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An observation

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Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18770	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:23:00 - [1] - Quote So I was mucking about with Calscout fits and eventually came up with this: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/230/4141 Scout Ck.0: ACR Ishnoks Flux grenade 4x complex shield extender 2x complex profile dampeners ARN-18 cloak field K-2 nanohive I looked at the shield stats, thought they were very strong, then decided to have a look at a Calassault fit of equal tier. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/230/7115 The low slots can be mucked about with a bit but it doesn't change much. Quibbling over exact weaponry and equipment aside, I did a little comparison. Here is what the Calassault gets over the Calscout: + 170 shield HP, slightly more armour Here is what the Calscout gets over the Calassault: + Higher shield regen + Lower shield delays + Higher move speed + Better scan precision + Complete invisibility to scans + Cloak + The ability to effectively use knives (a way to deal with the heavy spam) + 45m passive scan + Smaller hitbox + Two equipment Why would one choose the Calassault over the Calscout when the Calscout is so blatantly superior in so many aspects? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13056	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:25:00 - [2] - Quote Well according to Rattati's PC statistics, they don't. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 377	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:25:00 - [3] - Quote (insert trivial info about the cal scout and assault that is presented in a manner that apparently justifies choosing the assault over the scout here) Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18770	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:25:00 - [4] - Quote Perhaps more importantly, will the upcoming fixes address this kind of issue? This is by no means limited to this single comparison. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Zaria Min Deir TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 822	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why would one choose the Calassault over the Calscout when the Calscout is so blatantly superior in so many aspects? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2942	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:32:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: So I was mucking about with Calscout fits and eventually came up with this: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/230/4141 Scout Ck.0: ACR Ishnoks Flux grenade 4x complex shield extender 2x complex profile dampeners ARN-18 cloak field K-2 nanohive I looked at the shield stats, thought they were very strong, then decided to have a look at a Calassault fit of equal tier. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/230/7115 The low slots can be mucked about with a bit but it doesn't change much. Quibbling over exact weaponry and equipment aside, I did a little comparison. Here is what the Calassault gets over the Calscout: + 170 shield HP, slightly more armour Here is what the Calscout gets over the Calassault: + Higher shield regen + Lower shield delays + Higher move speed + Better scan precision + Complete invisibility to scans + Cloak + The ability to effectively use knives (a way to deal with the heavy spam) + 45m passive scan + Smaller hitbox + Two equipment Why would one choose the Calassault over the Calscout when the Calscout is so blatantly superior in so many aspects? I use CalAssault because I have the Raven BPO... I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
hfderrtgvcd 1077	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:33:00 - [7] - Quote 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Major IMPACT Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 29	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:35:00 - [8] - Quote Also thought about it. To tell you the truth, you really dont need to tank, all you have to do is to fit shield extenders, and be able to move around to dodge the bullets- that's why it is so messed up. EWAR makes you stronger Stand a little taller Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18774	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:35:00 - [9] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. It's not nearly 300 HP. Depending on the fitting they could both have proto weapons. Quote: The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. This is simply untrue. If you get the drop on someone with 150 HP more than you and you lose while having smaller hitbox and faster strafe, you did something horribly, horribly wrong. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14256	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:36:00 - [10] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. Not using Nova Knives and Cloak "HeGÇÖs sorry. ThatGÇÖs his sorry faceGÇª. Just keep quiet for now and maybe you'll get through this." -Kador Ouryon

Forlorn Destrier Havok Dynasty 2942	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:38:00 - [11] - Quote Major IMPACT wrote: Also thought about it. To tell you the truth, you really dont need to tank, all you have to do is to fit shield extenders, and be able to move around to dodge the bullets- that's why it is so messed up. Um... shield extenders = tank.... your comment is illogical... I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
xavier zor G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 173	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:39:00 - [12] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. Wrong. Scouts win 1v1 every other suit due to strafing speed...and lose if that scout was a bad shot or the assault he was killing was kazuika sniper (I killed him last match :D) scout ck.0 here!
hfderrtgvcd 1077	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:42:00 - [13] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. It's not nearly 300 HP. Depending on the fitting they could both have proto weapons. Quote: The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. This is simply untrue. If you get the drop on someone with 150 HP more than you and you lose while having smaller hitbox and faster strafe, you did something horribly, horribly wrong. Not only that but actually the assault would probably die instantly if the scout got the drop on them because knives. 828 - 540 = 288 hp. That makes far more of a difference than a slightly smaller hitbox and slightly faster strafe speed. If you replace the damp for a plate the gap gets even bigger. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18781	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:51:00 - [14] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: 828 - 540 = 288 hp. That makes far more of a difference than a slightly smaller hitbox and slightly faster strafe speed. If you replace the damp for a plate the gap gets even bigger. Half of that HP is armour HP which doesn't regen nearly as qwell as the shield HP and is worth less as a result. You're quite right - if you replace the damp for a plate, the gap does get wider! You get even slower and can be picked up by all scans instead of just most scans, for that bit of low-regeneration HP. This HP is also not nearly enough to survive the Calscout getting the drop on the Calassault as per your original scenario seeing as the Calassault will still die almost instantly to the knives. It is also of course laughably easy for the Calscout to manage an ambush given that the Calscout's scans. The only situation in which the Calscout will lose to the Calassault is if they both stand directly in front of each other or the Calscout screws up horribly. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13059	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:52:00 - [15] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. It's not nearly 300 HP. Depending on the fitting they could both have proto weapons. Quote: The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. This is simply untrue. If you get the drop on someone with 150 HP more than you and you lose while having smaller hitbox and faster strafe, you did something horribly, horribly wrong. Not only that but actually the assault would probably die instantly if the scout got the drop on them because knives. 828 - 540 = 288 hp. That makes far more of a difference than a slightly smaller hitbox and slightly faster strafe speed. If you replace the damp for a plate the gap gets even bigger. "Slightly" The scout is like half the size of the Assault, and the strafing isn't even comparable. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4975	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:52:00 - [16] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168847 I-Shayz-I wrote: The most surprising thing I found out in this experiment was what it takes to increase the Assault's stats to scout levels. To make an Assault that has similar stats as a base proto scout with bonuses you need: -1 Enhanced Energizer -2 Complex Precision Mods -1 Advanced Precision Mod -1 Complex Dampener -1 Enhanced Kin Cat -1 Complex Shield Regulator -2 Complex Range Amp -1 Basic Range Amp -CPU and PG Mods To make a Scout that has similar stats as a base Assault?: -Complex Shield Extender -Basic Shield Extender -Enhanced Ferroscale Plate Crazy huh? This was before they buffed Assaults...but it seems like the same base issue is still present From my post 1.9 experience, I can at least kill caldari scouts with 3 shots from a mass driver, assaults take anywhere from 4-7 shots depending on how much armor they decide to tank (seriously why the ** is this even a thing) My bolt pistol has a tough time on basic assaults too, while caldari scouts still drop in 2 hits guaranteed. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18781	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:54:00 - [17] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168847 This was before they buffed Assaults...but it seems like the same base issue is still present Good thread there. Well, scout dominance is nothing new. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Seigfried Warheit 373	Posted - 2014.11.06 23:58:00 - [18] - Quote I choose the assault cause I have had my CalAss forever since I started and <3 that bug eyed slitted freaked, I'm stupid, its a fun suit , I'm stupid and also really like the way my CalAssualt looks that simple military look also.... dat utility belt. I have a CalScout I rarely use....Ill break it out sometimes cause I like to prance around in my battle heels (... which they have for some reason) also in case of scout spam I go scout. Who I am kidding? Ill still go assault most of the time with scout spam cause I'm stupid and really <3 my CalAss suit. I am a prof. V scrub. I have no honor The best strategy is not to wear pants My Skills = a fresh blueberry
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4975	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:00:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168847 This was before they buffed Assaults...but it seems like the same base issue is still present Good thread there. Well, scout dominance is nothing new. Here's the spreadsheet I used with the stats if you didn't catch that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByYUjq_P9RY0Zlc1NzJrcFBWcDA/edit 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
BlazeXYZ G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 305	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:00:00 - [20] - Quote Exactly.... I was like so pumped to get the caldari assault then I saw sax's vids. I was like dang he makes the assault look like a flaylock with .01 splash. The Blazing Intellect Machine

Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1134	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:12:00 - [21] - Quote this is because the assault should be able to achieve better regen delay. the old cal logi with reg bonuses got to around .5 of a second or so my tester told me. im not sure what the actual decimal is. but the cal assault needs a lower regen delay and a reg bonus. cal assault needs 2-3 seconds and 5-6 on the depleted. then a 5 or 7.5 per level bonus to regs. scout shield hp/s and regen spits on cal assault and its the assault suit lol. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
hfderrtgvcd 1077	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:15:00 - [22] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: this is because the assault should be able to achieve better regen delay. the old cal logi with reg bonuses got to around .5 of a second or so my tester told me. im not sure what the actual decimal is. but the cal assault needs a lower regen delay and a reg bonus. cal assault needs 2-3 seconds and 5-6 on the depleted. then a 5 or 7.5 per level bonus to regs. scout shield hp/s and regen spits on cal assault and its the assault suit lol. same needs to happen for all the assault tbh. Or, at the very least the minmatar You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1134	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:38:00 - [23] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: this is because the assault should be able to achieve better regen delay. the old cal logi with reg bonuses got to around .5 of a second or so my tester told me. im not sure what the actual decimal is. but the cal assault needs a lower regen delay and a reg bonus. cal assault needs 2-3 seconds and 5-6 on the depleted. then a 5 or 7.5 per level bonus to regs. scout shield hp/s and regen spits on cal assault and its the assault suit lol. same needs to happen for all the assault tbh. Or, at the very least the minmatar all specialized suits need to be overhauled. 2 bonuses for standard suits. racial weapon bonus and equipment bonus. (currently 0) 4 bonuses for specialized suits with a 5th role bonus. 2 tank bonuses and 2 weapons bonuses and 1 trait bonus for the assault. (currently 3) and clear roles for each suit. so first 2 bonuses come from standard medium suit. you get it to 3 and go assault. then the assault suit skill raises the last 2 bonuses on the suit. 2 skills to increase the ammount of sp to perfect the suit and enough skills that make it useful. also help basic mediums compete cause they get 2 bonuses from the first skill as well. all bonuses are solely in the suit and raise based on skill levels. just like ships in eve. example. cal assault get 4% shield hp per level. max 20% either total or to shield mods. thats 1 then they get 5% or 7.5% to say shield regs. thats 2. so at rank 3 medium that would be 15% more shield, 15-22.5% better regen delay. (minmatar will get the other bonus. if cal gets 5 then mig gets 7.5 and if cal gets 7.5 then min gets 5) now assault skills would be 2 weapons bonuses. say the reload bonus if they want to keep it. and a range or recoil bonus to hybrid weapons. these would apply seperately from the first 2 by going off the assault suit skill. they can mix them however they want. maybe take regen and range and make it the assault bonuses, and use the less effective hp and reload bonus as the first 2. then give it an overall role bonus to kincats/cardiac regulators. or something like that. then on scout give it dampening, scanning range, cloak recharge-duaration bonuses. movement speed. but lower its ability to tank. any kind of mix of ewar mechanics. so you know how both are supposed to be used. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 352	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:49:00 - [24] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. My bricked Cal Scout ck0 see's you before you could ever get the jump on me. I honestly don't run the suit anymore because it feels like cheating. Only when there's scout spam in the match does it come out. EDIT: As a comparison I run it with a little over 600HP with two complex precision enhancers which lets me see almost all other scouts with a built in 40m range. My assault ck0 has 800 HP and can't see **** but does have damage mods and allotec hives. I do way better when I run my Scout...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 836	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:52:00 - [25] - Quote This same thing can be applied to all of the scouts tbh. Swag-suit4lyfe!
D4GG3R 493	Posted - 2014.11.07 00:55:00 - [26] - Quote This whole thing seems silly. There's no scenario where I would ever run that on my assault suit. They are different roles, you compare the same fit on two suits that are not intended to be used the same way. It's nonsense I'm pretty plain. I watch anime for the boobs
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18809	Posted - 2014.11.07 07:03:00 - [27] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: This same thing can be applied to all of the scouts tbh. Yep. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 322	Posted - 2014.11.07 07:14:00 - [28] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: 300 hp plus a proto light weapon is a pretty good reason to pick the assault. It's not nearly 300 HP. Depending on the fitting they could both have proto weapons. Quote: The scout will lose in a 1vs1 with the assault every time, even if it gets the drop. This is simply untrue. If you get the drop on someone with 150 HP more than you and you lose while having smaller hitbox and faster strafe, you did something horribly, horribly wrong. Not only that but actually the assault would probably die instantly if the scout got the drop on them because knives. 828 - 540 = 288 hp. That makes far more of a difference than a slightly smaller hitbox and slightly faster strafe speed. If you replace the damp for a plate the gap gets even bigger. Not at all true. The speed difference when strafing alone on the scout is worth far more than 300 ehp. The smaller hitbox puts it in a whole other league.
Vicious Minotaur 1288	Posted - 2014.11.07 07:22:00 - [29] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why would one choose the Calassault over the Calscout when the Calscout is so blatantly superior in so many aspects? How about because you don't run proto suits all day with maxed cores? I haven't done the 'on-paper' math, but my anecdotal 'in-practice' experience with my basic Caldari Scout&Assault fittings tell me that the Caldari scout is anything but blatantly superior at sub-proto levels. I am a minotaur.
Songs of Seraphim Murphys-Law 41	Posted - 2014.11.07 07:37:00 - [30] - Quote The specialized medium frames should have lower delays than their slimmer counterparts. Logistics should have lower delays (by a second or two), but the Assaults should have more regenerative capabilities. Thirty shields per second is a joke compared to the Scout. And the delay on the ck.0 Sentinel? "You fluxed me? ***, let me hide around this corner for 2 seconds to invalidate that. And BOOM full shields. Lol" As an assault, I get fluxed and have to wait around 3 seconds so my shields can start repping. With 2 regulators. My scout? fluxed* "Oh, I'm at 87 armor and no shields. Lolol jk" This is an issue, which is prevalent in comparing the scout to assaults and logistics. Until something is altered in the way the shield delays and recovery is done between these three suits, I'll be able to assault better with my scout. Raging alcoholic. I play in a pink suit because it's the fabulous thing to do.



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