future for Dust 514 beyond the PS3 but quite frankly if the community remains dead set on fighting over which platform then my efforts in this regard re directly undercut. To steal a historical quote "A house divided against itself cannot stand," obviously the context for the original is much more weighty than an internet game, but the concept applies just the same. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3891	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:44:00 - [13] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Cross, I like everything your saying. Yet, Explain how you know that asking for more console support is s self defeating argument. Get some blue tags and facts and we can help get behind you. Otherwise, We know that Dust 514 as it stands can be updated and with the right kind of support lots of the rough edges can be worked out and positioned as not a deprecating game but a game that will continue to live on and first of it's kind. Really who cares if we know the road map for Dust as half the gamers won't even bother reading it anyway and good luck other companies trying to capitalize on building thier own New Eden universe. As it stands I love this game but there is more company love given to that Roberts game then given to Dust by it's own companies Devs and public comments. We want to know that CCP loves and is committed to Dust just as much as we are.. not just as gamers but as people invested in the New Edan experience. Judging by your post I may have given a somewhat incorrect impression, allow me to elaborate/contextualize. My comments are about the long term future of Dust 514 past the PS3. For the more immediate future continued patching and support right here on the PS3 is, to me, the obvious choice. This focus on PS3 advancement of the game for the near term (say next several months or more) is essentially requisite to any future plans as well so must not be overlooked. All of my statements about porting are aimed at more distant days. Since before closed beta it has been obvious that the original ten year vision CCP announced for Dust 514 would not be taking place solely on the PS3 and it is this later part, the eventual migration that we've always known would need to happen someday, to which I am referring. As to self defeating arguments the point is simple, any argument which requires a high level of community support thrive becomes self defeating if it also pits the community against itself. Thus all "we should only X" arguments with regards to platform are self defeating because the net result is less focused community support and with less overall support/community confidence in the game and investment of time/money into the game the development team has less to work with and the possibility of any port becomes more remote. Think of it like pulling a cart up a hill, there are three hills we could climb, "PS4 only", "PC only", or "both". These are steep hills and the cart is heavy so we'll really need our combined efforts to have a solid shot at getting up any of the hills. If we choose "both" then all of us can put or backs into climbing the hill and we have a real shot of getting there. On the other hand if we are busy fighting over which of the other two hills to go for then we have some people pulling 'left' some people pulling 'right' and not only to both groups have a smaller total number pulling us up the hill but their efforts start to cancel each other out as well. That is, to put it mildly, less than idea. ^This example is likely too symbolic for the tastes of some so I must apologize that I am not in a position at this time to supply something more. Some of my motives are derived from NDA aspects but this does not make me "magical" and most of my stance is one I have held for a long time even prior to running for CPM, and everyone has flaws in their judgments and perceptions. So, take my statements for what they are worth and consider their weight based on your own individual perception of my judgment/honest assessments thus far. As always I highly advocate each individual coming to their own personal conclusion. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)