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Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent stuff, not today

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Sev Alcatraz 649	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:00:00 - [1] - Quote Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent tanks/suits with out the fear of going completely broke, I could compete with the PC ass holes, not today, today if I loose a tank I'm in the hole, loose 2 or 3 decent suits and I'm in the hole. I've played for 2 and a half years, and yesterday when we were getting awsome payouts I enjoyed the game, I was gaining something... Bring back big payouts
Sinboto Simmons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 6463	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:03:00 - [2] - Quote If you've been playing so long why are you broke? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2016	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:05:00 - [3] - Quote I'm sorry to say this, but if you've been playing for 2.5 years then the only person you have to blame for not having enough ISK is yourself. Run cheaper suits, that way when you need to pull out the expensive stuff, you can afford it. That said, I do tend to agree that the entire risk/reward system should more heavily favor players who try to kill others and take flags over redline snpers who go 1:0. As it is now, how much ISK you make has more to do with how much you don't lose than how much you actually accomplish...and we are rewarding too highly people who specialize in low-risk situations (like redline sniping, redling tanking, roof camping, heavies in LAVs, etc.) rather than the people who are putting their ISK on the line to take flags and kill the opposition in a way that leads towards engaging and exciting gameplay. So I say do NOT bring back the large payouts, but rather correct the underlying risk/reward system to more heavily reward players to make for exciting, action packed matches.
Sev Alcatraz 649	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:08:00 - [4] - Quote If field a 300k. Tank wipe all enemy vehicles off the field and then get blow up at the end of the match from a red line forge gun that is impossible to hit, I get 150k barely enough to pay for the turret
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7388	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:08:00 - [5] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent tanks/suits with out the fear of going completely broke, I could compete with the PC ass holes, not today, today if I loose a tank I'm in the hole, loose 2 or 3 decent suits and I'm in the hole. I've played for 2 and a half years, and yesterday when we were getting awsome payouts I enjoyed the game, I was gaining something... Bring back big payouts How have you played for 2.5 years and not saved up a decent amount of money? (Or at least learned how to budget your suits?) Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Sev Alcatraz 651	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:09:00 - [6] - Quote Also, I'm broke because when dust launched and there was the PC landgrab I threw almost all my money at my corp ( tritan industries at the time) and never bounced back
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7388	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:11:00 - [7] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: If field a 300k. Tank wipe all enemy vehicles off the field and then get blow up at the end of the match from a red line forge gun that is impossible to hit, I get 150k barely enough to pay for the turret Risk v Reward Never play a suit you can't afford to lose. I can run proto almost 24/7 because I play lots of PC. I play a high risk game made that gives you ZERO ISK if you lose. I take the risk, and get huge rewards. I use those rewards to fund more PC's, and then I use the leftovers to run proto's in pubs. My wallet typically fluctuates between 100 and 120 Million ISK. It's been like this for forever (Ever since I stopped specifically trying to save ISK). This means that my Income is roughly equal to my outcome. Budgeting. Learn what you can afford to run and die in on a regular basis. If you tend to die a lot, you can't ever really afford to run good gear. You will go so ISK negative, you will never be able to pull a profit. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Sinboto Simmons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 6464	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:13:00 - [8] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Also, I'm broke because when dust launched and there was the PC landgrab I threw almost all my money at my corp ( tritan industries at the time) and never bounced back tilts head Still shaky there, had to have spent several hundred mill on PC, and that's just money for the mode itself don't get me started on the wars, and I'm still banked. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Sev Alcatraz 651	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:14:00 - [9] - Quote Your also from a corp who locked districts and got ridiculous payouts, you were able to beat back everyone who wasn't locking districts
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2017	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:19:00 - [10] - Quote So you know, and I speak only for myself, but I have never received even a single ISK payout from my corp, other than to cover PC losses, which is our policy. And you only get PC payouts if you win, and they average much less than the typical payout I got last night. But, please, carry on.

LT Dans Legs Evzones Public.Disorder. 496	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:20:00 - [11] - Quote Yup, game was actually fun with higher payout. To Live Is To Die
Sinboto Simmons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 6464	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:23:00 - [12] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Your also from a corp who locked districts and got ridiculous payouts, you were able to beat back everyone who wasn't locking districts Haha, suddenly hostile huh? I'm not going to say we didn't, everyone did towards the end, but I personally wasn't gaining from it-in fact fought in many battles where I made no income- so that argument is both presumed and invalid. Also needlessly aggressive. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4425	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:24:00 - [13] - Quote You could always play Fw (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Sev Alcatraz 651	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:26:00 - [14] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Your also from a corp who locked districts and got ridiculous payouts, you were able to beat back everyone who wasn't locking districts Haha, suddenly hostile huh? I'm not going to say we didn't, everyone did towards the end, but I personally wasn't gaining from it-in fact fought in many battles where I made no income- so that argument is both presumed and invalid. Also needlessly aggressive. I was stateing a valid point, not being hostile or agresive, you are just as guilty for locking, it's fact
Sinboto Simmons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 6464	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:28:00 - [15] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Your also from a corp who locked districts and got ridiculous payouts, you were able to beat back everyone who wasn't locking districts Haha, suddenly hostile huh? I'm not going to say we didn't, everyone did towards the end, but I personally wasn't gaining from it-in fact fought in many battles where I made no income- so that argument is both presumed and invalid. Also needlessly aggressive. I was stateing a valid point, not being hostile or agresive, you are just as guilty for locking, it's fact mmmm ok then. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1608	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:30:00 - [16] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: If you've been playing so long why are you broke? if you asked me that question id say "Because Logi main" [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 346	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:38:00 - [17] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: If you've been playing so long why are you broke? yeah man, i just don't understand ^and i am proto in all 4 logis
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club 5832	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:39:00 - [18] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: If you've been playing so long why are you broke? if you asked me that question id say "Because Logi main" Logi's get a sh*t ton of ISK last week i was using my Adv Min logi and got a 700k payout. NEG1 EVE 21 Day Trial Selling Templar BPO's
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4555	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:40:00 - [19] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent tanks/suits with out the fear of going completely broke, I could compete with the PC ass holes, not today, today if I loose a tank I'm in the hole, loose 2 or 3 decent suits and I'm in the hole. I've played for 2 and a half years, and yesterday when we were getting awesome payouts I enjoyed the game, I was gaining something... You enjoyed Dust because you were able to play risk-free. Who cares if you lose 50 proto dropsuits if one match can pay for them all... as for your excuse "I threw my money into PC, that's why I'm broke!" That isn't CCP's problem. You voluntarily spent the ISK. You are broke because you made yourself broke. Get into starter or standard fittings like the rest of us. My advice to you, playa...
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 765	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:47:00 - [20] - Quote Yesterday was awesome and dust should be that way anyway, i mean what cheap ass warlord sends people somewhere to die over and over to keep or take land for them and only pay you 250000 and you gotta pay for your own crap that you lose?? Thats just stupid, after yesterday i finally realized how ripped off we've all been and everyone's all giving this guy a hard time, the mans right, you should be clearing a mill a match, this game wasnt ment to be played in frontline suits, increase payouts so everyone fights harder! DONT EVER COMPLAIN, USE CAPS LOCK OR POINT OUT WHAT BROKEN WITH OUR GAME OR WE WILL DEFINITELY BAN YOUR ASS FOR 6 MONTHS

Songs of Seraphim Murphys-Law 36	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:50:00 - [21] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent tanks/suits with out the fear of going completely broke, I could compete with the PC ass holes, not today, today if I loose a tank I'm in the hole, loose 2 or 3 decent suits and I'm in the hole. I've played for 2 and a half years, and yesterday when we were getting awsome payouts I enjoyed the game, I was gaining something... Bring back big payouts Grind. That's all there is to it. If you have more fun running proto and tanks, then you have to work for it. I have only been playing actively for the past 7 months, I wasn't in the PC circle-jerk, ran standard and advanced suits solely. Now I have proto suits (logi, assault, & scout) stocked to at least 200 per VERSION. And I have a wallet floating around 100 million or so, depending if I don't go on drunken splurges. So if you're broke and you've been playing for 2.5 years. That's on you. Play smart. Use BPOs or militia gear. Hell, I used pure militia for a week and did incredibly well. You just have to put in the effort.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14224	Posted - 2014.11.05 21:54:00 - [22] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent tanks/suits with out the fear of going completely broke, I could compete with the PC ass holes, not today, today if I loose a tank I'm in the hole, loose 2 or 3 decent suits and I'm in the hole. I've played for 2 and a half years, and yesterday when we were getting awsome payouts I enjoyed the game, I was gaining something... Bring back big payouts Don't field what you can't afford. GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥ GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥ Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 374	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:00:00 - [23] - Quote I feel for the logis. They could run the best of the best gear knowing if they did their job and supported the troops despite the risk....they would be greatly compensated for their troubles. Yesterday a member in my corp got 7 million for his troubles from a single match. He brought the best gear and kept our squad with ammo, reps for the heavies, and wouldn't think twice about stabbing a teammate with his kaalakiota injector. He was doing his job, having fun doing it.....and was paid well....now logis are back to dirty needles, broken repair tools, and gives up on saving lives because of self-preservation. Back to the logi dark ages.......with only their memories left to dream of the golden age of logis. 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14224	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:03:00 - [24] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Also, I'm broke because when dust launched and there was the PC landgrab I threw almost all my money at my corp ( tritan industries at the time) and never bounced back As did I. 100,000,000 ISK to Dead Six Initiative which was lost funding alliance matches. GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥ GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥ Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
LT Dans Legs Evzones Public.Disorder. 497	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:07:00 - [25] - Quote Yay, now we get less than we used to. I guess everyone doesn't like making money. Now all the pc elites can rest easy knowing they wont have any challenging matches on their hands. It's ok y'all, you can still proto stomp the normal players that have to run cheap ass suits. Salute To Live Is To Die
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 4103	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:08:00 - [26] - Quote Look, what my buddy is trying to say here is that the low payouts are just awful for everyone. Most vets(besides Sev) have saved up enough isk to now worry about running Proto but a lot of newberries have a tough go at it. Let them make some more isk, is it really hurting the economy? There is trillions of isk floating around because of PC anyway, let them eat cake! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sinboto Simmons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 6470	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:09:00 - [27] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Look, what my buddy is trying to say here is that the low payouts are just awful for everyone. Most vets(besides Sev) have saved up enough isk to now worry about running Proto but a lot of newberries have a tough go at it. Let them make some more isk, is it really hurting the economy? There is trillions of isk floating around because of PC anyway, let them eat cake! The cake is a lie! But yes new guys need cash. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Jathniel G I A N T 1230	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:39:00 - [28] - Quote I refuse to believe that a fundamental part of Dust, "Risk", is what was killing the game. We need to modify the isk payout to encourage players to play. Did a match today, and earned only 275k, although I suffered no losses, and did pretty well. The other team, ended up redline sniping, and afking in the MCC. I refuse to believe that some of our veterans are so fked up, that they think GOING BACK to imposing that poverty is good for the game. We need isk payouts to be around 500k-1.5m to get the game as fun and playable as it was yesterday, and still have the "Risk" element. I like the Proto-Centric gameplay. Noobs starting out with STD and ADV gear, shouldn't need to be so worried about their pocketbooks, all it does is perpetuate the redline sniping and afking. They get their passives, and get their proto, and should be jumping into the fight, like I saw yesterday. What was happening on November 4, is a fk-ton better than what we have regressed to. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Sev Alcatraz 656	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:44:00 - [29] - Quote Like LTdanslegs said, the PC locking scrub muffens don't want competition, it's ok for them to be rich, but if everyone else has cash it's blasphemy. Yesterday people were going full bore like never before, today there red line sniping and hiding
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14871	Posted - 2014.11.05 22:48:00 - [30] - Quote People just throw isk at me haha, its a disease Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+ Bitter Vet extraordinaire

waistr DEAD-MEN-WALKING 247	Posted - 2014.11.05 23:24:00 - [31] - Quote LT Dans Legs wrote: Yup, game was actually fun with higher payout. Also known as "easy mode"
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2027	Posted - 2014.11.05 23:28:00 - [32] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Like LTdanslegs said, the PC locking scrub muffens don't want competition, it's ok for them to be rich, but if everyone else has cash it's blasphemy. Yesterday people were going full bore like never before, today there red line sniping and hiding I relish the competition. I did not earn one single isk from district locking. You will never find me redline sniping or hiding. Keep making excuses, or realize there's a solution to your problem and do it: Run cheap suits so when you need the proto fits you can afford them. The only thing that will suffer is your lolKDR. You'll get better by running lower end suits, and your wallet will thank you. It's really not that difficult, but people want the easy way out, I suppose.
Sev Alcatraz 656	Posted - 2014.11.05 23:38:00 - [33] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Like LTdanslegs said, the PC locking scrub muffens don't want competition, it's ok for them to be rich, but if everyone else has cash it's blasphemy. Yesterday people were going full bore like never before, today there red line sniping and hiding I relish the competition. I did not earn one single isk from district locking. You will never find me redline sniping or hiding. Keep making excuses, or realize there's a solution to your problem and do it: Run cheap suits so when you need the proto fits you can afford them. The only thing that will suffer is your lolKDR. You'll get better by running lower end suits, and your wallet will thank you. It's really not that difficult, but people prefer to point fingers rather than look in the mirror, I suppose. Look, if you want more competitive battles with no hiding and redline sniping, rage against that by, perhaps, suggesting the payouts be fixed to reward aggressive play over riskless behaviors like hiding, AFKing, roof camping, or redline sniping/tanking, rather than misplaced rage against something that's over and done with (e.g. isk farming PC). I can damn near guarantee you have PC isk
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17625	Posted - 2014.11.05 23:53:00 - [34] - Quote I learned to try to break even every fight; its the skill the proto stompers already have. Budgeting V Fiscal Planning V CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14883	Posted - 2014.11.06 00:01:00 - [35] - Quote Most proto stompers really dont have that skill haha, there was just such a MASSIVE pool of ISK that got distributed among many of them that ISK management became entirely irrelevant. Ten Year Plan (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+ Bitter Vet extraordinaire
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2330	Posted - 2014.11.06 00:07:00 - [36] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Most proto stompers really dont have that skill haha, there was just such a MASSIVE pool of ISK that got distributed among many of them that ISK management became entirely irrelevant. Yea I have to agree. I'm sorry IWS but most proto 'stompers' do not do as you say. They just have isk banks so big that it does not matter as I am sure many people will freely admit. I wanted the economy and isk to be a real concern but it hasnt been for a long time with all the payouts and farming of days gone by. To be honest the OP and others have a point, it felt very good to get those huge payouts. Now I am not saying we should be getting such high payouts but damn man, we need more than these stupid welfare checks we are getting again. The game was fun yesterday after getting past the initial shock of the high pay outs and lots of protos.... you know why? Because for the first time in, well possibly forever, pretty much everyone playing in the game could use their best stuff without fear of going broke or having to painfully grind back the lost isk. Whether or not you guys want to admit it, yesterday was lot of fun. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
LT Dans Legs Evzones Public.Disorder. 500	Posted - 2014.11.06 00:09:00 - [37] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Most proto stompers really dont have that skill haha, there was just such a MASSIVE pool of ISK that got distributed among many of them that ISK management became entirely irrelevant. That's just it. To Live Is To Die
LT Dans Legs Evzones Public.Disorder. 500	Posted - 2014.11.06 00:10:00 - [38] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Most proto stompers really dont have that skill haha, there was just such a MASSIVE pool of ISK that got distributed among many of them that ISK management became entirely irrelevant. Yea I have to agree. I'm sorry IWS but most proto 'stompers' do not do as you say. They just have isk banks so big that it does not matter as I am sure many people will freely admit. I wanted the economy and isk to be a real concern but it hasnt been for a long time with all the payouts and farming of days gone by. To be honest the OP and others have a point, it felt very good to get those huge payouts. Now I am not saying we should be getting such high payouts but damn man, we need more than these stupid welfare checks we are getting again. The game was fun yesterday after getting past the initial shock of the high pay outs and lots of protos.... you know why? Because for the first time in, well possibly forever, pretty much everyone playing in the game could use their best stuff without fear of going broke or having to painfully grind back the lost isk. Whether or not you guys want to admit it, yesterday was lot of fun. Yes sir. Agree To Live Is To Die
Ace Boone 333	Posted - 2014.11.06 00:35:00 - [39] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Also, I'm broke because when dust launched and there was the PC landgrab I threw almost all my money at my corp ( tritan industries at the time) and never bounced back Dude, I just looked at dustboard. You left Tritan-Industries 479 days ago. That's plenty of time to either earn up enough cash or become a competent PC player. Only loyal to the republic.
Jathniel G I A N T 1231	Posted - 2014.11.06 05:09:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I learned to try to break even every fight; its the skill the proto stompers already have. Budgeting V Fiscal Planning V The point is, it's more fun to enjoy the match, than it is to worry about breaking even. There are players that don't give a damn about ISK or KDR. These are the ones that would mindlessly run about and get killed, because they have to try and win the match at ALL costs. They then quit the game at some point. Then there are players that give a damn about ISK, but don't care about KDR. These will glady use their Starter fits and BPO fits, but still just mindlessly run about and get killed, because 'hey! at least i can bleed ISK out the enemy team. who cares if i die? i wont lose anything.' They too then quick the game because it gets annoying. Finally, you have the players that care a lot about their ISK and their KDR. These will check the roster of a match before even deploying. If the match goes well, they make money. If the match starts going badly, they get pissed off because their investment is instantly being reduced, and they will snipe or afk until the match is over. They sometimes tend to hop corps looking for skilled players to maximize their gains with. (and they quit the game when there's nothing to do, because no one wants to spend money to compete with them.) This leads to proto-stomping, which makes the cycle go all the way around to the top again. But on Nov 4. That ISK system could have led to something new. It could have led to a renewed interest in PC. Small time corps that do nothing but pub matches, would have that extra ISK. A bunch of underdogs would use that extra ISK to start bombarding districts with attacks. "Hey, we got extra money. Let's put it together and start organizing some attacks against these hotshots in PC. Let's shake things up a little!" But instead, a few of us, that already have hundreds of millions and billions of isk... have decided to tell other players that they don't deserve to compete, and that they deserve to play just hard enough to keep grinding enough cash to occassionally field some ADV gear? That's hurting the game. ----------------------------------------- Now let's look at the other side of the spectrum a little bit. There are players that can quite easily proto-stomp if they wanted to, but they don't. They can do fine whether they are with a small squad, a full squad, or running solo. Literally, 99% of the time they just don't care enough to "try hard" or proto-stomp. They've done PC, they're done with PC. They've earned their money, they don't really burn it, but they aren't interested in the over-arching meta. What if they were happy with Dust yesterday? What if players like that, really have no agenda, but are simply old vets that were happy to see the game get so competitive? And they knew that competition was erupting because the tap on ISK had been opened a little. What if those same vets became fired up for Dust like never before, because of that? I'm one of those players. I hate the current match-making system with the MU number thing. It forces certain players to CARRY the match for other players that are ill-equipped. Before yesterday, I was constantly needing to leave a match and redeploy because there were certain matches that (especially when I'm alone) I simply don't want to do, because in Dust, I'm lazy... But Nov 4, got me fired up. So earlier today I decided to "try hard" a little bit. And I did this in a Dom: http://tinypic.com/r/2qsvrzs/8 I lost 4 suits (and was revived 3 times at a bad moment, the last death was from a fall..... which lagged before I deployed the inertial dampener, but who cares...). So my ISK lost, was around 218k. Well over what I tend to budget for a pub match. I was feeling fired up. I was looking forward to my reward at the end of the match. They put me up against, what I figured was a hodgepodge team of competent lone-wolves. This was the enemy roster: http://tinypic.com/r/9la242/8 (For further comparison: http://tinypic.com/r/4rta2x/8 ) Try Hard result wasn't my best, but wasn't too shabby: http://tinypic.com/r/4vo9l3/8 But here is where my heart sank: http://tinypic.com/r/33o1v1j/8 All that try hard, and only 385,504 isk. I destroyed proto suits, and adv suits galore. One guy in particular had on a proto suit, that I destroyed, and I didn't see him again for the rest of the match. That's broken. Not only does the ISK payout NOT make it worthwhile for noobs. It doesn't make it worthwhile for a vet that does even half-decent in a match. And that is not right. That breaks the game. Don't "balance" a match, with an algorithm, that implies that I'm expected to carry a team... and then don't give me a good ISK reward for doing it. That's stupid, and that is why I would drop a match and leave before it even starts sometimes. I ran an Assault C/1-Series and Assault ck.0 with a GLU-5 and Duvy TAR, respectively, that match. My fire for Dust is gone again. Back to not trying hard. Back to afking if the match starts to go bad. Back to proto-stompers believing the illusion that they're hot-shlt, when in actuality it's just that no one thinks they're worth bothering to spend money (or effort with tactics) playing against. You want Dust to be worth playing? Reward every kill, and punish every death. People will always go ALL IN, if they know they will come out positive (at least ISK-wise) at the end of a match. It's a friggin' "should we raise the minimum wage" argument, ffs. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.

Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4362	Posted - 2014.11.06 05:23:00 - [41] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: If you've been playing so long why are you broke? Wondering the same myself.
Sev Alcatraz 657	Posted - 2014.11.06 05:49:00 - [42] - Quote Play aggressively
Banjo Robertson Evzones Public.Disorder. 301	Posted - 2014.11.07 01:58:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I learned to try to break even every fight; its the skill the proto stompers already have. Budgeting V Fiscal Planning V Stop being such a chode and quit the CPM already. I only logged in earlier that day when payments were still 0 isk per match so I completely missed the fun, but from what I heard it WAS fun. So lets get the ISK rolling again!
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1316	Posted - 2014.11.07 02:12:00 - [44] - Quote but if they increase it too much they might as well just remove isk altogether and give everything out for free. everything will have no value if they flood everyones wallet, not saying this is a good payout.. i freakin hate making 80k isk for flying into the fray the whole match, there needs to be a meeting ground.. but too much isk changes the game from team play based into an FPS where you don't need/care to network since you can afford all the best gear and just everyone go solo because death no longer has a sting to it and the game now becomes just spamming top level equipment, it already happens but it will happen more if the payouts are too much where they devalue all gear. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 78	Posted - 2014.11.07 02:35:00 - [45] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: but if they increase it too much they might as well just remove isk altogether and give everything out for free. everything will have no value if they flood everyones wallet, not saying this is a good payout.. i freakin hate making 80k isk for flying into the fray the whole match, there needs to be a meeting ground.. but too much isk changes the game from team play based into an FPS where you don't need/care to network since you can afford all the best gear and just everyone go solo because death no longer has a sting to it and the game now becomes just spamming top level equipment, it already happens but it will happen more if the payouts are too much where they devalue all gear. Somewhere between 1.8 payouts and the crazy payouts would be perfect. The payouts need to be at a level where you aren't going to lose ISK if you die more than once. There's no incentive to get in the thick of it as much if they know they're just going to haemorrhage ISK. On the other hand, if the level of payout is excessive compared to how much is being lost, it means there's less risk. There should be no reward for doing very little or nothing for the team, but there still needs to be a way of rewarding newbies who genuinely try, but earn 0wp. Maybe passive ISK for the amount of time spent out the redline? Not a huge amount, but enough to encourage snipers to leave and prevent mcc spinners to join in or risk no reward.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2047	Posted - 2014.11.07 03:31:00 - [46] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Like LTdanslegs said, the PC locking scrub muffens don't want competition, it's ok for them to be rich, but if everyone else has cash it's blasphemy. Yesterday people were going full bore like never before, today there red line sniping and hiding I relish the competition. I did not earn one single isk from district locking. You will never find me redline sniping or hiding. Keep making excuses, or realize there's a solution to your problem and do it: Run cheap suits so when you need the proto fits you can afford them. The only thing that will suffer is your lolKDR. You'll get better by running lower end suits, and your wallet will thank you. It's really not that difficult, but people prefer to point fingers rather than look in the mirror, I suppose. Look, if you want more competitive battles with no hiding and redline sniping, rage against that by, perhaps, suggesting the payouts be fixed to reward aggressive play over riskless behaviors like hiding, AFKing, roof camping, or redline sniping/tanking, rather than misplaced rage against something that's over and done with (e.g. isk farming PC). I can damn near guarantee you have PC isk Of course I have "PC isk", but just like I said in an earlier post -- I have not received a single ISK from district locking. And I earned every penny of that PC isk....by winning matches. And so you know, I typically make the least amount of money on our team even when we win because I generally die the most (i.e. I play very aggressive, I'm not that good and I tend to run a very low HP scanning scout). lol You could have PC isk too....just join a corp that has a PC team (see starmap) and work your way onto the PC team. If you have the skills and the dedication, there are lots of teams that need help. If you'd like to join us, or just squad up, send me an email in game & let's talk. But in the end the only way you will keep a nice bank account is if you figure out how to budget your deaths against your earnings. For me, it was investing in core skills and just using starter/BPO suits for many months. It built up a 100m+ bank account that I've only dipped below a few times. And when I get a balance low enough to cause me concern, out come the cheap suits for a few days/weeks to build it back up -- my favorite now is a cal scout w/dual sidearms that costs me 30k...it's a good balance of fun and making ISK. Hope this helps...Leadfoot
Banjo Robertson Evzones Public.Disorder. 301	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:17:00 - [47] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Like LTdanslegs said, the PC locking scrub muffens don't want competition, it's ok for them to be rich, but if everyone else has cash it's blasphemy. Yesterday people were going full bore like never before, today there red line sniping and hiding I relish the competition. I did not earn one single isk from district locking. You will never find me redline sniping or hiding. Keep making excuses, or realize there's a solution to your problem and do it: Run cheap suits so when you need the proto fits you can afford them. The only thing that will suffer is your lolKDR. You'll get better by running lower end suits, and your wallet will thank you. It's really not that difficult, but people prefer to point fingers rather than look in the mirror, I suppose. Look, if you want more competitive battles with no hiding and redline sniping, rage against that by, perhaps, suggesting the payouts be fixed to reward aggressive play over riskless behaviors like hiding, AFKing, roof camping, or redline sniping/tanking, rather than misplaced rage against something that's over and done with (e.g. isk farming PC). I can damn near guarantee you have PC isk Of course I have "PC isk", but just like I said in an earlier post -- I have not received a single ISK from district locking. And I earned every penny of that PC isk....by winning matches. And so you know, I typically make the least amount of money on our team even when we win because I generally die the most (i.e. I play very aggressive, I'm not that good and I tend to run a very low HP scanning scout). lol You could have PC isk too....just join a corp that has a PC team (see starmap) and work your way onto the PC team. If you have the skills and the dedication, there are lots of teams that need help. If you'd like to join us, or just squad up, send me an email in game & let's talk. But in the end the only way you will keep a nice bank account is if you figure out how to budget your deaths against your earnings. For me, it was investing in core skills and just using starter/BPO suits for many months. It built up a 100m+ bank account that I've only dipped below a few times. And when I get a balance low enough to cause me concern, out come the cheap suits for a few days/weeks to build it back up -- my favorite now is a cal scout w/dual sidearms that costs me 30k...it's a good balance of fun and making ISK. Hope this helps...Leadfoot Sev is a pretty good tanker, he could be better though, no offence buddy. He'd be pretty good to have in PC I think. I'd like to join in the fun too.
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 626	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:19:00 - [48] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: If you've been playing so long why are you broke? Casual player? Duh! Boycott Black Thursday!
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1597	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:22:00 - [49] - Quote Sev Alcatraz wrote: Yesterday, I enjoyed dust, I could field decent tanks/suits with out the fear of going completely broke, I could compete with the PC ass holes, not today, today if I loose a tank I'm in the hole, loose 2 or 3 decent suits and I'm in the hole. I've played for 2 and a half years, and yesterday when we were getting awsome payouts I enjoyed the game, I was gaining something... Bring back big payouts I have several hundreds of isk and I am 101% casul and I dont play planetary lagfest conquest at all... maybe you nid to gitgud?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2055	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:22:00 - [50] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: Sev is a pretty good tanker, he could be better though, no offence buddy. He'd be pretty good to have in PC I think. I'd like to join in the fun too. The invitation is open to you, too. :) That offered, my impression is that tanking is MUCH harder to go ISK positive. My vehicle alt (Leadfoot One) is a huge ISK sink, so I can understand, a bit, the unique challenges associated with being a tanker. That said, and I only speak for ML, but getting on our PC team is not easy. You need to have a certain level of SP, and you need to be a good, team player. If you have the skills, we'll find a place for you. Even if you don't (or don't yet), the good news is we also have practice PCs quite frequently, where we try and get those players who don't get to play as much some experience. We also have squads running virtually 24x7 and are active in FW as well. So, not to turn this into a recruiting thread, but you're welcome to put in an application at any time. We're always looking for good players and cool cats to play with.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5202	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:33:00 - [51] - Quote I want them to increase, but not to what we had the other day. I think a hard fought Dom should payout to the top on the board around a million ISK. Doms tend to get expensive if there is a fight. In order to not incentivize proto, perhaps a formula for ISK lost (capped at ADV) vs WP contribution. I'm not a math guy, but something to help compensate for 8 ADV suits as long as you had a decent WP/death ratio. I'm in the middle of my first cup of coffee so I hope that makes sense. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
CUSE WarLord KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 49	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:37:00 - [52] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Your also from a corp who locked districts and got ridiculous payouts, you were able to beat back everyone who wasn't locking districts Haha, suddenly hostile huh? I'm not going to say we didn't, everyone did towards the end, but I personally wasn't gaining from it-in fact fought in many battles where I made no income- so that argument is both presumed and invalid. Also needlessly aggressive. give the lad credit he did just burn da crap out of you.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2057	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:39:00 - [53] - Quote Thor, What's wrong with incentivizing proto? It might be an interesting idea to increase payouts not only on what you kill, but also what you risk, personally. Vehicles too. Run proto, get bigger rewards. Run vehicles, get bigger payouts. After all, the risks are much higher too. But really, the major disparity, and I'm sure you agree Thor as we've discussed this more than a few times, is that the risk/payout system is askew and rewards people to do nothing far too much relative to those that actually try. After all, who would pay a merc if he does no fighting? That's precisely what we have today -- and it leads towards the crappy, no-try blueberries that are so frustrating to you and I.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1597	Posted - 2014.11.07 13:44:00 - [54] - Quote CUSE WarLord wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Sev Alcatraz wrote: Your also from a corp who locked districts and got ridiculous payouts, you were able to beat back everyone who wasn't locking districts Haha, suddenly hostile huh? I'm not going to say we didn't, everyone did towards the end, but I personally wasn't gaining from it-in fact fought in many battles where I made no income- so that argument is both presumed and invalid. Also needlessly aggressive. give the lad credit he did just burn da crap out of you. actually he just admitted officially in the forum that he gets broke because he dies to often, that is the opposite of buring the crap out of someone
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4453	Posted - 2014.11.07 15:25:00 - [55] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Thor, What's wrong with incentivizing proto? It might be an interesting idea to increase payouts not only on what you kill, but also what you risk, personally. Vehicles too. Run proto, get bigger rewards. Run vehicles, get bigger payouts. After all, the risks are much higher too. But really, the major disparity, and I'm sure you agree Thor as we've discussed this more than a few times, is that the risk/payout system is askew and rewards people to do nothing far too much relative to those that actually try. After all, who would pay a merc if he does no fighting? That's precisely what we have today -- and it leads towards the crappy, no-try blueberries that are so frustrating to you and I. Honestly, my guess is that the whole payout system is still broken from 1.9 and it's fluctuated from 0 to waaaay too much to not enough and what we are currently getting doesn't represent any actual 'plan' by CCP. To your larger point, sure, the ISK payout system is flawed, it's easier to make money by AFK'ing than actually playing. We've all discussed this for the past 2 years. It should be bumped a little, there should be a significant bonus given to the winning side, as well as to the top 5 people on the board. However, I don't think it's a good idea to increase them to the point that proto becomes almost universally profitable. That would utterly destroy the NPE. Even relatively wealthy but not Kain-Spero/Viktor-Hadah-style superrich players have to at least think about what they run sometimes. Take that away and you'll never see anyone who's played this game for more than 8-10 months in anything but proto ever again. Good luck academy grads, you'll need it! And I will tell you right now that if running tricked out madrugars and ADS' becomes financially sound, I'm quitting. And I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one when tank514 to the third power comes back. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5206	Posted - 2014.11.07 15:27:00 - [56] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Thor, What's wrong with incentivizing proto? It might be an interesting idea to increase payouts not only on what you kill, but also what you risk, personally. Vehicles too. Run proto, get bigger rewards. Run vehicles, get bigger payouts. After all, the risks are much higher too. But really, the major disparity, and I'm sure you agree Thor as we've discussed this more than a few times, is that the risk/payout system is askew and rewards people to do nothing far too much relative to those that actually try. After all, who would pay a merc if he does no fighting? That's precisely what we have today -- and it leads towards the crappy, no-try blueberries that are so frustrating to you and I. Only reason is the perception of proto, I didn't want that to be the focus of the responses. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
LT Dans Legs Evzones Public.Disorder. 505	Posted - 2014.11.07 18:35:00 - [57] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I learned to try to break even every fight; its the skill the proto stompers already have. Budgeting V Fiscal Planning V You don't even play the game. Shush To Live Is To Die


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