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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13046
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Posted - 2014.11.06 18:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
...Due to sidearms.
There are no sidearms with a range longer than 60m, meaning that there is no sidearm to cover for the Plasma Rifle's weakness, while pretty much all the sidearms are built to operate within short-medium ranges.
This means that operators of weapons like the Rail Rifle can operate at any range if they need to.
If a Plasma Rifle operator needs to engage at ranges longer than his Plasma Rifle... Nothing he can do but go back to the supply depot.
-Just an observation, take from this what you will.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Darrius Smithmage
56
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sorry I'm not seeing the issue explain more please if you can?
CalFW roleplayer I'm the calmando power ranger run from my megazord the state gunlogi >:D. Kirjuun Heiian Player.
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Spectral Clone
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3054
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Use TAC AR and stop QQing damnit, gallente is OP and you know it ;)
EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13051
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Use TAC AR and stop QQing damnit, gallente is OP and you know it ;)
Gallente is OP unless you look at statistics and math :)
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13051
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Darrius Smithmage wrote:Sorry I'm not seeing the issue explain more please if you can?
I'm not saying it's an issue, it's just a fact.
Long range weapons have a short range backup.
Close range weapons don't have a long range backup.
Long range weapon users can deal with more situations as needed.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1563
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:...Due to sidearms.
There are no sidearms with a range longer than 60m, meaning that there is no sidearm to cover for the Plasma Rifle's weakness, while pretty much all the sidearms are built to operate within short-medium ranges.
This means that operators of weapons like the Rail Rifle can operate at any range if they need to.
If a Plasma Rifle operator needs to engage at ranges longer than his Plasma Rifle... Nothing he can do but go back to the supply depot.
-Just an observation, take from this what you will.
Surprisingly I'm actually willing to agree with you on this. The problem with the rail rifle is its range, nothing else. The hipfire kick didn't nerf the rail in any 'meaningful' way other than making it incredibly frustrating to use. Undo kick, reduce range.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
8239
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Are you proposing an Neutron Pistol?
I'd be down with that.
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Darrius Smithmage
56
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ah OK know I see what you mean.
CalFW roleplayer I'm the calmando power ranger run from my megazord the state gunlogi >:D. Kirjuun Heiian Player.
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
563
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quad damp your scout and shot him in the back..
Ask around some one else might have some other great solution.
If you hadn't noticed yet.. it seams like the frame rate increase has nerfed rail tech to the floor.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox.
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Darrius Smithmage
56
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Posted - 2014.11.06 19:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Quad damp your scout and shot him in the back..
Ask around some one else might have some other great solution.
If you hadn't noticed yet.. it seams like the frame rate increase has nerfed rail tech to the floor.
I'm not see how frame rate changes made it worse I'm still getting plenty of kills with it and not feeding.
CalFW roleplayer I'm the calmando power ranger run from my megazord the state gunlogi >:D. Kirjuun Heiian Player.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4385
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Are you proposing an Neutron Pistol?
I'd be down with that.
Neutron SMG please. |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
4385
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Quad damp your scout and shot him in the back..
Ask around some one else might have some other great solution.
If you hadn't noticed yet.. it seams like the frame rate increase has nerfed rail tech to the floor.
In a Gallente Scout, two CPX Dampeners is enough to dodge all but one combination in scanning... 4 would be a waste. |
KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
5810
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:...Due to sidearms.
There are no sidearms with a range longer than 60m, meaning that there is no sidearm to cover for the Plasma Rifle's weakness, while pretty much all the sidearms are built to operate within short-medium ranges.
This means that operators of weapons like the Rail Rifle can operate at any range if they need to.
If a Plasma Rifle operator needs to engage at ranges longer than his Plasma Rifle... Nothing he can do but go back to the supply depot.
-Just an observation, take from this what you will.
Agreed. Not to mention yesterday i got killed consistently by HMG's at 40+ mts.
People whining about Ar's are silly....
The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4567
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Long range weapons have a short range backup.
Close range weapons don't have a long range backup. You aren't technically wrong, but short range weaponry has the advantage of remaining effective indoors.
My advice to you, playa...
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14248
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Races with Tanks are undeniably superior IN GAME to those that don't.....except the Gallente and Caldari.
Cuz Amarr are just better.
GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥
GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥
- Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2041
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'll tell you what: You keep your RR and SMG (or whatever sidearm you choose). I'll take a BAR or CR, simply evade you at long range, and kill you at medium to short ranges. Good luck using that sidearm.
There is no place to hide from DPS up close. You can hide from it when afar. That's what your analysis is missing, if I may be so bold. |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13052
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:I'll tell you what: You keep your RR and SMG (or whatever sidearm you choose). I'll take a BAR or CR, simply evade you at long range, and kill you at medium to short ranges. Good luck using that sidearm -- I won't even need it.
There is no place to hide from DPS up close. You can hide from it when afar. That's what your analysis is missing, if I may be so bold.
...Have you looked at what the majority of the maps look like?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2041
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
No, Cat, I'm completely ignorant of the maps. 
Sure they have an inherrent advantage, but they also have a huge disadvantage that was just made quite a bit worse with the hotfix this morning.
Moving past that, if the RR is so good, why was usuckatdust vaghenitian (sp?) the only person I've seen using it with any effect in PC in months?
Please, keep using your RR. It kills noobs just fine.
However, you only make for a loud and easy target that has little chance if I get within my range, and you'll likely never see me coming much less time to pull the sidarm. |
jace silencerww
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
78
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:...Due to sidearms.
There are no sidearms with a range longer than 60m, meaning that there is no sidearm to cover for the Plasma Rifle's weakness, while pretty much all the sidearms are built to operate within short-medium ranges.
This means that operators of weapons like the Rail Rifle can operate at any range if they need to.
If a Plasma Rifle operator needs to engage at ranges longer than his Plasma Rifle... Nothing he can do but go back to the supply depot.
-Just an observation, take from this what you will.
really no long range sidearms? lol then why can I kill medium frame at 80-85 meters with the bolt pistol 1-3 shots? |
TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1315
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Darrius Smithmage wrote:Sorry I'm not seeing the issue explain more please if you can? I'm not saying it's an issue, it's just a fact. Long range weapons have a short range backup. Close range weapons don't have a long range backup. Long range weapon users can deal with more situations as needed.
most ppl who are CQC - medium range dont really want to fight at long range anyway.. the chance of being flanked while transfixing on a target at long range is not worth the risk for me.
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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Joseph Ridgeson
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
2394
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't think it means too much because of the DPS differences in short and long range weaponry and when you add in kick, dispersion, and especially charge time for the RR. You can only look at it, as the Kitty has, at a base level and say "that is interesting" rather than draw forth conclusions.
"This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
5855
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Posted - 2014.11.06 20:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wasn't the Commando practically designed for this?
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
RISE of LEGION
470
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
All i'm reading is some RR QQ again... it's getting quite boring actually |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13054
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:All i'm reading is some RR QQ again... it's getting quite boring actually
Cat Merc wrote: -Just an observation, take from this what you will.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13054
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:No, Cat, I'm completely ignorant of the maps. Sure the RR has an inherrent advantage -- and so does the sniper rifle and LR -- but the RRs also have a huge disadvantage that was just made quite a bit worse with the hotfix that was put back in this morning. Moving past that, if the RR is so good, why was usuckatdust vaghenitian (sp?) or Michael Jordan23 the only people I've seen using it with any effect in PC in months? [hint: because they die against heavies with HMG and scouts with any number of weapons] Please, keep using your RR. It melts noobs like butter. However, you only make for a loud and easy target that has little chance once I get you in my range (much less CQC), and you'll likely never see me coming much less have time to pull the sidarm and apply, what, half the DPS?. Games are won and lost in CQC. KDR is padded with ranged weapons. I know which one I'm choosing. Meow.
Leadfoot, I'm just stating an observation, I haven't complained about the Rail Rifle.
In fact, I didn't feel like they are problematic in ages now.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2044
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Posted - 2014.11.06 21:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
Oh, ok then. I agree, they do have an inherent advantage -- to which CCP has also included an inherent disadvantage....and rightfully so.
I guess all the "nerf RR" threads have gotten to me. 
Carry on! |
LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
774
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Darrius Smithmage wrote:Sorry I'm not seeing the issue explain more please if you can? I'm not saying it's an issue, it's just a fact. Long range weapons have a short range backup. Close range weapons don't have a long range backup. Long range weapon users can deal with more situations as needed.
Except for the fact that short range users will be better in short range, so the backup is made not so good.
Quafe
A question doesn't always have an answer, but a problem does,
So what is DUST? A problem or a question?
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13058
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
LUGMOS wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Darrius Smithmage wrote:Sorry I'm not seeing the issue explain more please if you can? I'm not saying it's an issue, it's just a fact. Long range weapons have a short range backup. Close range weapons don't have a long range backup. Long range weapon users can deal with more situations as needed. Except for the fact that short range users will be better in short range, so the backup is made not so good.
Short range users are even worse at long range in comparison.
Doing 10% damage < Having a sidearm that deals full damage
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1082
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Use TAC AR and stop QQing damnit, gallente is OP and you know it ;) Gallente is OP unless you look at statistics and math :) None of which you have presented.
But I agree with you in that all side arms are for engaging at shorter ranges.
How to balance cloaks.
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Operative 1125 Lokaas
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
622
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:...Due to sidearms.
There are no sidearms with a range longer than 60m, meaning that there is no sidearm to cover for the Plasma Rifle's weakness, while pretty much all the sidearms are built to operate within short-medium ranges.
This means that operators of weapons like the Rail Rifle can operate at any range if they need to.
If a Plasma Rifle operator needs to engage at ranges longer than his Plasma Rifle... Nothing he can do but go back to the supply depot.
-Just an observation, take from this what you will.
The problem is that there really isn't a medium range in this game. Usually it is either long range or beeline right up on you in CQ.
Add to that the arena rumble nature to this game and we have failure of most things that would otherwise be useful in a traditional combat setting or in a special ops, small scale insertion.
This is runny, runny, shooty, shooty and so the stuff like RR vs. AR is all messed up.
Boycott Black Thursday!
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1636
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Use TAC AR and stop QQing damnit, gallente is OP and you know it ;)
tac ar is still too short range too small dmg per clip and damage per second vs RR.. even BAR is better then TAR if you can live whit out the scope
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13059
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Use TAC AR and stop QQing damnit, gallente is OP and you know it ;) Gallente is OP unless you look at statistics and math :) None of which you have presented. But I agree with you in that all side arms are for engaging at shorter ranges.
Well, I don't feel like doing the math for you all over again, since I did it countless times before and posted in many threads, but you can just look at Rattati's stats.
Gallente Assaults are the most underperforming Assault suits.
Plasma Rifles are below average, with the only exception being the BAR... That is getting nerfed.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1636
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Posted - 2014.11.06 23:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Operative 1125 Lokaas wrote:Cat Merc wrote:...Due to sidearms.
There are no sidearms with a range longer than 60m, meaning that there is no sidearm to cover for the Plasma Rifle's weakness, while pretty much all the sidearms are built to operate within short-medium ranges.
This means that operators of weapons like the Rail Rifle can operate at any range if they need to.
If a Plasma Rifle operator needs to engage at ranges longer than his Plasma Rifle... Nothing he can do but go back to the supply depot.
-Just an observation, take from this what you will. The problem is that there really isn't a medium range in this game. Usually it is either long range or beeline right up on you in CQ. Add to that the arena rumble nature to this game and we have failure of most things that would otherwise be useful in a traditional combat setting or in a special ops, small scale insertion. This is runny, runny, shooty, shooty and so the stuff like RR vs. AR is all messed up.
SCR is a med range weapon, ASCR is a cqb one. like RR is supposed to be a long range weapon and ARR a medium range one and AR is short to med ( Ar and burst = close, BAR/TAR = med ).. CR is med and ACR is close.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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G Felix
107
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Posted - 2014.11.07 01:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Isn't the consistently underperforming magsec SMG supposed to fill the niche if a longer range sidearm? I would think it would make a natural pairing for short range weapons like the plasma AR and HMG, and have tried to use it as such, it's just that the Breach SMG and Scrambler Pistol consistently do a better job. Maybe a magsec buff would sort this out?
Dust can be frustrating. (Gò»°Gûí°)Gò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+)
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1227
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Posted - 2014.11.07 01:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
That's why Rail Rifle users are scrubs
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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jace silencerww
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2014.11.10 12:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Races with Tanks are undeniably superior IN GAME to those that don't.....except the Gallente and Caldari.
Cuz Amarr are just better.
LOL we might one day get the Amarr & Minnie vehicles..... maybe if we ask for them a lot CCP Rattati will give them to us.... maybe I hope. |
Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7138
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Posted - 2014.11.10 12:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sounds like we need some personal drones that can help defend against long range fire by tracking the incoming rounds, but processing speeds limit it in a way that it can't track close range weaponry fast enough.
Oh, ****, Dust 514 isn't getting anymore development.
Oh well, guess Gallente are boned. Par for the course, really.
Long-Term Roadmap
Question -EVERYTHING-
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3331
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Posted - 2014.11.10 12:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
It's just fact that short range weapons will never be as good as long range weapons.
1) CCP will never buff the range of the Gallente weapons even though that's like the only thing they need to be fixed. Or give gals bonuses to RR usage.
2) CCP values DPS over range so they think that their dps:range ratio is fair. It isn't...
Oh wait there is a third one, there will never be a side arm or an item to compensate for our short range. The closest thing would be a cloak but that's limited to scouts and kinetic catalyzers but for those to be completely useful you need high stamina and regen.
Sigh... I guess life is always more interesting at the short end of the stick?
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2390
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Sounds like we need some personal drones that can help defend against long range fire by tracking the incoming rounds, but processing speeds limit it in a way that it can't track close range weaponry fast enough.
Oh, ****, Dust 514 isn't getting anymore development.
Oh well, guess Gallente are boned. Par for the course, really.
Gallente are boned - par for the course?
The Tac AR of old, the Gallente Scout, the Madrugar, the Shotgun, the BAR.
Would you like to know more?
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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BL4CKST4R
La Muerte Eterna
Dark Taboo
3331
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Posted - 2014.11.10 14:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Sounds like we need some personal drones that can help defend against long range fire by tracking the incoming rounds, but processing speeds limit it in a way that it can't track close range weaponry fast enough.
Oh, ****, Dust 514 isn't getting anymore development.
Oh well, guess Gallente are boned. Par for the course, really. Gallente are boned - par for the course? The Tac AR of old, the Gallente Scout, the Madrugar, the Shotgun, the BAR. Would you like to know more?
You know what's funny everything Gallente that managed to reach OP status was nerfed within weeks. Barring the fact that every new Gallente item since beta has been released pre nerfed and continue to suck. Everything else that was OP took months, in some occasions years to fix. For example the Caldari logistic took about 4 months to fix, the combat and rail rifles took about 6 months to a year.
Also did you know the only lol fits remaining are composed of Gallente items?
supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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