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Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 265	Posted - 2014.11.03 02:54:00 - [1] - Quote If CCP decides to bring them back, I hope they do, I've been thinking about some of the possible issues we might have. I've studied all the damages that the LRG Railgun turrets can do from Basic to Proto. Now, I remember my Enforcer fits & Marauder tank fits. The damages the turrets do now I really believe will not be suffice enough to even bother a full proto Enforcer & especially a Marauder tank. A Proto Rail Sagaris/Surya Vs. Proto Rail Sagaris/Surya is not gonna work. They'll never kill one another even if they tried -- assuming the pilots are taking care of their Caldari steel. The LRG Rail simply just doesn't have the DPS even with DMG mods. - I'm pretty sure a well-fitted Falchion/Vayu will have the same deal going on. So, I think CCP may have to rework the LRG Rails a bit & with that comes a lot of balancing with Dropships Vs. Rail. Or they could rework the tanks themselves, But in the end, I don't see that helping the Rail much. Marauder bonuses might be able to help, But those bonuses must be tread on lightly. Just some thought on the possible upcoming matter. Any thoughts? Preferably to ones who piloted a Enforcer or Marauder class & can compare to modern day Rails. --Also, Credit goes to ShadowOfWar88 for brainstorming with me. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 265	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:03:00 - [2] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: Tanks are pretty weak right now but a lot of people forget these are Tier 1 standard tanks. There's actually supposed to be two more tiers of tanks... I hope they bring them back as well. We used to get so excited about seeing a million ISK Vayu we could blow up. I'm rich now so, I could spare a few a day. Yeah, But its not the tanks that are gonna be the problem -- Its the turrets. They've been nerfed to give balance to the only two tiers. I'm guessing CCP done that because they were gonna crap on the game's vehicles. However, The future may still hold a light for vehicles & the pilots who love them. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 265	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:08:00 - [3] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I think you need all of the vet tankers to chime in along with yourself , this might take some time and some thought but experience counts in this matter . I also , would like to see what you vets come up with I never had a chance to get to the PRO tanks , all I got to was the ADV before the rework so I don't count much . This should be interesting . I just hope that you don't get people giving comments that have NO idea what their talking about ( this is Dust forums you know ) and making this case stagnant , I for one would love to see all vehicles ... including racial in the mix but I would settle for what is given . You already know that you will get the whiners and complainers when it comes to infantry but your right in starting this discussion . Thanks for the foresight . I mean I'm all for tanks coming back. We just need to be careful with the Marauder class. LOL Seriously. That thing was a beast. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:10:00 - [4] - Quote I'll be lookin' cool with my black painted Sagaris. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:19:00 - [5] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Well with the way more people are adding gunners , that should help make up for some weakness from the large turrets . If we had more racial turrets , we could actually know how to plan and what we have to deal with . Nah man. If you took a Marauder tank against a Gunnlogi or a Falchion -- You won't have a worry in the world with DMG LRG Turrets do now. Plus the Marauder bonuses would give you an extra edge over anything else except someone equal to you. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:22:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: You make a very valid point. I've been doing a little brain storming myself for a proposal about introducing Racial Marauder and Enforcer Tanks and aiming on each on of these HAV from roughly around the 10000 EHP, all modules activated in rapid succession. Current low tier AV and HAV would honestly have no capacity to deal with them directly though. Admittedly no one is going to blow all four main tanking modules within 1-2 second period of time.....but I have to consider this before I submit it. That sounds reasonable, But I do want AV to have the chance at taking a Marauder down. Back then, That just never happened. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:27:00 - [7] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Sounds like your research does not take returning vehicle modules into account. Well sure yeah. I would love to see all of our old modules back. Remote repair, Variations of armor plates & also a variation of our LRG & SML Turrets. I put this factor up, Though, Because this is going to be a big problem. Modules I'm sure will come with time if they bring old vehicles back into the game. CCP has to tweak the simple things first. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:30:00 - [8] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: We could have turret variants that have more damage , slower ROF, smaller ammo reserves , longer reload times and take up more CPU / PG , I don't know but more variety is good and it might make up for the lack of punch of the current large turrets but also when fitted , comes with a price in performance so as not to have them become OP . Strictly anti-vehicle and if there blasters , with the dispersion of the blasters that caused people to call for a change so there not OP to infantry and you really have to be skilled to kill infantry but not too much of a draw of CPU / PG so that you can't fit small turrets and not have to place a extra PG or CPU mod but if so , oh well then . Variants of our turrets to return would be nice, But CCP needs to decide what is fair base damage Per Tier Level. Cause, Base damage for Rails suck & it won't do the job Vs. another tank that is a higher tier than you. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:45:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Hmmm I do remember back in the day that my poor skilled Soma just literally could not compete with standard combat Madrugar (the 6735 Armour Maddies of yore) and my guns could not scratch one that had one of those 25% hardeners, and Efficient Heavy Armour Repairers, not to mention the AV...... And yet those days where I was the underdog and out classed by higher SP tankers were the days I most enjoyed and also the days where I was at my peak of tanking skill despite being X million SP down on the next HAV pilot. I remember those days as well, My friend. You feel like you were more skilled then because you had a greater challenge to face. You were engaging other tanks in a tank that was sub-par to theirs. Doesn't mean your skill is lower any today -- You've just become like those tankers you faced back then. I just want this to be fair. Keeping in mind High risk & high reward goes in with it. If you bring our a Marauder, A Militia class in no way should blow you up -- Even if you sat there & returned no fire. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:57:00 - [10] - Quote True Adamance wrote: As I mentioned before I was doing so math (gawdawful math) and roughly came out with no HAV beening significantly more powerful than the current 10K EHP Gunnlogi than can me made now. (Amarr hits 12200, Gallente 11670, Caldari 11050, and Minmatar 10800 this with one extra module slot filled....... though of course I'm only assuming racial fits...not what could be abused.) Ain't no one gonna use a 10k EHP Gunnlogi fit. You can make one, But you are not gonna take that into battle unless its for fun. No resistance or boosters to help you in a multiple tank engagement will hurt you. The best tanks now are Sponge or Spike fits. That's it. The current modules don't give you any versatility for anything in between & be comfortable with it anymore. Now, Those 2 fits are what I'm planning on seeing being popular if the old tanks arise. A Spiked Gunnlogi will have zero chance against a Marauder or Enforcer. The LRG Turrets just won't do enough. Either the Enforcer/Marauder tank will Out-Sponge you or Out-Spike you in every way. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team

Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:15:00 - [11] - Quote Lupus Wolf wrote: What if there were certain spots on the vehicle where shots did more damage? What if a perfect shot disabled the tracks, and they had to wait until it was repaired? What if infantry could blow the hatch open with remotes and kill the driver? There could be ways to getting around the significant EHP that require some skill. There is already a weak spot. Its the back end of a tank. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:38:00 - [12] - Quote Tanks & The LRG Turrets are the main topics here. Popping a tank's treads would be cool, But then what? If you're the tanker, 95% of the time in pubs you'd just sit there waiting for help that never comes. Rails vs. Dropships could be considered in here as long as you induce that the rails would be buffed -- Because we can't have Dropships being sniped out 24/7 by rails. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:21:00 - [13] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Bring back the old modules, but rework them. Tanks and other vehicles had more variety back then and now its kinda crap. I remember having experimental tank fittings that were so crazy and so fun to test out... I'm hoping to see the vehicle fun return ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:34:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: Louis Domi wrote: Bring back the old modules, but rework them. Tanks and other vehicles had more variety back then and now its kinda crap. I remember having experimental tank fittings that were so crazy and so fun to test out... I'm hoping to see the vehicle fun return Still you have to ask what does need to return. Shield modules currently have never been more balanced if I remember correctly (no one liked Shield HAV back pre 1.7) armour modules could see come interesting returns like active reps, passive plating, etc. HEAT SINKS ARE A MUST! Yeah our old modules will have to return eventually. Also, I've always used shield vehicles with exception of an Incubus -- Which now is a wasted SP investment. Active reps were better. They repaired more & kept you on your toes during an engagement. I think CCP introduced passive armor reps for vehicles because some people can't flip on multiple modules. I want to see more resistance plating or shields of different types. Say like you wanted to make a Vayu brawler type fit. Ion Cannon, Plate, Repair & a Armor hardener that gave more resistance to a specific damage type. Like other blasters or missiles. Maybe put a DMG control & injector & DMG mod for high slots. That would be an all around sound Vayu fit & makes it more unique for its own combat situation -- Which would be close range. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:42:00 - [15] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Mike Ox Bigger wrote: Tanks are pretty weak right now but a lot of people forget these are Tier 1 standard tanks. There's actually supposed to be two more tiers of tanks... I hope they bring them back as well. We used to get so excited about seeing a million ISK Vayu we could blow up. Really, it's been nearly a year and those are the only tanks I know about. As far as I'm concerned, those ARE proto tanks. Nope. There were Enforcers & Marauders. Heck I think even Black Ops tanks that were the unofficial Logi Tank. Marauders vanished at Uprising 1.0. Enforcers vanished along with most of our mods & weapons at 1.7. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 269	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:53:00 - [16] - Quote CharacterNameWasTaken wrote: i heard there were also more turrets back then too. Is that true? Yes there was, But 1.9 marks a revival in Dust. We pilots just can't give in. My mistake was always being quiet. Need to see our vehicles back in shape. EDIT: Misread what you said & I didn't make any sense. lol ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 269	Posted - 2014.11.03 21:56:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: ahem Hi, I was an AVID sagaris farmer with forge guns. That being said I agree with the OP's assessment. The re-introduction of Enforcer and Marauders without a SEVERE rethink on how they operate would result in nothing but tanks being UTTERLY unstoppable. AV wouldn't be able to make a dent. Large turrets no longer have the power to break them. Plus enforcers never lived up to the high-Damage, low-HP setup that they were supposed to. Most enforcers were as hard, or harder to kill than a surya or sagaris. they wound up being marauder 2.0 only more effective. Its great to have your opinion. I need more like them from vets. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 269	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:06:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: CharacterNameWasTaken wrote: i heard there were also more turrets back then too. Is that true? Don't know, But 1.9 marks a revival in Dust. We pilots just can't give in. My mistake was always being quiet. Driver mistakes wasn't being silent. It was being silent while the most idiotic amongst you refused to SHUT THE HELL UP. It's kinda resulted in negative backlash against vehicles in all cases and from all non-vehicle players. If more reasonable and logical pilots and drivers would speak up, we might be able to roll back some of the more onerous and lame nerfs to vehicles. Which might in turn provide me more fun per hour murdering you and your toys. Good luck is all I can say. But firstly, This thread isn't a pissing contest amongst us players. CCP needs to realize if they reintroduce those tanks, They will need to reconfigure just about everything that is available now. Yes, I agree that is one of the major mistakes as a pilot that I made. However, I never got on the forums much & I never cared to. Actually it wasn't until a few months ago that I realized how many players cry over things. I do appreciate your input, Though. If you had anymore of it, This thread could use it. Or other pilots you may know. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 269	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:08:00 - [19] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Very much so what I want. I'd also have loved to see vehicles with their own racial damage resistance profiles. It would be nice. Specialists again we would be. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 271	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:11:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: True Adamance wrote: Very much so what I want. I'd also have loved to see vehicles with their own racial damage resistance profiles. It would be nice. Specialists again we would be. Well that used to be half the fun of tanking. Finding your target, breaking down what modules you think they have, how best to engage them, then trying to put that into effect. Sounds kind of like EvE, Yes? ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team

Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 271	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:19:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: Actually it wasn't until a few months ago that I realized how many players cry over things. Read the Destiny forum some time. Those people take "whiny btch" to an entirely new and exciting level. But as far as things go I think AV and V should be reverted to Chromosome. Yes this means I think LAVS that are FREE and UNTANKED should be suicide sleds. But the only place where marauders were well-balanced was chrome. They were hard, but they could be killed, especially if you were like me, and neurotic enough to figure out how to torch them. However... Due to the fact that militia tanks would basically be dogchow in the face of proto AV were vehicles and the toys that kill them to revert to chrome, I think Sica and Soma BPOs, as well as militia module BPOs for vehicles should be a thing, along with militia dropships and militia jeeps. Vehicles and Av need a sharp shakeup, and there's enough players with AV and the SP changes will make it possible to skill AV RAPIDLY. Some survivability/killing improvements may be in order. I have read the Destiny forums & yes I know. I'm just not one of those people. I enjoy the games I play as much as I can. BPO MLT Vehicles would be good. You're right about the AV specs. Seems like everyone will have them. ADS* & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 272	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:31:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You're just never gonna get me to agree that vehicles shouldn't be soloable by AV. One player must ALWAYS be counterable by one player. Doesn't have to be EASY though. Just has to be doable with a reasonable application of skill, tactics and positioning. One thing I know is, A good pilot will know when to move & when to stay. I don't think swarms should solo a Tank just because swarms are EZ. Forges on the other hand, Completely different. Takes a lot of skill & patience to be devastating with a forge gun. If the tanker you are lighting up is a moron, Then yes -- It should be solo-able. Which makes the account, Every tank is already solo-able. Just depends if the pilot is a moron or not. I still believe the old tanks should remain around this. I don't hate AV. Its not the player's fault for specing into something that they will need. In fact, I admire most AV-ers that stand against the war machines. There is only one thing about AV that I do hate & its becoming an epidemic in every single match I play -- Jihad Jeeps. Nothing is more stupid when you defeat another tanker & then he just puts remotes on a cheap militia LAV and 1KO's you. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 272	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:39:00 - [23] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I love Jihad Jeeps. Of course I only pop them out when I know the tankers on the other team will make rageposts about them. Enemy team rosters are AWESOME!!! But the problem is that currently ALL vehicles are balanced vs. proto AV STD/MLT AV won't kill MLT tanks. ADV won't kill ADS or even STD dropships (after the HP buff). It's all assumed to be under constant PRO fire, and has been since what, 1.4? Earlier? AV/V balance got shoved in a toilet the instant they decided to balance vehicles at ALL tiers against ONE tier of AV. I can agree. We will just have to keep giving CCP feedback. I got the feeling like they'll just dump the tanks back in & expect everything to be cool. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 272	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:00:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Quasar Storm wrote: I can agree. We will just have to keep giving CCP feedback. I got the feeling like they'll just dump the tanks back in & expect everything to be cool. I think Rattati's actually smarter than that. That's what I hope. So far, I see a lot of good. But that is what I'm used to CCP doing. Just dumping stuff in the game or taking them out. Also, Whilst the JJ's are brought up. A Jihad Jeep 1KOing a tanker is like a player in a militia suit strapped with REs 1KOing your Proto Forge suit. (By the way it sounds Amarr & I know its not cheap). Just to give you an idea. There is already enough things to keep in mind while piloting a tank & it is ranged from biggest threat to minimal threat. -- Forgers like you -- Super installations that are manned -- Other tanks -- Multiple swarm strikes -- ADS w/ gunners -- Proxys on the roads -- Minjas with knives All that stuff I said, You can deal with. All can kill you, But at least you have a chance to take cover or move out of the AO. Jihads allow almost zero reaction time & can freeze your ps3. -Rare glitch but it can happen. There is no chance for your tank to survive if you are zoomed in on targets. Plus the range that LAVS even show up on radar is already when they are too close for evasion. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
Quasar Storm 0uter.Heaven 272	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:04:00 - [25] - Quote True Adamance wrote: That's honestly the worst. I also would suggest that I admire a Good AVer....... I tend to mock the ones that try to stand in the open and put rounds on me......but I cannot disguise my disdain for the Jihad Jeep. There is perhaps 1 turret that can directly counter it due to its tracking, and one HAV in one specific instance that can survive a blast that has a range of 15m. If marauders come back, they'd better be able to survive Jihads..... there would literally be nothing worse than a guy with all blue print original gear being able to instantly gib your (estimate given my currently deployed HAV cost between 650-824K ISK) 1.5 Million+ ISK and 20+ Million SP vehicles. Yup, Yup. I feel ya. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team

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