DUST Search - the real problem with scouts.

Thokk Nightshade wrote:

maluble wrote:

Which brings me to the next issue, strafing and shooting makes 0 sence and you should be punished for it. Can something be implemented so that you're dispersion is off the charts when strafing?
I am fully aware its a game but as an avid shooter in real life it hurts my brain to see people strafe and shoot and get kills. Rifles for the most part are meant to be used in a stationary position to ensure accuracy.

I agree in the dispersion to an extent. Maybe increase dispersion by 25% if walking, and increase by 50% if running?

This needs to be applied to ALL suits, not just scouts however. We can't tell one suit "you have to stand still and shoot while everyone else gets to move around." I'm not sure if you are suggesting it across the board or just for scouts, but wanted to point that little piece out.

I know it isn't the easiest, but strafing/moving and shooting isn't entirely impossible. Give me an AR-15 and I can shoot and strafe at the same time with semi-decent proficiency. Just like shooting from the turret of a vehicle. Understand what the rounds are going to do and adjust accordingly.

Open-Beta Vet.
Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

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maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 139	Posted - 2014.10.31 20:15:00 - [1] - Quote Assault scouts that use rifles. It's ridiculous they have the smallest hit box and can stack hp. Which means at a distance they have an advantage cause their hard to hit and also in cqc because they strafe shoot. Which brings me to the next issue, strafing and shooting makes 0 sence and you should be punished for it. Can something be implemented so that you're dispersion is off the charts when strafing? I am fully aware its a game but as an avid shooter in real life it hurts my brain to see people strafe and shoot and get kills. Rifles for the most part are meant to be used in a stationary position to ensure accuracy. My proposal which is not a new one is to remove light weapons from scouts for they should be cqc fighters, and yes this included the shotgun for it has been abused by scouts for too long. As for the sniper its a stationary weapon and you dont wana be stationary in a scout suit for too long. By the way i have run scout for 2 years and ill tell you shotgun is easy mod knives take skill.
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 10022	Posted - 2014.10.31 20:22:00 - [2] - Quote There is already a thread on this. This thread is unnecessary. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.10.31 20:31:00 - [3] - Quote The issues abound when any discussion of scouts and imbalance begins. Nerf scouts. Thread by thread, piece by piece until they are the balanced warfighter everyone knows and loves. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1933	Posted - 2014.10.31 20:58:00 - [4] - Quote Actually, it's a bit of "nerf the way everyone else plays with my suit, but leave my way of knifing you alone & in fact, nobody should srafe when shooting they should stand still and become an even easier target for my knives". Good luck with that.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.10.31 21:23:00 - [5] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Actually, it's a bit of "nerf the way everyone else plays with my suit, but leave my way of knifing you alone & in fact, nobody should srafe when shooting they should stand still and become an even easier target for my knives". In short: If the problem is the shotgun is EZ mode, then why not make it less EZ mode rather than remove it entirely? But that's it. The problem is not with the shotgun itself, as the weapon was in this game a long time before it was obviously OP. What's really wrong with scouts, if I may be so bold, is that they are too good at too many things. Movement, hit box, equipment, speed, EWAR dominance (with lots of HP), the ability to bring massive amounts of alpha damage aided by the cloak, and shoddy hit detection in low framerate situations. To focus on only one of these (the shotgun) will not, IMO, solve the dominance of scouts will only shift the focus of scouts to the untouched elements of the scout's inherent advantages. Absolutely agreed. Nerf scouts. 10 million threads can't all be wrong. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Louis Domi Y.A.M.A.H 680	Posted - 2014.10.31 21:36:00 - [6] - Quote I'm telling you know If I lose my sniper... I don't give a **** about the other light weapons(have many dual sidearm fits that destroy) Shotguns are hella easy mode, but I feel like no matter what scouts should be able to equip snipers.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4270	Posted - 2014.10.31 21:39:00 - [7] - Quote Confirming that scouts have been living rent free in your head since 1.7. Damn freeloaders. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 646	Posted - 2014.10.31 22:49:00 - [8] - Quote maluble wrote: Which brings me to the next issue, strafing and shooting makes 0 sence and you should be punished for it. Can something be implemented so that you're dispersion is off the charts when strafing? I am fully aware its a game but as an avid shooter in real life it hurts my brain to see people strafe and shoot and get kills. Rifles for the most part are meant to be used in a stationary position to ensure accuracy. I agree in the dispersion to an extent. Maybe increase dispersion by 25% if walking, and increase by 50% if running? This needs to be applied to ALL suits, not just scouts however. We can't tell one suit "you have to stand still and shoot while everyone else gets to move around." I'm not sure if you are suggesting it across the board or just for scouts, but wanted to point that little piece out. I know it isn't the easiest, but strafing/moving and shooting isn't entirely impossible. Give me an AR-15 and I can shoot and strafe at the same time with semi-decent proficiency. Just like shooting from the turret of a vehicle. Understand what the rounds are going to do and adjust accordingly. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5255	Posted - 2014.10.31 23:46:00 - [9] - Quote Strafing is a problem. I think that should be the fix instead of simply fixing something that is not a problem (rifle dispersion when ADS at distance) but is taken advantage of because of the real problem, ie strafing with no inertia or acceleration. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 409	Posted - 2014.10.31 23:53:00 - [10] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: maluble wrote: Which brings me to the next issue, strafing and shooting makes 0 sence and you should be punished for it. Can something be implemented so that you're dispersion is off the charts when strafing? I am fully aware its a game but as an avid shooter in real life it hurts my brain to see people strafe and shoot and get kills. Rifles for the most part are meant to be used in a stationary position to ensure accuracy. I agree in the dispersion to an extent. Maybe increase dispersion by 25% if walking, and increase by 50% if running? This needs to be applied to ALL suits, not just scouts however. We can't tell one suit "you have to stand still and shoot while everyone else gets to move around." I'm not sure if you are suggesting it across the board or just for scouts, but wanted to point that little piece out. I know it isn't the easiest, but strafing/moving and shooting isn't entirely impossible. Give me an AR-15 and I can shoot and strafe at the same time with semi-decent proficiency. Just like shooting from the turret of a vehicle. Understand what the rounds are going to do and adjust accordingly. Actually I think an argument could be made that the heavier the suit, the better the dispersion while moving. Lights would be the worst, since their lack of mass fails to stabilize their weapon while they're moving on up to the heavies who would be the best at moving while firing in general. The balance is achievd potentially by the movement speed mechanic, the heavy is more stable but strafes much slower than the unstable but quickly sidestepping scout. Nerf scouts. So broadly there'll be no two-step dancing away from it. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 18	Posted - 2014.11.01 00:18:00 - [11] - Quote I agree in the dispersion to an extent. Maybe increase dispersion by 25% if walking, and increase by 50% if running? This needs to be applied to ALL suits, not just scouts however. We can't tell one suit "you have to stand still and shoot while everyone else gets to move around." I'm not sure if you are suggesting it across the board or just for scouts, but wanted to point that little piece out. I know it isn't the easiest, but strafing/moving and shooting isn't entirely impossible. Give me an AR-15 and I can shoot and strafe at the same time with semi-decent proficiency. Just like shooting from the turret of a vehicle. Understand what the rounds are going to do and adjust accordingly.[/quote] Actually I think an argument could be made that the heavier the suit, the better the dispersion while moving. Lights would be the worst, since their lack of mass fails to stabilize their weapon while they're moving on up to the heavies who would be the best at moving while firing in general. The balance is achieved potentially by the movement speed mechanic, the heavy is more stable but strafes much slower than the unstable but quickly sidestepping scout. Nerf scouts. So broadly there'll be no two-step dancing away from it.[/quote] I agree completely also medium and heavy suits strafe slower so it makes sense that the lower speed combo ed with bigger massed suit would lead to better aim while strafing Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
DDx77 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.11.01 01:15:00 - [12] - Quote The weird thing about scouts is that when I get shotgun'd, I get pissed off but if I get knifed I'm like "wow, he's so good at knives " I also hate when they pull a combat rifle and start dancing and although it looks like you landed some shots, in the kill feed is says they have 317 shields left The nerf to cloak should fix some of this as they will need to damp better to get close to you, but I don't think it does anything to brick tankers
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 26	Posted - 2014.11.01 01:32:00 - [13] - Quote DDx77 wrote: The weird thing about scouts is that when I get shotgun'd, I get pissed off but if I get knifed I'm like "wow, he's so good at knives " I also hate when they pull a combat rifle and start dancing and although it looks like you landed some shots, in the kill feed is says they have 317 shields left The nerf to cloak should fix some of this as they will need to damp better to get close to you, but I don't think it does anything to brick tankers I was killed last night by a Gal Scout, from cloak, who had 137 shields and 741 armkr... I didn't know that Scout could get that high... The little s*** was strafing and I just couldn't land a hit... I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5255	Posted - 2014.11.01 01:51:00 - [14] - Quote Lost Apollo wrote: DDx77 wrote: The weird thing about scouts is that when I get shotgun'd, I get pissed off but if I get knifed I'm like "wow, he's so good at knives " I also hate when they pull a combat rifle and start dancing and although it looks like you landed some shots, in the kill feed is says they have 317 shields left The nerf to cloak should fix some of this as they will need to damp better to get close to you, but I don't think it does anything to brick tankers I was killed last night by a Gal Scout, from cloak, who had 137 shields and 741 armkr... I didn't know that Scout could get that high... The little s*** was strafing and I just couldn't land a hit... This is why strafing needs fixed more than dispersion. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Lost Apollo RISE of LEGION 26	Posted - 2014.11.01 02:32:00 - [15] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Lost Apollo wrote: DDx77 wrote: The weird thing about scouts is that when I get shotgun'd, I get pissed off but if I get knifed I'm like "wow, he's so good at knives " I also hate when they pull a combat rifle and start dancing and although it looks like you landed some shots, in the kill feed is says they have 317 shields left The nerf to cloak should fix some of this as they will need to damp better to get close to you, but I don't think it does anything to brick tankers I was killed last night by a Gal Scout, from cloak, who had 137 shields and 741 armkr... I didn't know that Scout could get that high... The little s*** was strafing and I just couldn't land a hit... This is why strafing needs fixed more than dispersion. I have to completely agree. With the scouts suits small hitbox, it's incredibly hard to hit them when they're strafing due to their speed. I honestly don't think that if Scott should be able to strafe and take down a heavy with a submachinegun. I normally run logistics. I had a striping scout with a damn submachine gun take out me and a heavy. The heavy was using a heavy machine gun. The heavy died before I did and when the heavy went down I switched to my assault rifle. I landed just a few hits on a mini still had over 200 shields and over 300 health when I died. I was using the proto breach assault rifle. I am Caldari, but that does not mean I support our alliance with the Amarr..
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 05:04:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: There is already a thread on this. This thread is unnecessary. Srry I dont live on the forums
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 05:06:00 - [17] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: I'm telling you know If I lose my sniper... I don't give a **** about the other light weapons(have many dual sidearm fits that destroy) Shotguns are hella easy mode, but I feel like no matter what scouts should be able to equip snipers. Why ewar doesnt help at long range and your a one shot for anyone.
sir RAVEN WING Mors Effera 46	Posted - 2014.11.01 05:50:00 - [18] - Quote I happened to take down a scout at CQC, my AR vs his shotty. (Did I mention I shot him first while he was cloaked :D) Also I agree with the dispersion thing. Creative with guns
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 06:08:00 - [19] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Actually, it's a bit of "nerf the way everyone else plays with my suit, but leave my way of knifing you alone & in fact, nobody should srafe when shooting they should stand still and become an even easier target for my knives". In short: If the problem is the shotgun is EZ mode, then why not make it less EZ mode rather than remove it entirely? But that's it. The problem is not with the shotgun itself, as the weapon was in this game a long time before it was obviously OP. What's really wrong with scouts, if I may be so bold, is that they are too good at too many things. Movement, hit box, equipment, speed, EWAR dominance (with lots of HP), the ability to bring massive amounts of alpha damage aided by the cloak, and shoddy hit detection in low framerate situations. To focus on only one of these (the shotgun) will not, IMO, solve the dominance of scouts -- it will only shift the focus of scouts to the untouched elements of the scout's inherent advantages. If you had any amount of intelligence you would know scouts are not meant to be played like assaults so how is it wanting people to play the role like me? Scouts are meant for intel, quick hacks, quick uplink deployment and the occasional assasination. Not stacking 800 hp equipping a rifle and filling the role of assault. I could be wrong but I think we already have a suit for this called the assault suit (funny huh). Seriously leadfoot do you think before posting? Just because your able to play a scout like an assault doesn't make it right.
maluble Art.of.Death VP Gaming Alliance 140	Posted - 2014.11.01 06:13:00 - [20] - Quote Slave of MORTE wrote: I agree in the dispersion to an extent. Maybe increase dispersion by 25% if walking, and increase by 50% if running? This needs to be applied to ALL suits, not just scouts however. We can't tell one suit "you have to stand still and shoot while everyone else gets to move around." I'm not sure if you are suggesting it across the board or just for scouts, but wanted to point that little piece out. I know it isn't the easiest, but strafing/moving and shooting isn't entirely impossible. Give me an AR-15 and I can shoot and strafe at the same time with semi-decent proficiency. Just like shooting from the turret of a vehicle. Understand what the rounds are going to do and adjust accordingly. Actually I think an argument could be made that the heavier the suit, the better the dispersion while moving. Lights would be the worst, since their lack of mass fails to stabilize their weapon while they're moving on up to the heavies who would be the best at moving while firing in general. The balance is achieved potentially by the movement speed mechanic, the heavy is more stable but strafes much slower than the unstable but quickly sidestepping scout. Nerf scouts. So broadly there'll be no two-step dancing away from it.[/quote] I agree completely also medium and heavy suits strafe slower so it makes sense that the lower speed combo ed with bigger massed suit would lead to better aim while strafing[/quote] Try strafe shooting in real life while your heart rate is high like it would be in a combat scenario its very difficult you might land 2 shots out of a 30 round mag. I have put upwards of 5000 rounds through my ar amd have tested this with buddys and its a very difficult. Shooting well at the range doesn't translate to a real scenario even for a soldier.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4289	Posted - 2014.11.01 06:29:00 - [21] - Quote To the nub who mentioned adding 50% dispersion while running... You cannot run and fire. The game mechanics don't allow it and you already suck a dispersion penalty for firing on the move. The problem with scouts, for the thousandth time is there is no inertia attached to dropsuits, allowing one to make instant, no-momentum-loss direction changes which lwt one desync from hit detection because everything is done server side. Inertia pauses allow the server and enemy clients to catch up and register your correct location and keep you from desyncing hit detection. Assaults can do this too. Sentinels can do it to tanks, but that's not so much desync as exploiting the turret mechanics to your benefit. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 469	Posted - 2014.11.01 07:16:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: To the nub who mentioned adding 50% dispersion while running... You cannot run and fire. The game mechanics don't allow it and you already suck a dispersion penalty for firing on the move. The problem with scouts, for the thousandth time is there is no inertia attached to dropsuits, allowing one to make instant, no-momentum-loss direction changes which lwt one desync from hit detection because everything is done server side. Inertia pauses allow the server and enemy clients to catch up and register your correct location and keep you from desyncing hit detection. Assaults can do this too. Sentinels can do it to tanks, but that's not so much desync as exploiting the turret mechanics to your benefit. I completely agree with you. Today in a match, I faced a scout that moved so fast, I couldn't land more than a few hits. He killed me within seconds.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4289	Posted - 2014.11.01 07:47:00 - [23] - Quote If he was doing the side to side strafe dance he was breaking hit detection. If he was just moving fast he was speed tanking correctly. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


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