DUST Search - [Suggestion] Gal Logi Scanning Bonus Reduction

Jebus McKing wrote:

manboar thunder fist wrote:

The medium suits aren't stealth suits, they never have been and never will be. That's why they have HP not far off heavy suits now.

On top of this, the scanners are very costly and the total skill sink for a gal logi proto fit with proto active scanners is quite high. For months now the active scanners have been lame at best, it's time for them to enter the limelight.

So the only suit capable of avoiding scans is scouts and then you go on complaining that active scanners are useless because they can't scan EVERYTHING.

With 3x damps (which is 37.5% of total high/low slots of an Assault suit!!!) you won't even get close to the total HP of a Heavy if you also want to have anything else but damps and HP.

The skill sink for a Gal Logi + proto active scanners is EXACTLY THE SAME as for any Medium suit + complex damps. Your point?
On top of that:

Gal Logi gives his whole squad and soon HIS WHOLE TEAM a scanning advantage even if the rest of the team has 0 SP into scanning.
Gal Logi only needs to use 1 slot and this slot can't even be used for HP modules anyway, compared to 3x low slots a Medium suit would need to use for damps.
Seeing someone on your radar and through walls is a MUCH BIGGER advantage than giving up 3x low slots in order to not show up. Damps won't even make you invisible, but an even easier target for people who actually put effort into playing this game by paying attention to their surroundings!

And I can't stand this BS talk about how bad active scanners are. THEY ARE NOT. Just because you can't scan Scouts doesn't mean that active scanners are worthless. Active scanners do not need a buff at all.

Stefan Stahl wrote:

Right now every medium suit that isn't running 3-5 complex dampeners is being perma-scanned by scouts at 60-80 meters and squad-shared. I don't think GalLogis are going to be the bigger problem. At least then I know that I've been scanned.

You are completely exaggerating. In order to have a 60m scanrange a Scout needs 2x rangeamps (1x for Cal Scout), to even reach 85m a Scout would need 4x rangeamps (!!!). I think there are only a handful of Scouts with even close to 80m range, if at all.
And using 3x damps would at least avoid scans from any scout that is not properly fit for scanning. Where now 3x damps on a Medium suit are just a waste because any Gal Logi with just a proto scanner will scan you anyway from 60-200m away.

Scans are a weak mechanic, a tool for the lazy and incompetent. Scans make one guy see things, and damps make him blind again. Damps are not an advantage, they make you sacrifice a lot of slots only to merely avoid a disadvantage. Dampening has to become easier.

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Jebus McKing lol Proto 815	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:16:00 - [1] - Quote With 1.9 and thus shared team vision for active scanners upon us, which will make it much easier and more common to get scanned, we have to think about how we can also make it easier for Medium suits to avoid scans if they choose to do so. The EWAR interplay between active scanners and Medium suits is fine as long as no additional bonuses are applied. Medium suits can avoid proto active scanners with 2x complex damps, which is a reasonable balance. The bonus to scanning of the Gal Logi though completely throws this balance over board because now a Medium suit needs 5x complex damps (!!!) to avoid being scanned by a Gal Logi with proto scanner. Now my suggestion to restore balance is by changing the Gal Logi bonus from 5% per level to 3% per level. [PROPOSAL] Scan Table with 15% Gal Logi bonus [CURRENT] Scan Table with current bonus As you can see the Scans VS Scouts interplay is hardly changed. They still need the same amount of dampeners to avoid scans, which means they DO NOT get more slots for HP. The Scans VS Mediums interplay does not change too dramatically either except for the fact that instead of 5x damps, 3x damps are now enough to hide from a proto active scanner with Gal Logi bonus. Please, CCP, consider and implement a Medium suit EWAR buff as soon as possible. Being permascanned and fighting enemies with wallhacks is not fun at all if you have no choice to counter it. DUST514 is love // @JebusMcKing
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 194	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:18:00 - [2] - Quote The medium suits aren't stealth suits, they never have been and never will be. That's why they have HP not far off heavy suits now. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 194	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:20:00 - [3] - Quote On top of this, the scanners are very costly and the total skill sink for a gal logi proto fit with proto active scanners is quite high. For months now the active scanners have been lame at best, it's time for them to enter the limelight. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 820	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:21:00 - [4] - Quote Right now every medium suit that isn't running 3-5 complex dampeners is being perma-scanned by scouts at 60-80 meters and squad-shared. I don't think GalLogis are going to be the bigger problem. At least then I know that I've been scanned.
Jebus McKing lol Proto 815	Posted - 2014.11.02 12:50:00 - [5] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: The medium suits aren't stealth suits, they never have been and never will be. That's why they have HP not far off heavy suits now. On top of this, the scanners are very costly and the total skill sink for a gal logi proto fit with proto active scanners is quite high. For months now the active scanners have been lame at best, it's time for them to enter the limelight. So the only suit capable of avoiding scans is scouts and then you go on complaining that active scanners are useless because they can't scan EVERYTHING. With 3x damps (which is 37.5% of total high/low slots of an Assault suit!!!) you won't even get close to the total HP of a Heavy if you also want to have anything else but damps and HP. The skill sink for a Gal Logi + proto active scanners is EXACTLY THE SAME as for any Medium suit + complex damps. Your point? On top of that: Gal Logi gives his whole squad and soon HIS WHOLE TEAM a scanning advantage even if the rest of the team has 0 SP into scanning. Gal Logi only needs to use 1 slot and this slot can't even be used for HP modules anyway, compared to 3x low slots a Medium suit would need to use for damps. Seeing someone on your radar and through walls is a MUCH BIGGER advantage than giving up 3x low slots in order to not show up. Damps won't even make you invisible, but an even easier target for people who actually put effort into playing this game by paying attention to their surroundings! And I can't stand this BS talk about how bad active scanners are. THEY ARE NOT. Just because you can't scan Scouts doesn't mean that active scanners are worthless. Active scanners do not need a buff at all. Stefan Stahl wrote: Right now every medium suit that isn't running 3-5 complex dampeners is being perma-scanned by scouts at 60-80 meters and squad-shared. I don't think GalLogis are going to be the bigger problem. At least then I know that I've been scanned. You are completely exaggerating. In order to have a 60m scanrange a Scout needs 2x rangeamps (1x for Cal Scout), to even reach 85m a Scout would need 4x rangeamps (!!!). I think there are only a handful of Scouts with even close to 80m range, if at all. And using 3x damps would at least avoid scans from any scout that is not properly fit for scanning. Where now 3x damps on a Medium suit are just a waste because any Gal Logi with just a proto scanner will scan you anyway from 60-200m away. Scans are a weak mechanic, a tool for the lazy and incompetent. Scans make one guy see things, and damps make him blind again. Damps are not an advantage, they make you sacrifice a lot of slots only to merely avoid a disadvantage. Dampening has to become easier. DUST514 is love // @JebusMcKing
hfderrtgvcd 1054	Posted - 2014.11.02 16:34:00 - [6] - Quote posting in a steealth buff scouts thread You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5142	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:22:00 - [7] - Quote I liked the game better when active scans were king over passive scans. This seems to be a change back in that direction. If the galogi becomes OP it'll get tweaked, let's just see how it plays out. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3272	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:29:00 - [8] - Quote The point in needing scanner yeah they will be powerful but your forgetting that even the best scanner only last 10 seconds with very limited range. The quantum scanner last 5 seconds with 15 seconds recharging. Unless I could perma scan or semi-perma scan with a scanner there is no need to nerd or tweak them. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 877	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:36:00 - [9] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: The quantum scanner last 5 seconds with 15 seconds recharging Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:41:00 - [10] - Quote +1 I personally think that there should never have been a precision bonus in the first place, just CDR and angle increases "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

Zepod Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 10	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:58:00 - [11] - Quote So basically, make it to where no Scout in this game will ever have to worry about Active Scanners? If you're going to nerf the GalLogi's bonus because it takes a Medium Frame 5 Dampeners to defeat it, then you'll have to nerf the Amarr Scout's precision bonus due to the fact that it takes a MedFrame 5 Dampeners to evade it as well. Eh, why not?
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1238	Posted - 2014.11.03 09:02:00 - [12] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: With 1.9 and thus shared team vision for active scanners upon us, which will make it much easier and more common to get scanned, we have to think about how we can also make it easier for Medium suits to avoid scans if they choose to do so. The EWAR interplay between active scanners and Medium suits is fine as long as no additional bonuses are applied. Medium suits can avoid proto active scanners with 2x complex damps, which is a reasonable balance. The bonus to scanning of the Gal Logi though completely throws this balance over board because now a Medium suit needs 5x complex damps (!!!) to avoid being scanned by a Gal Logi with proto scanner. Now my suggestion to restore balance is by changing the Gal Logi bonus from 5% per level to 3% per level. [PROPOSAL] Scan Table with 15% Gal Logi bonus [CURRENT] Scan Table with current bonus As you can see the Scans VS Scouts interplay is hardly changed. They still need the same amount of dampeners to avoid scans, which means they DO NOT get more slots for HP. The Scans VS Mediums interplay does not change too dramatically either except for the fact that instead of 5x damps, 3x damps are now enough to hide from a proto active scanner with Gal Logi bonus. Please, CCP, consider and implement a Medium suit EWAR buff as soon as possible. Being permascanned and fighting enemies with wallhacks is not fun at all if you have no choice to counter it. 0/10 So,you're complaining about permascan wallhacks (which only scouts have),and your solution to this scout caused problem is to nerf Gal logis? Yeah... 15-30 second cooldowns are enough. Which they already have. Bad troll OP. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 198	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:00:00 - [13] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: The medium suits aren't stealth suits, they never have been and never will be. That's why they have HP not far off heavy suits now. On top of this, the scanners are very costly and the total skill sink for a gal logi proto fit with proto active scanners is quite high. For months now the active scanners have been lame at best, it's time for them to enter the limelight. So the only suit capable of avoiding scans is scouts and then you go on complaining that active scanners are useless because they can't scan EVERYTHING. With 3x damps (which is 37.5% of total high/low slots of an Assault suit!!!) you won't even get close to the total HP of a Heavy if you also want to have anything else but damps and HP. The skill sink for a Gal Logi + proto active scanners is EXACTLY THE SAME as for any Medium suit + complex damps. Your point? On top of that: Gal Logi gives his whole squad and soon HIS WHOLE TEAM a scanning advantage even if the rest of the team has 0 SP into scanning. Gal Logi only needs to use 1 slot and this slot can't even be used for HP modules anyway, compared to 3x low slots a Medium suit would need to use for damps. Seeing someone on your radar and through walls is a MUCH BIGGER advantage than giving up 3x low slots in order to not show up. Damps won't even make you invisible, but an even easier target for people who actually put effort into playing this game by paying attention to their surroundings! And I can't stand this BS talk about how bad active scanners are. THEY ARE NOT. Just because you can't scan Scouts doesn't mean that active scanners are worthless. Active scanners do not need a buff at all. Stefan Stahl wrote: Right now every medium suit that isn't running 3-5 complex dampeners is being perma-scanned by scouts at 60-80 meters and squad-shared. I don't think GalLogis are going to be the bigger problem. At least then I know that I've been scanned. You are completely exaggerating. In order to have a 60m scanrange a Scout needs 2x rangeamps (1x for Cal Scout), to even reach 85m a Scout would need 4x rangeamps (!!!). I think there are only a handful of Scouts with even close to 80m range, if at all. And using 3x damps would at least avoid scans from any scout that is not properly fit for scanning. Where now 3x damps on a Medium suit are just a waste because any Gal Logi with just a proto scanner will scan you anyway from 60-200m away. Scans are a weak mechanic, a tool for the lazy and incompetent. Scans make one guy see things, and damps make him blind again. Damps are not an advantage, they make you sacrifice a lot of slots only to merely avoid a disadvantage. Dampening has to become easier. Scrub welcome to the land of the minmatar scout, where dampening is laughable at best. we have managed for so long, git good. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4367	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:16:00 - [14] - Quote 3/10 Your reasoning is almost plausible. However, permahide is just as bad as permascan. I'm afraid rendering scouts (specifically gallente and caldari) permanently immune to scans is not an acceptable solution any more than making all scouts automatically show up on radar is. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 198	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:20:00 - [15] - Quote @breaking me? or op? scouts sacrifice those armour/speed modules for dampening.... a minmatar scout with dampeners has 80 armour.... and can still be seen by a gallente logi. why should an assault have more dampening than a min scout? you should always play to the strengths of your role, scout's being ewar, stealth and suprise.... assaults being good at ranged engagements and HP superiority. Commandos being supression and dual light weapon damage increase. Heavys being short range suppression and high damage Logis being support and tactical usage. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4367	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:23:00 - [16] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: scouts sacrifice those armour/speed modules for dampening.... a minmatar scout with dampeners has 80 armour.... and can still be seen by a gallente logi. why should an assault have more dampening than a min scout? He is trying to get active scanners on gallogis nerfed. I cannot see this resulting in anything but an unneeded buff to the cal and gal scouts. Neither of them need a buff. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 198	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:27:00 - [17] - Quote I would like to point out to the oP that the cal and gal scouts are invisible to gal scout with A PROTO CLOAK ACTIVE and 2 dampeners. This cloak is due to be nerfed further shortly, and while it is not active the scouts CAN be scanned. Only the gallente cannot be scanned without a cloak active, and that requires the usage of THREE slots for proto dampening, which is expensive on cpu AND hp survivability. The logi bonus does not need to be nerfed further, it is already one of the most underused suits in the game, is costly to use, much more so than dampening, and provides a fair and specialised bonus. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4367	Posted - 2014.11.03 15:47:00 - [18] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: I would like to point out to the oP that the cal and gal scouts are invisible to gal scout with A PROTO CLOAK ACTIVE and 2 dampeners. This cloak is due to be nerfed further shortly, and while it is not active the scouts CAN be scanned. Only the gallente cannot be scanned without a cloak active, and that requires the usage of THREE slots for proto dampening, which is expensive on cpu AND hp survivability. The logi bonus does not need to be nerfed further, it is already one of the most underused suits in the game, is costly to use, much more so than dampening, and provides a fair and specialised bonus. Oh my, a well-reasoned and logical post. Who would have thought we might see one of these in a scout discussion? Frightening isn't it? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5151	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:45:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: I would like to point out to the oP that the cal and gal scouts are invisible to gal scout with A PROTO CLOAK ACTIVE and 2 dampeners. This cloak is due to be nerfed further shortly, and while it is not active the scouts CAN be scanned. Only the gallente cannot be scanned without a cloak active, and that requires the usage of THREE slots for proto dampening, which is expensive on cpu AND hp survivability. The logi bonus does not need to be nerfed further, it is already one of the most underused suits in the game, is costly to use, much more so than dampening, and provides a fair and specialised bonus. Oh my, a well-reasoned and logical post. Who would have thought we might see one of these in a scout discussion? Frightening isn't it? Not to nitpick but it's invisible to anything with an ADV cloak. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.


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